Author Topic: Supercapacitors how do they really work  (Read 546 times)

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Offline robintTopic starter

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Supercapacitors how do they really work
« on: March 20, 2024, 10:48:22 am »
Hi Guys
I need help here, I have been searching for months now to try and find a plausible explanation of how a Supercapacitor really works. Please dont offer comments of an elementary nature or refer to classic caps.  This is a serious question for technical/scientific informed views.  No idle speculators :-+
I am a real engineer with quality training and background so I can spot all the specious rubbish published about the mysteries of Supercapacitors - its frustrating to have my time wasted with yada yada.  Please help here if you can with links.

Until recently I hade never come in contact with high values > 500uF electrolytics.  So the concept of 5000F is fantastic to me 10^7 x bigger.

I am aware of the properties of Activated Carbon (AC) and it has a surface area far greater than normal charcoal (ca 1500m2/g vs 5m2/g)

A lot of terminology gets mixed up by ignorant writers as a Capacitor is not like a battery which is electrochemical in operation.  I a capacitor we have charge collection plates, a thin coating of AC, a separator allowing ionic transport and an electrolyte for the movement of ions to the charge collection plates. AFAIK electrodes dont come into it?

Now we should all be familiar with C = e*eo*A/d  eo = fundamental permittivity 8.84*10^12

So we take 2 plates (collectors) in a tank, fill with electrolyte, coat collectors with AC (btw AC doesnt stick to metals), put a separator (which can be a simple sheet of paper) between the two to allow ion transfer but not electrical current - so it insulates between the two collectors (but SCs have a inherent high leakage current BTW).  AFAIK because the AC has a high surface area it can collect a large amount of ions due to applied electric field (is this right?).  The movement and arrangement of such a large amount of ions close together is what creates a large capacitance and storage of energy.

A disadvantage is that AC is a poor electrical conductor and so additional powders (like graphite which doesnt have large area ) have to be added to make an SC work.

There are several experimenters who claim to have made SCs on YT only one I found an amateur dabbler worth mentioning here and he claims to make a 500F capacitor in a fliptop peppermint packet. 
Start here

Test results (sort off)


Sorry it comes across as Mickey Mouse but at least the guy is trying real methods, not armchair speculation so be forgiving


Thats as far as I got, discarding 99.9% of the rubbish on GGLe
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing in the Lithium world
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Supercapacitors how do they really work
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2024, 11:12:11 am »
Look it's a homemade supercapacitor. Cuts the video. Here is the test of the supercapacitor.  :palm:
So unlike regular capacitors, that rely on electrostatic-ism (is that a word?) to store energy, supercapacitors store it in a chemical way. Just like batteries. But it's a less energy dense, and more reversible chemical process.
 

Offline robintTopic starter

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Re: Supercapacitors how do they really work
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2024, 08:28:13 am »
How does this "electrochemical" way work, thats what I want to find out.  I cant find any scientific explanation  just people and uber hype stringing buzz words together

Science, engineering not smoke and mirrors please |O
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing in the Lithium world
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Supercapacitors how do they really work
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2024, 08:38:40 am »
How does this "electrochemical" way work, thats what I want to find out.  I cant find any scientific explanation  just people and uber hype stringing buzz words together

Science, engineering not smoke and mirrors please |O
There is a quite detailed wiki page on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_layer_(surface_science)
 
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Offline Marco

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Re: Supercapacitors how do they really work
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2024, 07:45:33 pm »
Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudocapacitor

Though it's a bit handwavey still.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 07:48:15 pm by Marco »
 

Offline MarkT

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Re: Supercapacitors how do they really work
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2024, 10:29:56 am »
And yet another good Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
 
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