Author Topic: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits  (Read 35311 times)

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Offline StillTrying

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2021, 09:58:06 pm »
I changed the resistor values and moved R1, as suggested by the responses to my post. The simulator shows it will work from 1V to 1.6V, which should be good for an AA cell. I'll have to breadboard.

It worked that one when I made the .asc match the schem. it seemed to work at a bit slower pulse rate without the 47k.
.  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline DabbotTopic starter

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2021, 01:08:30 am »
I changed the resistor values and moved R1, as suggested by the responses to my post. The simulator shows it will work from 1V to 1.6V, which should be good for an AA cell. I'll have to breadboard.


Operates down to just under a volt from my testing.
For other transistors I tested, namely 2222/2907, 3904/3906 and 548/558, it stops working around 1.1V.

Also, the .asc you uploaded is for the original version.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2021, 09:15:00 am »
I changed the resistor values and moved R1, as suggested by the responses to my post. The simulator shows it will work from 1V to 1.6V, which should be good for an AA cell. I'll have to breadboard.


Operates down to just under a volt from my testing.
For other transistors I tested, namely 2222/2907, 3904/3906 and 548/558, it stops working around 1.1V.

Also, the .asc you uploaded is for the original version.
I've updated the .asc file in my post.

I know this thread is about discrete circuits, but have you tried a low voltage CMOS logic gate oscillator?

The 74AUP2G14 will work down to 0.8V, which is below half the forward voltage of a red LED.
https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1994607.pdf
 
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Offline cliffyk

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2021, 01:49:43 pm »
Consider this a place to share and discuss methods of flashing an LED from a <= 1.5V power source (single alkaline / NiMH cells, etc).

Flashing at what frequency, duration, periodic or random?

This is just a plain ol' flickering LED running at 3.0 to 3.3 V directly wired (no resistor) to 2 AA cells:

(click image for video)
-cliff knight-

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Offline DabbotTopic starter

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2021, 06:46:48 am »
Flashing at what frequency, duration, periodic or random?
Yes.  ;D

This is just a plain ol' flickering LED running at 3.0 to 3.3 V directly wired (no resistor) to 2 AA cells:
Here we're focusing on simple circuits which can blink an LED from 1.5V or lower, which requires a charge pump or boost converter.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 08:06:40 am by Dabbot »
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2021, 05:32:03 pm »
A Joule Thief circuit can be used to drive a self-flashing, or flickering LED.
 

Online doktor pyta

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Offline BrokenYugo

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2021, 03:42:35 am »
Submitting for Ye Olde blocking oscillator ("joule thief").

A relevant property of the blocking oscillator is, when gain is adequately high, it can kick on with very little bias indeed, and then do a single cycle, or burst of cycles, depending on the values of base resistance and capacitance.  When the time between bursts is quite long, well, it visibly flashes.

I once made a reasonably-scaled joule thief, that is, capable of about a watt into an illumination grade LED:



Of course you'll notice that's a 1.5V cell (or 1.2V, I most often have a NiMH in it), so it's doing the business.  It's more of a flashlight than a flasher, but I'll get to that in a moment.

That's a 3A low-Vce(sat) transistor (such as PBSS303NX), which boasts quite excellent hFE and Vce(sat), even up to quite high currents.  And, so it seems, down to low currents as well.  The switch selects between open, 1k and 100R for the base bias, giving "off", low and high power settings.  If I touch my finger across the switch terminals while in the "off" position, I can make it blink at some fractional Hz as my skin leakage (~Mohm) charges the base bypass cap, which eventually kicks over and fires off one pulse.  And being the pulse is a few watts, it's quite brightly visible despite being only some microseconds in duration.

I managed to build one with just a chinesium 2N3904, values were all guessed or found experimentally, and the core was just the first one I found in the junk box, so I'm sure it can be improved on. I'm not sure what the 10 ohms on the emitter is doing (discovered accidentally trying to scope the current waveform), but it makes it brighter. Flashes much faster and dimmer without the 1nF and 10R, pretty bright with the 1n (flattens the pulse?), almost makes me see spots with the 10R added. Not sure why it likes such a big base capacitor, but it does, I think it's just firing a single pulse (I need to get a better oscilloscope), so the big cap puts more energy through the base?

Next I think I'll try to make it blink a neon just to up the difficulty.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 04:12:51 am by BrokenYugo »
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2021, 12:35:29 pm »
Yes, it's possible to combine both the low and high frequency oscillator into one circuit, so it produces bursts of higher voltage pulses to flash an LED. This is known as a squegging oscillator.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squegging
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/weird-one-transistor-led-blinker-circuit/msg1981934/#msg1981934
https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/zjy5g2/simple-jt-flasher/
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 08:03:59 pm by Zero999 »
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Discrete Low Voltage Flashing LED Circuits
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2021, 02:15:31 pm »
The large capacitor tends to prefer squegging over single pulses; it has to do with the relative time constants of the inductor, drive current and hFE, and bias resistor and bypass capacitor.  When the bypass cap is adequately discharged during a cycle, it will tend to do single pulses.  A smaller value then gives shorter pulses, and larger values give burst operation.

I find base resistance tends to impair function; it seems excessively strong base drive isn't a problem after all, meanwhile maintaining drive strength until end of pulse seems more beneficial.  This may have a different priority for squegging (burst mode) operation, not sure.

Squegging can be somewhat discouraged by damping the output network.  Consider: if the base capacitor doesn't discharge much during a cycle, then when the flyback pulse finishes, the voltage rings down, overshooting somewhat.  And if this overshoot turns on the transistor, it latches on and goes for another cycle, and so on until the capacitor is too discharged to start up after that last cycle.  Hmm, ah yes, the series limiting resistor should encourage that then -- by limiting base current, at the expense of weaker drive (but if drive strength is adequate, given desired load and pulse width, it should still be fine).

I forget what the transformer ratio on mine was, might've been a bit shy of 1:1.  It's a powder core, something like 1uH total, maybe even less, I'm not sure.  You certainly need more than a few hundred mV at the base to get solid switching action, and a few volts seems optimal.  Over 7Vpp will cause avalanche and runaway operation (avalanche provides bias current independent of the pull-up -- something like a diesel engine ingesting its own oil!).

Looks like you got a powder core as well (yellow-white?) so that will tend to be well damped, and should be free from saturation.  (A common mistake is using something like a ferrite bead; the saturation current even for just a few turns, may be too low to be practical even for a 20mA LED.)  Downside is the poor efficiency.  Ideal is higher Q material, or gapped ferrite.  Rewinding a ferrite spool type inductor is a reasonable [amateur] option.

My flashlight BTW does something like 60% efficiency, between 1.5V input, and like 3.6V output -- as measured with a schottky diode and filter cap instead of the LED.  Which has more capacitance, so there will be some difference in switching behavior, but likely still representative.

Tim
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Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
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