Author Topic: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..  (Read 50647 times)

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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« on: August 29, 2010, 07:36:39 pm »
I took the decision many weeks back to build my own ,
high quality resistor box " Decade "  , plus I liked to have other than reference resistor values,
and one reference DC source.

The resistors are Dale ( USA)  0.1% accuracy , or this is what the seller told me.

The DC reference chip are the Precision Reference LT1021 
Ultralow Drift: 5ppm/°C Max Slope
? Very Low Noise: <1ppm P-P (0.1Hz to 10Hz)
? 100% Noise Tested
Linear Technology Corporation
1630 McCarthy Blvd., Milpitas, CA 95035-7417
www.linear.com

( I had power it up with 5 coin type batteries 3Vx5=15V , so no matter the specs , there is no noise. )

The total cost got up to 120 EUR ,  with the addition of the seventh stage (extra new switch ) .

The upcome  its an truly perfect device .

Enjoy the pictures , as the words , are very poor to explain the amount of  work ,
that I had invest on it.   


The pictures will be divided in Topics.   
 
The following users thanked this post: 001

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 07:41:48 pm »
Topic 1 = Parts & Planning  



« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 10:35:27 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2010, 07:42:52 pm »
Topic 1 = Parts & Planning 
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 07:45:36 pm »
Topic 2= drilling   
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2010, 07:47:50 pm »
Topic 3=  Labels   
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2010, 07:51:55 pm »
Topic 4=  Assembly   

 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2010, 07:56:31 pm »
Topic 4=  Assembly   
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2010, 07:58:48 pm »
This is the last page of the primary presentation.    :)


I will be happy to answer any questions .   



« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 08:00:37 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline DavidDLC

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2010, 08:25:05 pm »
First question:

What do you use to print the Labels ?
 

Offline allanw

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2010, 08:59:08 pm »
That looks pretty professional. Good job!
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2010, 10:02:39 pm »
For the less ambitious, you can easily knock up an R box with a bunch of thumbwheel switches with the R's wired on the backs of the switches. 
With BCD thumbwheel switches, you can also do a cheap capacitance box
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2010, 11:15:04 pm »
First question:

What do you use to print the Labels ?


HP 970 Cxi  + 250 grm Glossy photo paper.   :)

( Legal Photoshop 7 )
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2010, 11:23:02 pm »
For the less ambitious, you can easily knock up an R box with a bunch of thumbwheel switches with the R's wired on the backs of the switches. 
With BCD thumbwheel switches, you can also do a cheap capacitance box

I had knowledge about it , before I start my project ,
as you had said , its for the less ambitious .
There is no space to it , for calibration = adding extra resistors so to correct possible imperfections.   
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2010, 03:43:55 am »
Just lovely!, thanks for sharing.

Dave.
 

alm

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2010, 04:56:01 am »
Very neat job!
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2010, 07:34:16 am »
I started building a resistance box but never finished.

Lol, I didn't think of connecting resistors in series like that, I used 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k, 5k resistors and made non-standard values by connecting resistors in series and parallel and I'm pretty embarrassed I didn't think of connecting them in series, which would've been easier.

 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2010, 10:33:10 am »
Nice work. :)


All is ok for this accuracy class what was designed, I think.

----------------------------------------------

But then one small question and some freestyle thinking around it:

"( I had power it up with 5 coin type batteries 3Vx5=15V , so no matter the specs , there is no noise. ) "

What is this meaning? You mean that reference power 15V have "not noise"? Yes in this accuracy class we can think that it (battery) have "no noise". (yes there are noise but not meaningful for this purpose)

But then, you tell that "no matter about specs , there is no noise." Do you mean that output of V ref have not noise becouse power V have very low noise? This is absolutely not truth afaik. (yes noise is "low" and not meaningful in your use but there is LOT of noise and many kind of noise what need take count if use these kind of reference chips for other purpose where need high accuracy and low noise level)

This datasheet specified noise is noise what reference chip itself made with "clean" power and isolated so that any other noise sources are eliminated.. (also trim resistors noise)

Chip itself noise is around 6 uV p-p between 0.1 - 10Hz and careful with specs. As note 6 explain... it have measured only 10second period. (yes it is "maybe" enough but... this "flicker" noise (aka 1/f noise) is very random. What about 0.01 - 0.1Hz noise? They do not tell anything  but it really do not mean that there are no.

I know this reference is very good for you purpose and meet maybe all needs. I do NOT make any question about it for you needs. I think it is ok for normal handheld DVM check and specially if have some posibility to adjust it one time with good reference (if want more accuracy than factory "initial" accuracy.


----------------------


I want only "take this on the table" becouse I did not understand this:  "( I had power it up with 5 coin type batteries 3Vx5=15V , so no matter the specs , there is no noise. ) " and also becouse making good (high-end) voltage reference is extremely difficult case. So if someone want make very accurate voltage reference then need read extremely careful these manufactures specs... (they tell only these values what they like...  and also there are full mix of ways how to tell these... comparation between different voltage references are very very difficult if read only datasheets. Noise is one big difficult and other is long time stability and also thermal stability and thermal hysteresis. Every manufacturer measure and tell these things so that comparation is very difficult in real life. Only road is nearly so that need buy all and test with same methods and compare then. Long time stability example... they tell that typical 1000hrs 15ppm (non cumulative) then note 7 "consult factory for long term stability data... oh yes very clever not publish it on datasheet.   Next 1000hrs is maybe 0.7 x 15 (typical) and next maybe 0.57 x 15 and so on... this is not cumulative... it is "square root rule".

