Author Topic: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?  (Read 19855 times)

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Offline Bassman59

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2019, 05:14:30 pm »
Wooohooo!  Great idea!  I already have a smallish compressor.  Thanks!


I have a broken refrigerator and the intention of using the compressor to build myself a shop compressor. It'll be any year now. :)

Compressed air tools have the advantage of being powerful and refrigerated by the expanding air.
I have an R2D2-sized air compressor in a room off my house. I use it with my air impact wrench (with car tires), for tire inflation, and with a ratchet wrench for outdoor assembly. (It was great for bolting together a gym set for the kid.) It's so fsckin' loud that I can't be in the room when it runs. And the tools themselves are loud.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2019, 05:16:54 pm »
Quote
I wonder if there are any high speed dremel type tool that will withstand heavy-duty usage?  I used a regular type for this particular time.  Well...  it got awfully hot.  Also locking mechanism jammed so I had to take it apart and fix it.  Maybe something like dentists use?
My only Dremel is probably over 10 years old and still works like new.

I have an even older Dremel, maybe 25 years or so. I have a fantasy of using a Dremel-like tool for routing in 1.5 mm aluminum -- is that reasonable?
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2019, 05:29:36 pm »
Quote
A die grinder is a fairly blunt instrument, not something you'd want to (or even be able to) use for putting switch/button holes in aluminum.
The die grinder is the exacto knife of the steel shaping world. And it is used for porting aluminum engines to improve air flow, which involves shaping things smoothly and precisely. It would absolutely do stuff like this, using a carbide burr. They make burrs specifically for aluminum, as well. You'll have to finish the corners with a file, obviously. This is for the rough shaping.

Quote
don't you want a safety switch with 1/4 inch? I kind of feel like using a router free hand for metal is dangerous even if its overbuilt because of ergonomics. They are like a giant can
Well, a stubby die grinder isn't much different. It's always dangerous, and I suggest full face shield whenever using a burr in metal, cuz chips in your eye.
https://www.amazon.com/Metabo-GE710-Compact-Variable-710-watt/dp/B00FDLB9OC/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=metabo+die+grinder&qid=1571332977&sr=8-8

The problem with electric die grinders is they are expensive. There are cheap imports in the realm of the 25-30 dollar trim router, but they are junk with unbalanced motors.

Quote
I have an even older Dremel, maybe 25 years or so. I have a fantasy of using a Dremel-like tool for routing in 1.5 mm aluminum -- is that reasonable?
Dunno. I've routed up to 5mm aluminum using trim router with an endmill, in a router table. That works good, but it's really slow, because you have to take shallow passes. IIRC, I was taking max 1/32"- 1/16th" cuts (but my router table has some compromises to the rigidity). This is one of the reasons I built a threaded incrementing fence, to make that find of adjustment quickly, and even down to 1/64th" for final pass. 1.5mm might be doable by a Dremel, but if you are imagining doing this free-hand, I suggest you stick with burrs.

*edit: You can cut aluminum with any bit for wood. But if you route plexiglass or aluminum with a straight carbide cutter for wood, it doesn't cut as smoothly and it also leaves weird diagonal lines on the edge. Likewise, any drill bit or saw for wood will also cut aluminum. Even large forstner bits in a drill press; you just have to drill a pilot hole for the point, although some peeps just press a lot harder, lol. I use the router table on aluminum mostly for finishing and dimensioning, slots/grooves, and partial cavities. It's a lot like manual milling, but upside down. And with stop blocks instead of crank knobs; and you might have to include extra material for indexing against the table/fence which will be cut away when it's done. If you need tight tolerances, and esp parallel edges, a router table can get you there, eventually, you just have to want it bad enough, and you might have to add some parts along the way. Adjusting the Z-axis is the biggest pain, left on my table. I have a couple ideas on how to amend this, but I haven't had the need, yet.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 07:17:06 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline tkamiyaTopic starter

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2019, 01:36:23 am »
I've seen my share of industrial accidents....  I've seen an arm fly off a lathe.  I have a full face shield on every time I use dremel.  The cutting blade may not have that much mass but the speed has enough to cause enough force to take out an eye or cause serious cuts.

