Poll

Regarding surface-mount technology, in my lab

I only use through-hole component and cannot/don't want to use SMT
4 (2.8%)
I am thinking of using SMT but I need to improve my soldering
8 (5.6%)
I have the skills and tools to handle most packages (e.g. QFN, 0603) but populating a THT board is easier and more fun
16 (11.2%)
I have the skills and tools to handle most packages (e.g. QFN, 0603) and I actively try to use SMT as it is electrically better and looks cooler
72 (50.3%)
I can handle most large packages (e.g. SOIC, 0805) but populating a THT board is easier and more fun
8 (5.6%)
I can handle most packages (e.g. SOIC, 0805) and I'm working towards QFNs and BGAs
34 (23.8%)
Other/What is this SMT stuff anyway?
1 (0.7%)

Total Members Voted: 141

Voting closed: January 04, 2014, 03:37:38 am

Author Topic: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab  (Read 15547 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AlexTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 175
  • Country: gb
State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« on: December 05, 2013, 02:33:22 am »
With the rise of the modern hacker/maker/tinkerer/hobbyist, I was wondering to what extent has surface mount technology penetrated into home labs in general.

Do you guys run away when you see a board with SMTs that needs repair or, on the other hand of the spectrum, design all your boards for 100% SMT?

How do you feel about SMT in the hands of hobbyists? What if we woke up tomorrow and THT never existed?  :-//
 

Offline ConnorGames

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 02:41:09 am »
This would make a neat poll. I used to avoid surface mount, thinking it was too small for me to ever solder! Nevertheless, I started to use SMT about a year ago, and love it. It is so much easier not to need to flip the board over and worry about parts falling out, and SMT also allows much smaller and cheaper prototype PCB's. I have gone as small as .5mm pitch QFN's with hot-air reflow and stencils, and .65mm TSSOP / 0603 passives by hand.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7799
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 02:41:41 am »
I prototype analog circuits in PTH because I have a wider assortment of PTH passives - the assortment kits are very cheap and I have piles and piles of them left from when I didn't do any SMD. It's also easier to make bodgey changes, though of course you can bodge PTH parts onto an SMD board. But I design all final boards in SMD and do digital stuff all in SMD as well, including prototype.

The only advantages of PTH that I can see are:
1. You can assemble a PTH circuit when you are surprisingly close to legally blind, and
2. You can muddle along soldering PTH with a $10 Radio Shack Soldering Shovel and no skill, even if it will look pathetic.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline marshallh

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1462
  • Country: us
    • retroactive
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 02:48:15 am »
I design all my stuff for paste + reflow... yes even lead free. You can do bga at home if just do some research and use your head (read a few process papers and adapt to what you have)
Verilog tips
BGA soldering intro

11:37 <@ktemkin> c4757p: marshall has transcended communications media
11:37 <@ktemkin> He speaks protocols directly.
 

Offline andyturk

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 895
  • Country: us
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 03:14:05 am »
I reflow SMT projects at home using a skillet. The nice thing is that my "library" of passives (books of 0603 parts) takes up less space than a loaf of bread. In some cases, I'll have a stencil made by ohararp, but I generally just dab paste on my boards with a needle mounted in an old mechanical pencil. I've also gotten pretty good at using solder wick.  :P

I've done a few projects recently using 0.4mm LGA/QFN footprints (accelerometers mostly). Those things are twice as tricky because there are no exposed leads. If the solder isn't even across all the pads you can get shorts (if there's too much) or open connections if the chip ends up floating too high off the board.

For the super small footprints, I apply the smallest amount of paste I can manage and then reflow the paste with hot air on the naked board (i.e., no chip). The idea is to get nice even bumps of solder on the pads. Next, I clean off any excess solder with an iron, and remove scrub off the used flux. Fresh flux goes on the board and I place the chip and use hot air from below to reflow the bumps. It is an ordeal, but it gets the job done if you're patient.
 

Offline AlexTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 175
  • Country: gb
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 03:39:50 am »
Poll added - hope it is extensive enough  ;)
 

Offline strobot

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 45
  • Country: 00
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2013, 04:22:25 am »
Quote
... and I actively try to use the smallest packages as they are electrically better and look cooler
This answer is a bit restrictive.  I prefer SMT over through hole and have the ability to assembly 0603/QFN, but 9/10 times I'm going to choose a SOIC over a QFN package if it is available for the IC I'm interested in.  SOIC packages are much easier to probe and debug, and are more standardized for things like opamps and MOSFETs.  I'll only go for QFN if board space is critical.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 04:26:24 am by strobot »
 

Offline AlexTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 175
  • Country: gb
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2013, 04:47:21 am »
Quote
... and I actively try to use the smallest packages as they are electrically better and look cooler
This answer is a bit restrictive.  I prefer SMT over through hole and have the ability to assembly 0603/QFN, but 9/10 times I'm going to choose a SOIC over a QFN package if it is available for the IC I'm interested in.  SOIC packages are much easier to probe and debug, and are more standardized for things like opamps and MOSFETs.  I'll only go for QFN if board space is critical.

There are way too many scenarios to capture in a poll, but hopefully we will get a flavour if enough people vote.
I think a descriptive answer like the one you and others gave is better.

 

Online Psi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10474
  • Country: nz
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2013, 05:24:59 am »
The two reasons i use SMT at home are..
 SMT is faster (solder paste + oven or even hot air gun).
 SMT is smaller (more cost effective due to using a smaller PCB and having a smaller product overall)
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8618
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2013, 05:26:17 am »
Other - yes I do BGA and even CSP. A microscope and good tweezers is essential, along with a hot air station, but other than that (and the occasional lost part) I think it's not too bad... then again, I've played with bare die so my sense of scale is probably quite distorted.
 

Offline Alana

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 297
  • Country: pl
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 05:55:24 am »
I'm stuck with home made boards and i haven't mastered 2 sided boards yet. And this means that its often better to use THT because i can use space under bigger/longer components [resistors, diodes, some caps] to squeeze some traces. Thats why its mostly THT but if i can get away with SMT caps or resistors i use them because its less holes to drill.
 

Offline Mike S

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: us
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 12:24:52 pm »
I tend to use only SMT parts with home made boards and a silkscreen solder mask, but I feel this sort of holds me back since I haven't had a reason to learn the proper way to set up a board file for a PCB house.

 

Offline M. András

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1014
  • Country: hu
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 12:45:41 pm »
I tend to use only SMT parts with home made boards and a silkscreen solder mask, but I feel this sort of holds me back since I haven't had a reason to learn the proper way to set up a board file for a PCB house.
its easy if the cad tool have a proper cam software built in. hit generate gerbers and you select the layers and almost done most of the other stuffs meant for more advanced things
 

Offline G7PSK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3893
  • Country: gb
  • It is hot until proved not.
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 06:19:45 pm »
THT & SMT whats that. I use square copper onto which I wind silk thread and go point to point with nice right angle bends on a piece of ebony or slate. I find that its much easier to lift components with a gantry or fork truck. :-DD
 

Offline AlexTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 175
  • Country: gb
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2013, 06:33:32 pm »
THT & SMT whats that. I use square copper onto which I wind silk thread and go point to point with nice right angle bends on a piece of ebony or slate. I find that its much easier to lift components with a gantry or fork truck. :-DD

Typical ham radio extremist!  :-DD
 

Offline 8086

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1085
  • Country: gb
    • Circuitology - Electronics Assembly
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2013, 06:41:58 pm »
I actively use SMT parts because they are smaller and can be reflow soldered.

With the dawn of services like seeed and itead's PCB manufacture service, you can lay out a SMT board and not have to deal with TH at all.

I only use TH for connectors (and breadboarding) really nowadays.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:34:41 pm by 8086 »
 

Offline Dave

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1356
  • Country: si
  • I like to measure things.
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2013, 06:50:06 pm »
I try to avoid through-hole as much as possible, mainly because I like to etch my own prototypes, and drilling holes is an unnecessary hassle. I am not the biggest fan of QFN, but I can work with them. I avoid BGA, for obvious reasons.
My favorites would probably be QFP and SSOP. I like my resistors and caps in 0603.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:41:04 pm by Dave »
<fellbuendel> it's arduino, you're not supposed to know anything about what you're doing
<fellbuendel> if you knew, you wouldn't be using it
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3575
  • Country: us
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 07:18:06 pm »
I'm pretty new to hobby electronics and have yet to dive into SMTs much, but it seems to me that besides mastering the required soldering skills, the other disadvantage of using SMT for hobby work is the required use of PCBs.   

For prototyping there's bread-boarding that requires TH of course - but also with so many options --  using perf, strip or proto board, dead bug or Manhattan style available to build with TH,  it doesn't make much sense for many (not all) one-off projects to go to the effort of PCB design and production. Does it?
 

Offline Fsck

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1157
  • Country: ca
  • sleep deprived
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2013, 07:33:00 pm »
proto in through hole, finish in smt, unless it's a one off in which I might just leave it in a haphazard through hole.
"This is a one line proof...if we start sufficiently far to the left."
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3575
  • Country: us
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2013, 07:46:16 pm »
proto in through hole, finish in smt, unless it's a one off in which I might just leave it in a haphazard through hole.

But that's my point.  Almost all hobbyist work is going to be a one-off - isn't it?
 

Offline Fsck

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1157
  • Country: ca
  • sleep deprived
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 08:01:03 pm »
proto in through hole, finish in smt, unless it's a one off in which I might just leave it in a haphazard through hole.

But that's my point.  Almost all hobbyist work is going to be a one-off - isn't it?

sometimes you make more than one, or you want one absolutely minimalistic item. it's just it'd take forever to write out.
other times, I'm just too lazy to have to work out an smt board and just rig up through holes on a perf/strip/universal pcb.
"This is a one line proof...if we start sufficiently far to the left."
 

Offline Flávio V

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • Country: pt
  • Capacitor lover
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2013, 08:13:48 pm »
My SMD component history is very short because i only started using then 2 months ago, was a SOIC, some 0603s, SMB diode, SMD lytics and i absolutely loved it, much easier to solder than hole components, smaller, cheaper, more professional looking, easier to lay a 2 layer board with medium/high density.

After soldering a bit SMD, now i can't solder that well regular hole components, so hard. :-DD
 

Offline M. András

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1014
  • Country: hu
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2013, 08:22:56 pm »
best part of the reflow method when you place the little componens the paste will pull it in place when yo heat it. was really fun seeing those little lpfak nxp fets float into their place and the excess formed a little ball outside stencil rolled up a bit its mylar or similar material not ssteel its damn expensive
 

Offline hans

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1727
  • Country: 00
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2013, 08:33:38 pm »
I work in SMT as much as possible. 0402, 0.5mm QFP/SSOP, no problem. I have not yet tried QFN or BGA, because I don't have a hot air station at home.

I have developed a hatred towards 0.1" pin headers, because they are SOOO huge. However, because other connectors I look at usually require like crimp tools or not interchangeable I keep them around.

I have a limited amount of through hole stuff at home for breadboards and veroboard, as well as SMT breakout boards. This way I make a revision zero version (if it's not too much work) and order the first version in SMT.
However, for most digital stuff I am mostly confident it will work and order it in SMT right away.
 

Offline strangelovemd12

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 102
  • Country: 00
Re: State of SMT in the hobbyist's lab
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 11:14:17 pm »
I refrained from the poll, since I can't really identify with any of the options, but I'll throw my 2 cents in.

As someone who is just jumping into proper electronics (used to be into electrics, as it were) the first thing I noticed when I started browsing around and gathering the state of things was that there is no point even trying if I wasn't going to face up to SMT.  I figured there was no use learning everything required for even basic circuit and project design if I was going to limit myself by the many constraints of all/mostly TH designs.  Parts availability, cost, size, heat dissipation, etc. made SMT a clear necessity, so I jumped in head first. 

SOIC packages are nothing major, since I have good eyes and no hand tremors.   Resistors down to 0603 are fine, but I give them more space on the board than any competent person would so that I can more easily avoid bridging.  I think moving into 0402s is only a matter of using up my 0603 stock, and convincing myself that buying 0603s and up on the grounds that it would make building a pick n place a whole lot easier is not completely sane.  I keep a couple 80pin 0.5mm QFPs on the corner of my desk and occasionally glare at them.  I know they mock me when I sleep.  My goal was to have one in a working circuit by the end of the year, but I am on track to fail since I have eased up on the "basic skills" learning curve in favor of applying what I've learned so far.  I.E. dicking around with basic circuits and figuring out what I did wrong.

I really advise anyone getting into electronics to jump on the SMT wagon from the start.  It is only intimidating until you've soldered your first couple chips.  Then it's mostly fun.  And cursing.
Please hit my ignorance with a big stick.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf