Author Topic: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?  (Read 5804 times)

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Offline spec

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2018, 06:45:02 pm »
We are all just wasting our time shooting in the dark.
@SpannersToSparks has not (can not?, will not?) reveal what his mystery load is.
So we can posit guesses forever and never get anywhere.   :horse:

If that cryptic (and useless) "requirement" is all that the vendor will issue, then I don't see how we can help?

Yes, we could use more information, but I suggest that there is sufficient information to propose an approach.

The only thing I can see that is missing is the current consumption. Specifically, what do you see is missing?
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2018, 07:02:06 pm »
Maybe the solution calls for a solid state power supply.  >:D

That is correct and what the OP suggested in his opening post. Except he was considering using a switch mode PSU  which would require extensive filtering to subdue the switching transients.

I am therefore hinting at a linear power supply, say of 10A peak capacity feeding high value electrolytic capacitors to supply the large gulps of current, like a car battery. But also to bypass the electrolytic capacitors with high frequency low ESR capacitors to provide a low impedance and high current capacity across the frequency spectrum.

That way you would have better current capacity than a battery, in the sense of this application, with the absolute voltage stabilization of a solid state regulated supply.

The techniques for doing this are not difficult. One essential requirement is to use hefty conductors and star point wiring- all pretty standard stuff.
I agree that capacitors are good for reducing the AC impedance of a battery, but don't think a regulator is required, as the voltage range of the equipment is so wide.

If noise is the problem, then you can't beat batteries. Even adding a linear regulator to the battery could increase the noise, so there's no reason to have one.
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2018, 07:15:36 pm »
Rock Solid is actually a darned good name for, what else? A Classic-Rock cover group.
 

Offline In Vacuo Veritas

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2018, 07:24:28 pm »
Rock Solid is actually a darned good name for, what else? A Classic-Rock cover group.

I think you mean

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocksteady
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2018, 07:30:12 pm »
Maybe the solution calls for a solid state power supply.  >:D

That is correct and what the OP suggested in his opening post. Except he was considering using a switch mode PSU  which would require extensive filtering to subdue the switching transients.

I am therefore hinting at a linear power supply, say of 10A peak capacity feeding high value electrolytic capacitors to supply the large gulps of current, like a car battery. But also to bypass the electrolytic capacitors with high frequency low ESR capacitors to provide a low impedance and high current capacity across the frequency spectrum.

That way you would have better current capacity than a battery, in the sense of this application, with the absolute voltage stabilization of a solid state regulated supply.

The techniques for doing this are not difficult. One essential requirement is to use hefty conductors and star point wiring- all pretty standard stuff.

The op says it is an SoC current running from a power brick and with the wide voltage spec
it almost certainly has switching regulators. Building something to power it that would make an
audiophoole think it might be too much is taking overkill to the extreme


 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2018, 07:31:43 pm »
The only thing I can see that is missing is the current consumption.
Yes. Both steady-state and startup-surge (depending on what the mystery load is?)

Quote
Specifically, what do you see is missing?
Besides current requirement, if we knew what the mystery load is, we could at least make some educated second-guesses about the likely requirements in the absence of anything useful from the vendor. 

We could even suggest some tests that @SpannersToSparks could conduct to characterize how the mystery load behaves.

With a good photo, we might even make a cursory determination of how power is handled (internally regulated?) etc.
 

Offline spec

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2018, 07:41:47 pm »
The only thing I can see that is missing is the current consumption.
Yes. Both steady-state and startup-surge (depending on what the mystery load is?)

Quote
Specifically, what do you see is missing?
Besides current requirement, if we knew what the mystery load is, we could at least make some educated second-guesses about the likely requirements in the absence of anything useful from the vendor. 

We could even suggest some tests that @SpannersToSparks could conduct to characterize how the mystery load behaves.

With a good photo, we might even make a cursory determination of how power is handled (internally regulated?) etc.

I agree, but have you thought of one thing- the OP might not want to publish details of the equipment. I could think of many situations where this might apply. I suggest that we should try to help as much as possible.

I still say that there is sufficient information to formulate a design, even if it is just an outline.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2018, 07:47:43 pm »
The only thing I can see that is missing is the current consumption.
Yes. Both steady-state and startup-surge (depending on what the mystery load is?)

Quote
Specifically, what do you see is missing?
Besides current requirement, if we knew what the mystery load is, we could at least make some educated second-guesses about the likely requirements in the absence of anything useful from the vendor. 

We could even suggest some tests that @SpannersToSparks could conduct to characterize how the mystery load behaves.

With a good photo, we might even make a cursory determination of how power is handled (internally regulated?) etc.

I agree, but have you thought of one thing- the OP might not want to publish details of the equipment. I could think of many situations where this might apply. I suggest that we should try to help as much as possible.

I still say that there is sufficient information to formulate a design, even if it is just an outline.

There is indeed "sufficient information to formulate a design" - but not with any confidence that it would be suitable for the OP.  In fact there is sufficient information to formulate a very wide range of designs!

If the OP doesn't want to give us sufficient information to help him, there's a good argument he shouldn't waste our time in the first place :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline spec

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2018, 07:50:44 pm »
Because it is highly sensitive to fluctuation, even though it has a wide operating range. It has a lot of expensive sensitive components I guess.

You are not alone in asking that question, but the manufacturer assures me stability is paramount, even if they seem to be singularly unwilling to advise me how to achieve that (liability I guess)  : (

Has anybody read this?
 

Offline spec

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2018, 07:53:36 pm »
The only thing I can see that is missing is the current consumption.
Yes. Both steady-state and startup-surge (depending on what the mystery load is?)

Quote
Specifically, what do you see is missing?
Besides current requirement, if we knew what the mystery load is, we could at least make some educated second-guesses about the likely requirements in the absence of anything useful from the vendor. 

We could even suggest some tests that @SpannersToSparks could conduct to characterize how the mystery load behaves.

With a good photo, we might even make a cursory determination of how power is handled (internally regulated?) etc.

I agree, but have you thought of one thing- the OP might not want to publish details of the equipment. I could think of many situations where this might apply. I suggest that we should try to help as much as possible.

I still say that there is sufficient information to formulate a design, even if it is just an outline.

There is indeed "sufficient information to formulate a design" - but not with any confidence that it would be suitable for the OP.  In fact there is sufficient information to formulate a very wide range of designs!

If the OP doesn't want to give us sufficient information to help him, there's a good argument he shouldn't waste our time in the first place :)
In that case why are you wasting your time on this thread :-//
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:56:19 pm by spec »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2018, 08:53:18 pm »
Because it is highly sensitive to fluctuation, even though it has a wide operating range. It has a lot of expensive sensitive components I guess.

You are not alone in asking that question, but the manufacturer assures me stability is paramount, even if they seem to be singularly unwilling to advise me how to achieve that (liability I guess)  : (

Has anybody read this?

Yes - and other people have correctly indicated it contains no usable information.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2018, 09:00:51 pm »
The only thing I can see that is missing is the current consumption.
Yes. Both steady-state and startup-surge (depending on what the mystery load is?)

Quote
Specifically, what do you see is missing?
Besides current requirement, if we knew what the mystery load is, we could at least make some educated second-guesses about the likely requirements in the absence of anything useful from the vendor. 

We could even suggest some tests that @SpannersToSparks could conduct to characterize how the mystery load behaves.

With a good photo, we might even make a cursory determination of how power is handled (internally regulated?) etc.

I agree, but have you thought of one thing- the OP might not want to publish details of the equipment. I could think of many situations where this might apply. I suggest that we should try to help as much as possible.

I still say that there is sufficient information to formulate a design, even if it is just an outline.

There is indeed "sufficient information to formulate a design" - but not with any confidence that it would be suitable for the OP.  In fact there is sufficient information to formulate a very wide range of designs!

If the OP doesn't want to give us sufficient information to help him, there's a good argument he shouldn't waste our time in the first place :)
In that case why are you wasting your time on this thread :-//

Trying to coax the OP into giving sufficient information that we might be able to help him.

What are you doing with that question?
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline spec

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Re: Good cheap way to get rock solid 12V DC output?
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2018, 07:09:16 am »
Thanks for pointing all that out- my bad. :palm:

 


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