My compressor is pretty small and isn't too loud.  I still don't want to be in the same space, so I have a long  hose.
 

Offline m3vuv

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2019, 08:27:56 am »
I've seen my share of industrial accidents....  I've seen an arm fly off a lathe.  I have a full face shield on every time I use dremel.  The cutting blade may not have that much mass but the speed has enough to cause enough force to take out an eye or cause serious cuts.

My compressor is pretty small and isn't too loud.  I still don't want to be in the same space, so I have a long  hose.
do lathes have arms?,ive never seen one with arms or legs come to think of it!!
 
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #80 on: October 18, 2019, 08:37:14 am »
I have seen an arm put into a Lathe once it definitely didn't end well.

Back when I had a real job I was pulled up by the companies MD over why I wasn't wearing a tie when I came back into the office on several occasions after visiting clients. The business involved Pumps, Motors and Gearboxes clearly his MBA following the fancy private school didn't give him all of the answers after all. :palm:
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Offline tkamiyaTopic starter

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #81 on: October 18, 2019, 09:12:21 am »
 do lathes have arms?,ive never seen one with arms or legs come to think of it!!
[/quote]


Do I need to be graphic?  Lathe doesn't have arms but the operator does/did. 
 

Offline dom0

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #82 on: October 18, 2019, 05:18:32 pm »


Weeeeeeeeeeeeee
,
 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2019, 02:37:56 am »
you can use a dremel to route thin aluminum of 1.5mm but you need to make a fixture so it does not vibrate (i.e. stiffen it with some steel behind it) and very carefully feed it to a carbide burr, it tends to 'bounce' around in the hole.

if its something like a angle beam, then you can just put it in a vise and its stiff enough. but if its a sheet

Like put it in a vise and clamp 2 steel bars behind the aluminum close to where you are cutting so it does not vibrate too much

but I don't see you making nice squares, it will still require some filing (I recommend a special aluminum file)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 02:41:19 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline EEEnthusiast

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #84 on: March 02, 2020, 06:44:16 am »
Finally I was able to get my CNC milling machine/router to work. I had assembled it almost a year ago but left it in the corner as I got busy with other things.
Yesterday I cut out a rectangle hole 10x5mm on a 2mm thick aluminium panel. The first attempt was a fail as I was learning to set the speed, drill depth, correct bit size etc.
The 2nd one came out decent. Attaching a pic.

The CNC I have used is the one below
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836161266.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5a964c4dWT7bXv

I used LibreCad to make the hole dxf
Then use DXF2GCODE Tool to convert that to GCodes.
Then GRBL Controller software running on Windows is used to send the GCodes to the CNC machine.
I used a 1mm milling bit bought from aliexpress for the tooling.

Few care-abouts
==========
Just ensure that the spindle is rotating fast enough (6000 rpm+) when cutting on metal with small  milling bits.
The XY movement rate was set to 120 mm/min (about 2mm per second).
The Z movment is set to 0.05mm per iteration. So it takes about 40 iterations to complete this cut.


Note : I have no affiliation with AliExpress or any CNC makers.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 06:46:26 am by EEEnthusiast »
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Offline wizard69

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #85 on: March 02, 2020, 10:57:19 am »
About that mill, training shouldn't inhibit your ability to learn to use a milling machine.   The real problem with milling machines is the expense.   This makes me wonder if you have a makers space near by that you can join.   The ability to properly machine something opens up all sorts of possibilities with respect to your hobbies.

For ideas that don't involve milling machines I have a few to list.   Realize though you need to check to see if they are suitable for 3mm thick aluminum.

You can buy powered nibblers for electric drills with a bit more capacity.    Example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017JRJUI4/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFFU1NCWDM3MU9MSUgmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwNDAxMDEySE41RUExNkY4RVUzJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4MDA5NDcxSDBCVjFRUzhTOU9NJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsMiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

A jig saw can do the job if the item to be mounted has a flange to cover the ragged edge.

Actually your drill and file method it tried and true.   The trick here is having the right files.  A good vise or other method of clamping the work down is needed.   Being able to clamp the panels down is key to getting good results with hand tools.

Well.....  all the sudden, drills, files, and a couple of band-aids doesn't seem so bad....
It has been that way in the DiY world forever.   It is only recently that low cost alternative methods have turned up.   Even in industry we sometimes have to resort to this approach.
Quote
Farming it out is OUT because of the way I make things.  I do in steps.  It's just too inconvenient to make several trips to the shop.  For my current project, I ran into few problems.  Now, I have to remove the front panel, add two DB9 holes and 1 hole for LED.

As far as Greenly punches go, I was reading up some.  For aluminum, the spec for the punch is 3.2mm.  That's awfully close to some of the rack panels.  I really don't want to buy mills as I was never trained to properly use it.

It might pay to make friends with an electrician, especially one that does machine controls.   
 
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Offline wizard69

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #86 on: March 02, 2020, 11:51:23 am »
Some more general tips for working with aluminum:

  • Lubrication helps!   WD40 is surprisingly good when it comes to aluminum machining.   It can help greatly when using powered tools but also helps for manual work.
  • Just about any tool used for wood working will machine aluminum.   Table saws are regularly used to cut aluminum stock to dimension/   There is considerable noise though.   Do make sure your approach is safe.
  • I've used a hand held router with burrs usually associated with die grinders to machine both steel and aluminum.   The spindle speed is about the same so you get similar removal rates.   Frankly with two hands on the router and the work piece clamped you get better control.   Even better is to use fencing in the same way you would for routing wood.   The more control the better.   Usually I do this to "clean up" stuff that was rough cut via other methods.
  • If the visuals allow you can avoid the hand work of cleaning up the corners of cutout done with rotary tools by over traveling on one axis half the tool diameter. This can save a lot of time be it in a production setting or simply something you are doing by hand.
  • A 4.5" right angle grinder can work miracles in the right hands.   You can also screw things up real quick.   However they can make real quick roughed out rectangular cut outs.
  • When drilling sheet metal use drill bits designed for such.   Stepped drills used by electricians are ideal
  • Machinist tools help greatly.   Consider deburring tools from Noga and others.   Triangular scrapers are very useful.   Layout tools cna be of huge help, the square, compass, scribers, even layout ink, can make it far easier to create a good looking panel.  These tools will not do your cutting but they can lead to a far nice end product./li]
 
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Online langwadt

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #87 on: March 02, 2020, 11:56:27 am »
Some more general tips for working with aluminum:

  • Lubrication helps!   WD40 is surprisingly good when it comes to aluminum machining.   It can help greatly when using powered tools but also helps for manual work.

ethanol is a much better and it doesn't smell or leaves a mess
 
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Offline EEEnthusiast

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #88 on: March 02, 2020, 02:14:11 pm »
Some more general tips for working with aluminum:

  • Lubrication helps!   WD40 is surprisingly good when it comes to aluminum machining.   It can help greatly when using powered tools but also helps for manual work.

ethanol is a much better and it doesn't smell or leaves a mess

I'm wondering if ethanol fumes can catch fire due to high temperature caused by the milling. Is it really safe to use ethanol in such applications?
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Online langwadt

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #89 on: March 02, 2020, 02:39:43 pm »
Some more general tips for working with aluminum:

  • Lubrication helps!   WD40 is surprisingly good when it comes to aluminum machining.   It can help greatly when using powered tools but also helps for manual work.

ethanol is a much better and it doesn't smell or leaves a mess

I'm wondering if ethanol fumes can catch fire due to high temperature caused by the milling. Is it really safe to use ethanol in such applications?


milling aluminum isn't very high temperature and it is only tiny amounts of ethanol, so I don't see it being anymore or less safe than using wd40
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #90 on: March 03, 2020, 12:20:48 am »
Still better to move to something with a lower flash point just in case. Mineral Oil (Baby Oil) or Kerosene (plenty of others but these are easy to get) would be safer options. It would need a wipe over post Milling but your eyebrows will still be in place.

I still like the Nibbler for odd awkward jobs, iron filings in the PC build wouldn't work to well  ;)
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Offline Renate

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2020, 12:28:47 am »
Some of the Dremel tools are ok for steel, but they are lousy for aluminum.
I bought a few expensive 1/8" 2 flute fancy coated end mills from McMaster.
I had to make a jig to cut radiuses on some 1/4" x 1" aluminum.
Dremels are not too good a choice as you really can't do constant speed, only constant power.
Still, if you control the speed (and the chatter) they can be handy.

Slightly off subject, plastic drills! I love them!
No, they are not plastic, they are steel.
They have a 0° rake so they don't dive through your little plastic box leaving a mangled hole like a butterfly.
Don't use them for anything but plastic.
Hmm, I can't even find the brand I bought.
Here's another brand: https://www.tapplastics.com/product/supplies_tools/plastic_tools_supplies/tap_plasdrill_bits/161
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2020, 12:49:40 am »
Interesting I didn't know you could by zero rake drills  :-+ Quick check on Amazon turned up this set Norseman Drill Set Now do I 'need' as small set and where are the Metric ones :palm:

On Rake angle I have been looking at getting a zero rake Saw blade for my tracksaw for Acrylic and Aluminium for a T Slot build I have coming up but I am making do with the thin kerf Plywood blade for breaking down Acrylic sheets for my Laser and doesn't chip.
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Online tautech

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2020, 12:55:58 am »
On Rake angle I have been looking at getting a zero rake Saw blade for my tracksaw for Acrylic and Aluminium for a T Slot build I have coming up but I am making do with the thin kerf Plywood blade for breaking down Acrylic sheets for my Laser and doesn't chip.
Crosscut blades have entirely different rake to ripping or combo blades....go down that rabbit hole.  ;)
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #94 on: March 04, 2020, 01:03:20 am »
On Rake angle I have been looking at getting a zero rake Saw blade for my tracksaw for Acrylic and Aluminium for a T Slot build I have coming up but I am making do with the thin kerf Plywood blade for breaking down Acrylic sheets for my Laser and doesn't chip.
Crosscut blades have entirely different rake to ripping or combo blades....go down that rabbit hole.  ;)

I have both already the saw came with a Rip/Combo blade and I added one of these https://www.bunnings.com.au/diablo-165mm-6-5-40-teeth-fine-finish-cordless-circular-saw-blade_p6370899 for Ply and Panel working great so far only runs a shallow rake.
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Online tautech

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Re: Square holes on aluminum.... how do you do it?
« Reply #95 on: March 04, 2020, 01:24:24 am »
On Rake angle I have been looking at getting a zero rake Saw blade for my tracksaw for Acrylic and Aluminium for a T Slot build I have coming up but I am making do with the thin kerf Plywood blade for breaking down Acrylic sheets for my Laser and doesn't chip.
Crosscut blades have entirely different rake to ripping or combo blades....go down that rabbit hole.  ;)

I have both already the saw came with a Rip/Combo blade and I added one of these https://www.bunnings.com.au/diablo-165mm-6-5-40-teeth-fine-finish-cordless-circular-saw-blade_p6370899 for Ply and Panel working great so far only runs a shallow rake.
Yes because the depth of cut and therefore control is done with a depth gauge instead of a tooth rake best suited to the material or the job. Horses for courses.  :horse:
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