Author Topic: Some 555-Timer-Dies  (Read 5691 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Some 555-Timer-Dies
« on: May 01, 2019, 10:19:08 pm »
Hi all,

I made some photos of the different 555-Timers available in the wide world.
Perhaps you are interested in the different designs:
http://www.richis-lab.de/555.htm
Text is german but pictures are international and Google-Translator is your friend.  ;)

Greetings,

Richard
 
The following users thanked this post: BravoV, Crumble, thm_w, TimNJ, edavid, exe, jct, Wolfgang, Sredni

Online TimNJ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1074
  • Country: us
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2019, 10:25:48 pm »
This is awesome! Interesting how they are all very similar (in terms of semiconductor features), yet still quite different from manufacturer to manufacturer.
 

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 06:25:13 am »
Thanks!


In the 555 manufactured by TI I found the same dies as zeptobars posted (https://zeptobars.com/en/read/Ti-555-NE555-real-vs-face-china-chinese):
=> http://www.richis-lab.de/555_10.htm


What zeptobars didn´t mention: It seems that in the "medium size die" the masks weren´t properly aligned:



Looking at this picture it´s amazing that the chip is working.

Offline //Matt//

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: hr
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 06:39:09 pm »
Very interesting. Nice work.  :-+
 

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2019, 08:55:18 am »
Thanks!  :)

If you are interested in my projects I can post here whenever I´ve got something new.

Comments on my page will be german but here we can discuss whatever you are interested in...  :-/O :wtf: :blah: :popcorn:

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7113
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2019, 09:00:03 am »
LM317 and it's variants please ...  :P

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2019, 09:02:02 am »
LM317? Are there so many variants too?
Interesting...  :) ;) :)

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7113
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2019, 09:08:32 am »
LM317? Are there so many variants too?
Interesting...  :) ;) :)

I do remember, many2 years go, using brute force + hammer + screw driver tip  >:D, strip naked a National Semiconductor's LM317 vs ST's one or TI's one, I don't remember which, and the exposed dies clearly were different to naked eyes.

We all know there are soooo many 317 variants out there manufactured by so many companies.  :P

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6956
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2019, 11:34:30 am »
In the 555 manufactured by TI I found the same dies as zeptobars posted (https://zeptobars.com/en/read/Ti-555-NE555-real-vs-face-china-chinese):
=> http://www.richis-lab.de/555_10.htm
Interesting that the last die on your page is very similar to the second zeptobars one, but with some small changes like the lack of the "X" logo in the upper left, and they're both seem to be based on the G1083 layout and then "compressed". Also observe that your die still has some diagonal traces, but the "X" one from zeptobars doesn't have any (except the logo itself, ironically enough...)

Others here probably know much more about the topic of trace direction in IC layout; could it have to do with different fab processes and design rules?
 

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2019, 11:47:01 am »
In the 555 manufactured by TI I found the same dies as zeptobars posted (https://zeptobars.com/en/read/Ti-555-NE555-real-vs-face-china-chinese):
=> http://www.richis-lab.de/555_10.htm
Interesting that the last die on your page is very similar to the second zeptobars one, but with some small changes like the lack of the "X" logo in the upper left, and they're both seem to be based on the G1083 layout and then "compressed". Also observe that your die still has some diagonal traces, but the "X" one from zeptobars doesn't have any (except the logo itself, ironically enough...)

Others here probably know much more about the topic of trace direction in IC layout; could it have to do with different fab processes and design rules?

You are right. Didn´t realize that.  :-+

Another interesting point although obvious: The last die on my page has an edge length of 600µm while the first one is 1,1mm x 1,1mm. That means that they get nearly four Dies out of what was in 1996 the area of only one die (assuming they don´t need too much space to separate them).



Does anybody have a bunch of different LM317 and wants to send them to germany?  ;D



Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2019, 10:07:38 pm »
I bought new NE555P on Amazon. Very ugly markings on this chip:



It seems that there are a lot of "cheap TI NE555P" available:





And here the upper one:



Whole Story here (german):

https://www.richis-lab.de/555.htm

Have fun!  :popcorn:


No NE555 but also interesting: The available 2N3055:

https://www.richis-lab.de/2N3055.htm


Offline magic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2692
  • Country: pl
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2019, 04:42:33 am »
What are you using to take those pics and how much magnification is it?
 

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2019, 05:07:33 am »
I will soon post some explanations to this topic.

I use a normal DSLR with a so called retro adapter to mount the lens reversed.
In between I add some extension bellows.
Than with a little bit of practice and some learning how to do it best you get really nice Pictures.  8)

Magnification should be around 20.
The sensor is 2,3cm wide and I can zoom in to a width of a little more than 1,1mm.
More magnification ist possible but you don´t get more details. I think you can´t do better with such kind of tool.
But the picture has 18 Megapixel! The theorethical resolution is 0,4µm. ;D
According to my experience the actual resolution limit is around 5µm. On a good day and with a little bit of interpolation perhaps 3µm or 2µm.

More to this topic coming soon...  :popcorn:
 
The following users thanked this post: Someone, Prehistoricman, magic

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2019, 10:11:59 pm »
Hi magic,
Hi all,

today I´m proudly presenting:

The Howto Decapping and Documentation

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/decapping-and-chip-documentation-howto/

Sorry, german as usual but ask me whatever you want!

 :popcorn:

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2020, 10:58:35 pm »
Hi all,


still interested in 555-dies?

I can now compare the NE555, the SA555 and the SE555 from TI:












The NE555 seems to be newer but there aren´t any functional differences as far as I can see.
I´ll try to get a newer SA555 or SE555 to check whether there is also a 555A or the 555B of the newer NE555.


As usual everything here in german: www.richis-lab.de


Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2020, 11:09:15 pm »

Hi all,


I found an interesting NE555-Timer:






I have no idea where the NE555 was manufactured.
It looks like the Fairchild-555-Timer:




The interesting point is:
They left the Transistor Q7 (usual NE555-schematic) unconnected on the die!



I assume they had problems with oscillations because of the differential amplifier spread all over the right side of the die.

Whole story on my site (in german):
https://richis-lab.de/555_21.htm

 :popcorn:

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 09:06:34 pm »

Hi all!


Still interested in NE555s? Please give me some feedback. Writing english is more work for me than writing in a german speaking forum.  ;)


I have decapped a Signetics-NE555 with a 1977-datecode and one with a 1976-datecode:
https://richis-lab.de/555_6.htm (please scroll down)

The die provides no new Information but I found a interesting difference:

The 1977-one has an bond wire between the ground-pin and the casing:



In the 1976-NE555 the casing is isolated from the ground-pin:



Well it has some connection across the substrate but what will happen if there is a ESD or a capacitive coupling to the casing that travels through the die?  :scared:


Greetings,

Richard


Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1530
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2020, 09:44:56 pm »
Hi all,

I made some photos of the different 555-Timers available in the wide world.
Perhaps you are interested in the different designs:
http://www.richis-lab.de/555.htm
Text is german but pictures are international and Google-Translator is your friend.  ;)

Greetings,

Richard

Hi,

nice work !
Could you do an LM723 too ?

regards
  Wolfgang
 

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2020, 09:53:12 pm »
Hello Wolfgang,

thanks!  :-+

Well I can do a LM723 too.
Give me some time. I will get back to you.

Greetings,

Richard

 
The following users thanked this post: Wolfgang

Offline Wimberleytech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1087
  • Country: us
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2020, 10:11:15 pm »
Great work. 
As I was panning down, I was going to suggest a vintage 555.  I have a few from the '70s...and then you presented them!!

It would be nice to have those photographed like the other die (light colinear with optical path or something).
 

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 10:21:31 pm »
Thanks!  :)

I have a Signetics dating 1973. Must be one of the first! Coming soon in the same quality as every other die... 8)

...but I´m working on my equipment. Perhaps I can get the quality a little bit better.
The ofen was a good step: https://richis-lab.de/decap-ofen.htm
And now I will try some optical flips to get the resolution even better. But I´m not sure how much more I can achieve with my low-cost-microscope.  :-/O


PS: On my page (https://richis-lab.de/555.htm) there are more pictures, also of these old Signetics. I always put only the most important pictures here.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:23:58 pm by Noopy »
 

Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1530
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2020, 10:12:09 am »
Hello Wolfgang,

thanks!  :-+

Well I can do a LM723 too.
Give me some time. I will get back to you.

Greetings,

Richard

Hi,

if interested about some LM723 stuff, I have some material on my website:
https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/power-supplies/a-collection-of-proper-design-practices-using-the-lm723-ic-regulator/

regards
  Wolfgang
 
The following users thanked this post: exe, Noopy

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 2704
  • Country: tr
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2020, 12:36:57 pm »
:clap:  :-+ => :popcorn:
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 
The following users thanked this post: Noopy

Offline Noopy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2020, 11:08:03 pm »
Hello again!

I have interesting news about the famous NE555!

I decapped a UTC555 manufactured by Youwang Electronics.





The quality of the picture is not as good as some other pictures I have taken but it´s obvious that the circuit is the same as in the "147 NE555". It´s the Fairchild-NE555 with a deactivated Q7 transistor.

As I had three of the UTC555 I was able to do some comparative measurements:






The CMOS-timer TLC555 is able to switch with 2MHz and shows a correct duty factor of 75%.




The original Fairchild LM555 can also switch with 2MHz. Only the duty factor is a little bit smaler.




The UTC555 can only switch with round about 0,6MHz and it switches unstable.




A new TI NE555 switches a little bit more slowly but works stable.


It appears to me that the NE555-variants were made more slowly over the years of development. For most usecases that´s ok. Hopefully you don´t have a fast circuit were you have to renew an old NE555.


Whole story here:
https://www.richis-lab.de/555_22.htm


Greetings,


Richard
 
The following users thanked this post: oPossum, MagicSmoker

Online floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3849
  • Country: ca
Re: Some 555-Timer-Dies
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2020, 12:30:01 am »
I guess there are differences between 555's. This truth table from Tony van Roon (VA3AVR) site.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf