Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Speaker Wire and Calculating Guage
themadhippy:
--- Quote ---but in the professional audio world, we use standard SO or SJO power cordage,
--- End quote ---
you might,but van damme is more common over here,and it coils much easier than flex
DW1961:
--- Quote from: Bassman59 on July 21, 2020, 11:30:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: DW1961 on July 20, 2020, 10:06:04 pm ---
How do you calculate what size wire you need for speakers and amps?
I am familiar with this site
However, when I ran my original speaker wire, I didn't know it was CCA wire (Amazon brad), so now I want to redo my calculations. Also confounding my calculation is , how do I know what the resistance is for CCA wire? I've read that the skinning affect actually reduces resistance is CCA wire (since there is some copper on the outside) so it's not just like calculating for copper or aluminum.
--- End quote ---
Dunno what sort of speakers or amps you are using, but in the professional audio world, we use standard SO or SJO power cordage, from 16 AWG up to 12 AWG. Maybe 50 cents a foot for the common 14/2 cable.
--- End quote ---
So in Russel's web page, does he mean 48 feet one way for 16 AWG copper?
"In the early speaker manuals, starting with the XR5, I included a chart for estimating the maximum wire lengths for various sizes of copper wire needed for 4 and 8 ohm loads. I have expanded it on this page to include 2 and 6 ohm loads as well. It was based on the resistance of the speaker wire not exceeding 5% of the rated impedance of the system. The wire length is for TWO-CONDUCTOR wire. This includes one wire out to the speaker and one wire back again. "
Then teh table has:
16 AWG Max. 48'
I think he must mean 48 feet one way judging by Bob's comment above, '16 AWG is about 0.004 Ohms per foot. So 100 feet of cable has 200 feet of wire in it, for a resistance of around 0.8 Ohm."
Given that, 50' would be .4 Ohm, and that is what Russel must mean--48' one way includes both wires?
If so, even though I have that crappy Amazon CCA, my 16AWG run is 24' one way, so I'm WAY under that .4 Ohm limit, right?
Bassman59:
--- Quote from: DW1961 on July 22, 2020, 01:33:47 am ---
--- Quote from: Bassman59 on July 21, 2020, 11:30:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: DW1961 on July 20, 2020, 10:06:04 pm ---
How do you calculate what size wire you need for speakers and amps?
I am familiar with this site
However, when I ran my original speaker wire, I didn't know it was CCA wire (Amazon brad), so now I want to redo my calculations. Also confounding my calculation is , how do I know what the resistance is for CCA wire? I've read that the skinning affect actually reduces resistance is CCA wire (since there is some copper on the outside) so it's not just like calculating for copper or aluminum.
--- End quote ---
Dunno what sort of speakers or amps you are using, but in the professional audio world, we use standard SO or SJO power cordage, from 16 AWG up to 12 AWG. Maybe 50 cents a foot for the common 14/2 cable.
--- End quote ---
So in Russel's web page, does he mean 48 feet one way for 16 AWG copper?
"In the early speaker manuals, starting with the XR5, I included a chart for estimating the maximum wire lengths for various sizes of copper wire needed for 4 and 8 ohm loads. I have expanded it on this page to include 2 and 6 ohm loads as well. It was based on the resistance of the speaker wire not exceeding 5% of the rated impedance of the system. The wire length is for TWO-CONDUCTOR wire. This includes one wire out to the speaker and one wire back again. "
Then teh table has:
16 AWG Max. 48'
I think he must mean 48 feet one way judging by Bob's comment above, '16 AWG is about 0.004 Ohms per foot. So 100 feet of cable has 200 feet of wire in it, for a resistance of around 0.8 Ohm."
Given that, 50' would be .4 Ohm, and that is what Russel must mean--48' one way includes both wires?
If so, even though I have that crappy Amazon CCA, my 16AWG run is 24' one way, so I'm WAY under that .4 Ohm limit, right?
--- End quote ---
How about telling us your application. Are you building a mastering studio or are you setting up speakers in your living room?
How long are your speaker cable runs?
For most practical purposes, 16 AWG is more than sufficient for home-stereo listening. Skin effect is entirely irrelevant. Damping factor matters only in the limit, like if you were driving 18" subwoofers for an EDM show.
DW1961:
--- Quote from: Bassman59 on July 22, 2020, 06:31:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: DW1961 on July 22, 2020, 01:33:47 am ---
--- Quote from: Bassman59 on July 21, 2020, 11:30:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: DW1961 on July 20, 2020, 10:06:04 pm ---
How do you calculate what size wire you need for speakers and amps?
I am familiar with this site
However, when I ran my original speaker wire, I didn't know it was CCA wire (Amazon brad), so now I want to redo my calculations. Also confounding my calculation is , how do I know what the resistance is for CCA wire? I've read that the skinning affect actually reduces resistance is CCA wire (since there is some copper on the outside) so it's not just like calculating for copper or aluminum.
--- End quote ---
Dunno what sort of speakers or amps you are using, but in the professional audio world, we use standard SO or SJO power cordage, from 16 AWG up to 12 AWG. Maybe 50 cents a foot for the common 14/2 cable.
--- End quote ---
So in Russel's web page, does he mean 48 feet one way for 16 AWG copper?
"In the early speaker manuals, starting with the XR5, I included a chart for estimating the maximum wire lengths for various sizes of copper wire needed for 4 and 8 ohm loads. I have expanded it on this page to include 2 and 6 ohm loads as well. It was based on the resistance of the speaker wire not exceeding 5% of the rated impedance of the system. The wire length is for TWO-CONDUCTOR wire. This includes one wire out to the speaker and one wire back again. "
Then teh table has:
16 AWG Max. 48'
I think he must mean 48 feet one way judging by Bob's comment above, '16 AWG is about 0.004 Ohms per foot. So 100 feet of cable has 200 feet of wire in it, for a resistance of around 0.8 Ohm."
Given that, 50' would be .4 Ohm, and that is what Russel must mean--48' one way includes both wires?
If so, even though I have that crappy Amazon CCA, my 16AWG run is 24' one way, so I'm WAY under that .4 Ohm limit, right?
--- End quote ---
How about telling us your application. Are you building a mastering studio or are you setting up speakers in your living room?
How long are your speaker cable runs?
For most practical purposes, 16 AWG is more than sufficient for home-stereo listening. Skin effect is entirely irrelevant. Damping factor matters only in the limit, like if you were driving 18" subwoofers for an EDM show.
--- End quote ---
The run is 24' one way.
It's just a home system with RM51 Klipsch speakers and a Chinese D amp rated at 100 watts RMS at 4 Ohms. The Klipsch speakers are SENSITIVITY 93 dB @ 2.83V/1M. So that really helps.
Klipsch Specs: https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets/R-51M_Spec-Sheet_v01.pdf
ThIs is the little Amp:
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Bluetooth-Amplifier-Audio-Receiver/dp/B07QNJPC31/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-nc-drs1_0?cv_ct_cx=Nobsound&dchild=1&keywords=Nobsound&pd_rd_i=B07QNJPC31&pd_rd_r=07857196-922e-4acf-9f6c-c01cca9d82da&pd_rd_w=FX7ab&pd_rd_wg=PQrhL&pf_rd_p=43f4b3f0-0b04-46ba-8a08-2e851d035e17&pf_rd_r=D4751P6417T95SNKSDM7&psc=1&qid=1595447770&sr=1-1-f3947b35-9c59-4d7a-9603-b751e6eed25b
I get what you're saying about needs for power and bass etc.
I never exceed 50% power level on the D Amp, as I mainly listen to Jazz at lower levels (I set the Amp at 50% then adjust the volume from my computer software So if I turn up the software volume to 100% the Amp is doing 50% power. I should probably turn it up to 80% and use a lower software volume, but I don't know if that matters or not.) The Amp uses the Texas Instruments 3116D amp chip. Since the speaker are 8 Ohms I'm only getting 25 Watts per channel, unless I misunderstand power and Ohms. Still sounds good for my needs.
If this is correct below, then even with CCA wire, I should be golden:
"Russel is saying, "It was based on the resistance of the speaker wire not exceeding 5% of the rated impedance of the system. The wire length is for TWO-CONDUCTOR wire. This includes one wire out to the speaker and one wire back again."
So .05 * 8 = 0.4ohms
But if 16AWG is only .004ohms per foot, you could run 100 feet total wire and still meet his requirements? And that would mean his statement is 48 feet two wires one way?"
TimFox:
He's talking about a two-wire cable, where the total wire length is twice the cable length.
Back in sixth grade arithmetic, we had a trick question where we had to know that the required length of rail is twice the length of the track in a railroad.
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