Sick of Apple chargers? Solution: SupperCharger+, the Next Generation

[SharpEars]

How to fast charge your phone:
1. Throw iPhone in the rubbish.
2. Buy a Samsung Galaxy S6

The charger is 18w.
Runs 5V @ 2A unless it detects that it is plugged into an S6, then steps it up to 9V @ 2A.


<<<Exits quickly before the flaming starts...

And if I were to buy a Galaxy S6, I would be looking for ways to charge that faster. You see, the phone and charger ultimately don't matter when you want to charge as quickly as possible - the chargers all suck, because they're two dollars worth of parts pieces of crap being sold to you for tens of dollars.

[SharpEars]

I have empirically tested this and in fact it does increase the current until a cutoff voltage is seen at the device being charged. There is a built in safety mechanism that cuts the current at a certain, let's call it, overvoltage, a sort of OVP.

5.30 is well below the OVP and within the guidelines of correct and acceptable USB voltage.

I'm not ragging on you and I'm not being negative. I'm actually genuinely interested in the figures. Have you actually measured this and what sort of current increase are you seeing (in actual numbers)?
What you say makes perfect sense from a logic perspective. I'm actually interested in the hard data to see *how* much of a speedup this will give you? (and me if I build one).

I have the iPad 3, which happens to be the unit with the longest charge time, so anything greater than 10% increase I'd find interesting.

The current does increase. I will post the actual figures for various (Apple) devices and maybe even an Android device or three when the project is complete.

[SharpEars]

I've finalized my choice of power supply and it's costing me just south of $25 (each, I bought two). Remember, I need to be able to charge two 2.4 A devices at once at 5.3 volts, so the PS has to be up to the task. The reason I got two supplies (so capability to charge four devices total), was so that I can keep one at home and one at work.

Now, after reading this far and pondering my crazy requirements, I am sure you are all wondering what an OCD freak like me got for the power supply. Feel free to post guesses and I will post more info over the weekend when I have the items in possession and I make some measurements to prove to myself that I made a good decision. (Pics will be up in any case, since I promised to keep you all abreast of my progress).

[amyk]

How much does the current increase? In other words, what's the input impedance?

LiPo batteries are charged with CC, followed by CV. The CC part of the charging curve is really current-regulated and raising the input voltage is, if the charger is a linear regulator, just going to cause it to dissipate more power - the current into the battery won't increase.

[rs20]

LiPo batteries are charged with CC, followed by CV. The CC part of the charging curve is really current-regulated and raising the input voltage is, if the charger is a linear regulator, just going to cause it to dissipate more power - the current into the battery won't increase.

You're assuming that with a voltage of 5V at the charger, the phone is actually limited by that CC current. I dare say that's a completely unfounded assumption (and seemingly disproved by the OP's assertion that the current does increase) -- phones compliant with standard X (I forget the name) will look for voltage sag from the charger as an indication that the charger is at its limit, and will be current limited by the charger instead, i.e. charging current = min(LiPo CC, charger capability).

[jwm_]

Anker's chargers will bump the voltage up above 5 depending on current draw to speed up charging and account for sag in the line. I have been quite happy with mine. They also "do the right thing" so that most any device detects it as a fast charger and draws full current.

http://www.ianker.com/poweriq

[Mr.B]

How to fast charge your phone:
1. Throw iPhone in the rubbish.
2. Buy a Samsung Galaxy S6

The charger is 18w.
Runs 5V @ 2A unless it detects that it is plugged into an S6, then steps it up to 9V @ 2A.


<<<Exits quickly before the flaming starts...

And if I were to buy a Galaxy S6, I would be looking for ways to charge that faster. You see, the phone and charger ultimately don't matter when you want to charge as quickly as possible - the chargers all suck, because they're two dollars worth of parts pieces of crap being sold to you for tens of dollars.

Well, I started off trying to offer something constructive - see my first post in this thread.
The above post is just in jest, I own both Apple and Samsung devices, and do not have serious complaints about any of them.
However, you appear to just be a troll.

What makes you think you can "trick" a phone into charging fast enough to suit your narrow minded objectives?
You said "And if I were to buy a Galaxy S6, I would be looking for ways to charge that faster."
I am sure that the engineers at both Apple and Samsung are consistently being told by the marketing wankers "Make that phone charge to at least 50% in 3.1 seconds", while the engineers think to themselves "Get fucking real!".
So nothing delivered by companies with billions of dollars of research budget would be good enough for you?
You think you can do better?
Dick.

Edit: Sorry, I withdraw that... i don't want the mods to ban me... I like this forum too much.

[Ian.M]

Get a phone with easily interchangable batteries + a spare battery then hack a camera battery charger to match the terminals on the phone battery.   Charging the phone now takes under a minute!   

Incidentally,I suggest editing the topic title to "Sick of Apple?".  If you don't like the behaviour/performance, don't buy the kit! 

Good LiPO batteries can reach 250Wh/Kg.  Current Supercapacitors reach 30Wh/Kg. so an 'instant' charging phone would have to be much bigger.  Also high current circuits need more copper, bigger caps, more ferrite in inductor cores, more silicon area and of course far more geatsinking so there wold be a knock-on effect on the size of the rest of the phone.   If you have the funding to commission the design from any leading phone manufacturer, an 'instant' charging phone could be on the market by Christmas, but it would be the size and weight of half a house brick and would need direct connection to a car battery's terminals  for 15 seconds to charge it! 

[SharpEars]

Well, I started off trying to offer something constructive - see my first post in this thread.
The above post is just in jest, I own both Apple and Samsung devices, and do not have serious complaints about any of them.
However, you appear to just be a troll.

I also own both Apple and Samsung devices, as I stated previously, and I can assure you that I am not trolling on this issue.

What makes you think you can "trick" a phone into charging fast enough to suit your narrow minded objectives?
You said "And if I were to buy a Galaxy S6, I would be looking for ways to charge that faster."
I am sure that the engineers at both Apple and Samsung are consistently being told by the marketing wankers "Make that phone charge to at least 50% in 3.1 seconds", while the engineers think to themselves "Get fucking real!".
So nothing delivered by companies with billions of dollars of research budget would be good enough for you?
You think you can do better?
Dick.

Edit: Sorry, I withdraw that... i don't want the mods to ban me... I like this forum too much.

OK, now let's talk about your about quote, minus the name and troll calling. The object of a company is to make money. If they can build a 2 dollar charger that fits the bill and sell it for $29 (the 12W charger's original price), more power to them! Also, I have measured the actual voltage output of the Apple 12W adapter and it puts out 5.1 V with no load and just over 5V with a 2A load, an empirical statement rather than pointless blabbing and theory crafting. Having in addition to this measured the current draw of my iPad Air (Air 1 in this case) to increase as the voltage is increased up to and including 5.3 V I have empirically shown that it behooves to charge at said voltage, assuming of course that the increase in current is actually an increase in battery charging current. This is the only assumption in the equation and I have no reason to believe otherwise. That is, I cannot believe that the charging circuit in the device which already intelligently controls the amount of current that the device draws would draw more current at slightly higher voltages only to dissipate it as heat.

Having said that, it is foolish to think that a tiny little device the size of the Apple charger and costing $2 to build can perform on the level of a $10,000 Laboratory Power Supply with voltage sense wires for proper load regulation (not to mention my more dubious, for purposes of this discussion (i.e., charging time), statement regarding ripple characteristics). Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I want to spend $10k on the power supply, my budget was $300.

Also, after setting a limit for myself of $300 for the power supply, I am going to spend $25 (less than 10% of the amount I budgeted) as I have stated in a previous reply, a cost that is not that much more than the Apple charger. Of course there will be additional parts, but those will be (even in sum) relatively cheap in comparison. Additionally, the power supply will be able to charge two devices concurrently at max charging current. This would require a $19+$19=$38+Tax=$41 investment from Apple.

Why am I only spending $25 on the power supply when I budgeted $300? Well that's the most interesting question at the current state of the project, but then nobody made any recommendations for power supplies on the forum, so I was kind of on my own here.

I am still curious as to whether I made a good decision on the power supply and am open to hearing recommendations to compare and contrast with my choice (costing up to and including $1,000).

[SharpEars]

Get a phone with easily interchangable batteries + a spare battery then hack a camera battery charger to match the terminals on the phone battery.   Charging the phone now takes under a minute!   

Incidentally,I suggest editing the topic title to "Sick of Apple?".  If you don't like the behaviour/performance, don't buy the kit! 

Good LiPO batteries can reach 250Wh/Kg.  Current Supercapacitors reach 30Wh/Kg. so an 'instant' charging phone would have to be much bigger.  Also high current circuits need more copper, bigger caps, more ferrite in inductor cores, more silicon area and of course far more geatsinking so there wold be a knock-on effect on the size of the rest of the phone.   If you have the funding to commission the design from any leading phone manufacturer, an 'instant' charging phone could be on the market by Christmas, but it would be the size and weight of half a house brick and would need direct connection to a car battery's terminals  for 15 seconds to charge it! 

I'm fine with the kit sans the charger(s). It is not an all or nothing proposition - there are multiple pieces in play (i.e., the device, the cord and the wall charger).
Also, back at reality ranch, , I am just looking for a slight reduction in charging time on the order of 6-8% here, not miracles. So, I don't see why there is all this negativity .

[Jeroen3]

I'd assume Apple incorporated advanced battery controls. Because when I had the battery of my iPhone 3gs replaced it completely fooled around with the remaining %.  Shutting of at 30 and not charging to 100.
Somewhere some set of parameters would need a reset. I would be interested to know how many mAh's go into the iphone. Someone able to measure that?
You can charge the iPhone turned off by inserting the charger before switching off.

The actual cable of Apple also performs some power quality checking. The two chips in there are not only for cable DRM.

[Melt-O-Tronic]

It would be pretty simple to set up your lab power supply to meet the specs of your "SupperCharger+" idea.  Log the data and compare to a charge with one of the devices that upsets you.  Just make sure you have the same starting state-of-charge for each test.

Then you'll know whether you have a viable concept.

[SharpEars]

It would be pretty simple to set up your lab power supply to meet the specs of your "SupperCharger+" idea.  Log the data and compare to a charge with one of the devices that upsets you.  Just make sure you have the same starting state-of-charge for each test.

Then you'll know whether you have a viable concept.

I think an even better test would be to time a 0-100% charge, first with the 12W wall charger and then with a well regulated 5.3 V supply (with the USB D+/D- pins fixed at 2.7 V to make the device think it is being charged from a 12W wall charger).

[Melt-O-Tronic]

Is there an echo in here?   

[JacquesBBB]

This is my power supply for USB charging.

It has 4 outputs
Voltmeter,
Ammeter
switch

It is a reconditioned Sunray light terminal from the dumpster. I shorted a resistor to get 5.20 V instead of 5.00V
All parts, except  the meters come from the board itself.
It is well regulated.
I put a small daughter board to get the proper voltage on D+ and D- to get  2A charging mode on Apple stuff.
As it is, it is charging an IPAD 2, A Galaxy note,  another  android device, and a charging bank.

[suicidaleggroll]

Also, in answer to this having a detrimental affect on the battery being charged, it's all within spec, the USB 3.0 spec (max VBUS voltage is 5.3 V), so Apple has to have allowed for this and I will be just taking advantage of it.

What makes you think that just because the manufacturer allows it to function in that condition, that it's not ultimately detrimental or harmful to the product?  There are a TON of things you can do to a phone that will damage it, that the manufacturer doesn't explicitly block.  Compensating for a voltage drop in the cable is one thing, but purposely over-driving the input to try to trick the phone into charging faster than it's designed for it just dumb.

Have you even bothered to think about why they limit the maximum charging current?  Hint: it's not to piss you off.  I can practically guarantee you that if the marketing department didn't have a say in the matter, the engineers designing the phone would have limited the charging current even more than they already have to give the battery a longer lifetime.

I for one don't want a faster charger.  I don't even like charging my phone at the normal max charging current.  I'll do it if I have to, but most of the time I'm not in a rush, so I'll use a 500mA port on a computer to give it a nice slow charge.  I'm all for faster charging, but only after battery technology has improved enough to allow it without long term damage.

[JacquesBBB]

You will not  decrease the charging time by increasing the voltage of the  USB port.
The battery is not charged with the USB voltage. There is a regulator  between the USB port and the battery.
There is no way you can change the regulator behavior.

On the other hand, I noticed that if you are slightly below 5.0 V,  it will use much more amps from the PSU,
probably  get at the end the same power. This is why i preferred to be a little bit above 5V than below 5V,
It allows to  charge more devices from the same source, but  I  do not think it will charge faster any of the devices.


Edit :This is wrong.  See below.

[SharpEars]

This is my power supply for USB charging.