This is NOT negative opinion about your project. My opinion is on the first row of this message.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 10:38:17 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2010, 11:48:12 am »
...err shouldn't that last switch be labelled either 100m? or 0.1?, not 0.1m?....?

And the wiring looks quite thin for a box going down that low.
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Offline jimmc

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2010, 04:33:01 pm »
Very professional looking job.

I confess that I had never heard of a 'WAIDNER-WOLFF DECADE' before seeing your post.
Are there some resistors missing from your parts list?
I cannot understand how this works without non-decade resistor values.

I found this reference
http://www.isotechna.com/v/vspfiles/pdf_other/journal-2.2.pdf (starting about half way down page 18)
helpful in my understanding of the theory.

Jim
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2010, 06:07:49 pm »

But then, you tell that "no matter about specs , there is no noise." Do you mean that output of V ref have not noise becouse power V have very low noise? This is absolutely not truth afaik. (yes noise is "low" and not meaningful in your use but there is LOT of noise and many kind of noise what need take count if use these kind of reference chips for other purpose where need high accuracy and low noise level)


Thanks for your message , I am not specialist so to get in-depth about the called noise effect,
but I have do my homework over the years  and  the " Noise" it could be an friend on enemy ,
and this depends from the application.

At the current design " reference stabilization circuitry " , the hostile " Noise " are the one who cames in from the converted AC  to DC .
In theory the " stabilization circuitry " , it should be able to suppress " filter " the input source,
so to help it even more, at becoming " Clear and stable " .
I know that I am not saying anything new up to here .

I agree that in any conversion , we have unwanted factors , like a bit of extra noise or heat.
But the major question are :
Does this amount of side-effects  haves an negative influence in our circuitry ?
And the answer comes by it self ,  by looking at what this design it will be connected with .

The " Noise " as cause , its the major enemy  of any circuity used at modulating acoustic frequency.
Like  pre-amplifiers  and  broadcast systems ( example the FM band transmitter ).

If you are happy , with my new description like ....  " this circuitry its an (Very Very)  Low-noise one "
then I have no reason to defend it , as we all do agree on that.   :)       

Personally, I have so much faith to it , that I did not add any capacitor on it , as extra filtering  ;) 

Additionally .. 
In praxis  the Reference LT1021 stabilizes to 10V  with just  10.48 volts as input voltage.
The white paper suggests  12V  stabilized input voltage ,  and I have add 15 V ..
The schematic  says that any voltage above the 12V  it will cause an small drift .

So I will remove as test, one battery from the chain , and test to see if the Fluke 87-5 it will detect the change, as an perfect  10.0.0.0.  volt indication.  :)   
 

 
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2010, 06:18:36 pm »
...err shouldn't that last switch be labelled either 100m? or 0.1?, not 0.1m?....?

 ;D  I had 50 Greeks electronics engineers ( on another forum ) debating on that ... about the ultra correct description.

And no one win ...  ;D

So we ended up to agree , that we have to accept the labeling on the resistor as guide.
Its an  0.10 Ohm  ones ,    equals to  9 X 0.10  = 0.90 Ohm  =  1 Ohm minus  0.10 mOhm  :)


And the wiring looks quite thin for a box going down that low.

This is an  copper wire with silver at 1mm ,  more than enough  for an low current circuitry,
like  0-250 mA  .
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2010, 06:28:13 pm »
I cannot understand how this works without non-decade resistor values.

Jim

The word "decade"  are explained as the  number ten .

Example ....  10 + 10 + 10    or  100 + 100 + 100 .. the base number  are always the number ten.

So by my understanding , the current resistor values , they are " Decade  compatible ",
if there is an such an term .    :)  


Quote
Are there some resistors missing from your parts list?

The 1 Ohm value its at the bottom left  ( got this from another seller )  :)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 06:36:00 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2010, 06:40:24 pm »
Just lovely!, thanks for sharing.

Dave.

Thanks Dave , I did my best for my age ...  ;D

 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2010, 07:43:59 pm »
As my opinion before. You reference is well good in this purpose (example with this fluke).
Fluke last digit is 1000 uV if measure 10V ;)
For this kind of needs this your reference is ok.

Backround for my message before: This time I try fight with 0.1 - 1uV at 10V. This is "littlebit" different case. ;)
Many weeks I have think that I need stop fighting. But also it is interesting to find new things to learn. So I do not stop yet.




If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline jimmc

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Re: Resistors Decade box - How to - Photo story ..
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2010, 08:32:14 pm »
Sorry for my poor explanation.

If you are using a 'Waidner-Wolff' arrangement for the 0.1ohm decade, then if the shunt resistor is 1ohm, the resistor values around the switch are not all the same value but need to be (ohms):

0,    0.111, 0.139, 0.179, 0.238 ,0.333, 0.500, 0.833, 1.667, 5.000, open

to get a combined resistance of:

0,    0.1,    0.2,     0.3,    0.4,    0.5,    0.6,    0.7,     0.8,    0.9,    1.0


Jim
 


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