EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: msr on June 29, 2015, 09:32:01 am

Title: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: msr on June 29, 2015, 09:32:01 am
Hi,

Can you recommend me a cheap RF module with minimum range (LOS) of 1km and capable of transmitting (low quality) audio (preferably in real-time).
The idea is to implement a kind-of walkie talkie.

Thanks!
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: retrolefty on June 29, 2015, 12:37:59 pm
Hi,

Can you recommend me a cheap RF module with minimum range (LOS) of 1km and capable of transmitting (low quality) audio (preferably in real-time).
The idea is to implement a kind-of walkie talkie.

Thanks!

Commercial or one off self use?
Licensed or non-licensed in your country?

 Without knowing your legal options it's hard to recommend a frequency, antenna requirement, and power level required to meet a specific LOS specification.

Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: msr on June 29, 2015, 01:23:16 pm
Ok, thanks for the questions!
Licensed, worldwide preferably. (433MHz?)
Not sure about power level but it would be nice no have a PCB/chip antenna in one terminal and a bigger one on the other one.

The purpose of the system is to be used during sports classes, so the practitioner can carry a light and non-obtrusive terminal, and the teacher could have the bigger one.
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: tonyarkles on June 30, 2015, 02:32:19 am
This may seem too obvious but... would a cellphone work?

For other approaches, you're probably going to quickly run into power limitations for unlicensed bands. 1km is a decently long range to meet while also respecting power level limits.
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: BennVenn on June 30, 2015, 02:47:15 am
Aliexpress sells 433mhz RF modules with audio + serial data links. From 0.5Watt up to 5Watt modules. Was looking at a pair then found a cheap 40ch UHF walkie talkie pair for $20 which had the same module in them at an opp shop
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: NiHaoMike on June 30, 2015, 06:42:00 am
Would directional antennas work for your application? If so, that would help greatly reduce power requirements.
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: LDM on June 30, 2015, 11:30:25 am
Does the fact that you are looking for an "RF module" mean that this is to be built into a product?
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: Alexei.Polkhanov on July 01, 2015, 05:59:57 am
I you want something working then you can look for Chinese models branded as "Senao" - they work up to 5 km and can be anywhere from $50 to $300. Sometimes these are sold under "EnGenius" brand.

Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: vk3yedotcom on July 01, 2015, 11:00:35 am
If you can elevate the tx module and have a good quality FM receiver, you can get over 1km with 433 MHz UHF data modules.

 It was initially a challenge to get good audio but messing around with bias got good results.

In some cases your range may be limited by other low power devices on the same frequency. 

433.92 MHz seems to be fairly popular.  However you can vary the frequency slightly, which in conjunction with a NBFM receiver, may reduce interference.

Here's a 7 part video series (and suburban range test) done earlier this year. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg61DsYLp_0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg61DsYLp_0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMIIh4sCeE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMIIh4sCeE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNG7br4zcJU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNG7br4zcJU)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR5WNbspIKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR5WNbspIKI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57HIvGXePD0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57HIvGXePD0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL1HnjDvT1Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL1HnjDvT1Q)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=was7PYrRPkI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=was7PYrRPkI)

Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: LaserSteve on July 01, 2015, 02:27:24 pm
Remember 433.950 is not for continuous wave transmission without a amateur radio license.

Part 15 / license free devices on 390 and  430 Mhz have a limited duty cycle world wide.  Unless you like the idea of jamming key fobs for cars.

As my car depends on a rolling code locking strategy, I'd prefer not to be jammed, please.


Steve
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: vk3yedotcom on July 01, 2015, 07:48:59 pm
Remember 433.950 is not for continuous wave transmission without a amateur radio license.

Part 15 / license free devices on 390 and  430 Mhz have a limited duty cycle world wide.  Unless you like the idea of jamming key fobs for cars.

Part 15 is an FCC rule relevant to the USA but different countries have different rules. 

In some countries these items are referred to as short range devices. 

In Australia the relevant document is the Low Interference Potential Devices Class Licence. 

Amateurs don't like them due to interference with 70cm repeaters, but our LIPD rules appear to have fewer restrictions than the equivalent in some other countries. 

Read up on the relevant document for your country as they may vary from the FCC rules.
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: Kalvin on July 01, 2015, 08:15:37 pm
How about some walkie talkie modules? They should be free from continous transmission limits.
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: jeroen79 on July 01, 2015, 10:59:59 pm
Hi,

Can you recommend me a cheap RF module with minimum range (LOS) of 1km and capable of transmitting (low quality) audio (preferably in real-time).
The idea is to implement a kind-of walkie talkie.

Thanks!
Why not get an off the shelf walkie talkie?
You can get 466 MHz units with 8 channels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMR446

You could also look around for radio's used by motorcycle schools.
These do what you described:
Quote
The purpose of the system is to be used during sports classes, so the practitioner can carry a light and non-obtrusive terminal, and the teacher could have the bigger one.
Can you elaborate?
What kind of sport(s)?
What is the maximum size and weight for the sporter's receiver?
Why would the instructor have a bigger terminal?
A 466 MHz walkie talkie can be worn on a belt (or elsewhere on the body) with an earplug in the sporter's ear.
Same for the instructor except he may need a push to talk button as well.

Do you want to develope this so that you can sell it as a new product?
Or do you want something to use in a local sportsclub?
Title: Re: RF module for audio transmission
Post by: msr on July 20, 2015, 03:49:33 pm
What kind of sport(s)?
What is the maximum size and weight for the sporter's receiver?
Why would the instructor have a bigger terminal?
A 466 MHz walkie talkie can be worn on a belt (or elsewhere on the body) with an earplug in the sporter's ear.
Same for the instructor except he may need a push to talk button as well.

Do you want to develope this so that you can sell it as a new product?
Or do you want something to use in a local sportsclub?

Watersports (bodyboard, surf...).
Maximum size and weight: something that can be placed inside an helmet and not too heavy so that it's still comfortable to use.
This is something to use in a local sportsclub.
Im currently having bodyboarding classes and we need to get out of water, after catching waves, to receive instructions from the teacher. That would be nice to avoid that specially when there are rip currents and it's hard to get in again :)