It has 4 outputs
Voltmeter,
Ammeter
switch

It is a reconditioned Sunray light terminal from the dumpster. I shorted a resistor to get 5.20 V instead of 5.00V
All parts, except  the meters come from the board itself.
It is well regulated.
I put a small daughter board to get the proper voltage on D+ and D- to get  2A charging mode on Apple stuff.
As it is, it is charging an IPAD 2, A Galaxy note,  another  android device, and a charging bank.

image omitted...

Now here is a kindred spirit! I tried doing the same thing with an old ATX power supply, but the power regulation was horrible. It started out at something like 5.76V and then dropped below 5V with the slightest load - complete crap. This also made creating a constant 2.7 V for the D+/D- via a ladder divider impossible.

How did you manage to get D+/D- at 2.7 V independent of the supply voltage? Or, did you tweak them for the 5.2 V output?

[SharpEars]

You will not  decrease the charging time by increasing the voltage of the  USB port.
The battery is not charged with the USB voltage. There is a regulator  between the USB port and the battery.
There is no way you can change the regulator behavior.

On the other hand, I noticed that if you are slightly below 5.0 V,  it will use much more amps from the PSU,
probably  get at the end the same power. This is why i preferred to be a little bit above 5V than below 5V,
It allows to  charge more devices from the same source, but  I  do not think it will charge faster any of the devices.

Then explain why the current load increases as the voltage increases up to the OVP? If what you are saying is true, the current load on the PS should decrease with increasing voltage.

I understand that there is an intelligent regulator between the lightning cable connector and the batteries. However, it seems to me that it is supplying more current to the battery as the voltage increases up to the OVP. It is either that or it is sinking the excess current and converting it to heat, which I find unlikely but possible.

[JacquesBBB]

In fact,  I was wrong.

After writing the above lines, I checked (rapidly ) on my PSU with   a small  board with voltege dividers before the USB plus
with the ipad 2, I got (it is already 89% full)

4.7 V  : 0.88 A
4.8 V  : 1.07 A
4.9 V  : 1.18 A
5.0 V  : 1.3   A
5.1 V  :  1.51 A
5.2 V  : 1.55 A

Note that this was not the best conditions as  it would have been more regular with a nearly  empty device (at least not nearly full).

[JacquesBBB]

Now here is a kindred spirit! I tried doing the same thing with an old ATX power supply, but the power regulation was horrible. It started out at something like 5.76V and then dropped below 5V with the slightest load - complete crap. This also made creating a constant 2.7 V for the D+/D- via a ladder divider impossible.
How did you manage to get D+/D- at 2.7 V independent of the supply voltage? Or, did you tweak them for the 5.2 V output?

In my case, the voltage is 5.2 V at zero load and 5.18 at  4 A.   This is not an ATX PSU. It is made to deliver only 5V.
So the D+/D- voltage should not vary much.
 

[SharpEars]

In fact,  I was wrong.

After writing the above lines, I checked (rapidly ) on my PSU with   a small  board with voltege dividers before the USB plus
with the ipad 2, I got (it is already 89% full)

4.7 V  : 0.88 A
4.8 V  : 1.07 A
4.9 V  : 1.18 A
5.0 V  : 1.3   A
5.1 V  :  1.51 A
5.2 V  : 1.55 A

Note that this was not the best conditions as  it would have been more regular with a nearly  empty device (at least not nearly full).

Thank you for confirming my findings and I assume we are now in agreement?

[SharpEars]

Now here is a kindred spirit! I tried doing the same thing with an old ATX power supply, but the power regulation was horrible. It started out at something like 5.76V and then dropped below 5V with the slightest load - complete crap. This also made creating a constant 2.7 V for the D+/D- via a ladder divider impossible.
How did you manage to get D+/D- at 2.7 V independent of the supply voltage? Or, did you tweak them for the 5.2 V output?

In my case, the voltage is 5.2 V at zero load and 5.18 at  4 A.   This is not an ATX PSU. It is made to deliver only 5V.
So the D+/D- voltage should not vary much.

OK, so it is much better at load regulation (only a 20 mV drop at a 4 A load) and therefore you were OK with a simple resistor ladder V divider to get the 2.7 V? Or how did you do this with the daughter card?

[JacquesBBB]

The 2.7  were just obtained with voltage dividers with 2 resistors.

[JacquesBBB]

This was from a previous design, without the meters.
I must say it is much better with the meters.