Author Topic: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging  (Read 124914 times)

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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As some may know, I am fortunate enough to own a high resolution X-Ray machine that I use for reverse engineering and investigative work. After recently using the machine to image an inductive probe for a Toneohm 850A, I realised that such images may be of interest to members of this forum.

I have decided to post interesting X-Ray images in this thread. I already have a few saved and will make a point of saving any future images that may be of general interest.

Not all images will be of the highest quality as I sometimes carry out 'quick and dirty'  X-Rays just to identify case fixing positions etc. The MX-20 is capable of very high quality images but it takes time to select the very best exposure and post process the image etc.

I hope this thread will be of interest to the readership  :)

Feel free to comment in this thread, it isn't for pictures only.

Aurora
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 01:26:06 am »
A standard SD card of 4GB capacity.

Note that only half the card is actually a PCB.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 01:29:34 am »
Micro SD Card example 1 - 8GB in size

I was amazed at the track patterns found on these cards
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 01:30:39 am »
Micro SD Card example 2 - 8GB in size
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 01:33:07 am »
Audio Visual spying device incorporating a camera, microphone, DVR PCB and Lithium battery.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 01:35:40 am »
Micro USB Plug - I was checking which pins were connected inside the moulded plug.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 01:39:02 am »
Micro USB splitter with OTG capability and integrated USB HUB.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 01:42:28 am »
Micro USB female connector. I was checking how it was wired. It is charge only, no data pins connected.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 01:44:54 am »
POLAR Toneohm inductive probe investigation.

It has an SMD bobin inductor at the tip.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 01:46:16 am »
POLAR Toneohm Kelvin probes
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Offline Lightages

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2015, 01:51:20 am »
Interesting stuff, thanks.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 01:52:09 am »
Concealed case screws in an Audio Visual spying device.

The screws were sub surface and covered with a hard plastic label. A close up X-Ray of one end shows the additional plastic label covering the screw access holes.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2015, 01:58:49 am »
The SEEK Thermal Camera Dongle
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 02:00:26 am »
An Ethernet to RS232 converter (one of my very first images captured with the MX-20)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2015, 02:01:33 am »
Test Cables - Checking the size of the copper conductors as a quality check.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2015, 02:03:24 am »
Small encapsulated RF antenna (aerial)
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Offline xrunner

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2015, 02:09:31 am »
Cool pics - do you take requests?  :)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2015, 02:10:47 am »
Requests would very much depend upon whether I have the requested object to hand. You can ask though  ;)

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2015, 02:15:40 am »
One of the problems I have posting detailed X-Ray images on this forum is the file size restriction. The MX-20 produces 4MP images that can be quite small or large, depending upon the detail that the JPEG compression has to cope with.

An example is attached. It is a close up image of the Audio Visual spying device that was too large for me to Post. In order to maintain the image resolution I have had to seriously crop it down until it fell below 1000kb

Aurora
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Offline aargee

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2015, 02:24:59 am »
Nice stuff, Aurora.

I wish I could use of these when it comes to repairs of devices with weird and wonderful ways of case construction.
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Offline Melt-O-Tronic

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2015, 07:24:01 am »
Totally.  Freaking.  Awesome.   :clap:
 

Offline Psi

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2015, 07:28:45 am »
i wonder how bad the joints are in a cheap china 20c usb cable :D
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2015, 07:34:35 am »
Very nice thread.
What kind of X-Ray machine do you have?
Can you post a few pictures of your setup?
Thanks
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2015, 01:55:36 pm »
Picture of my system attached. It is a Faxitron MX-20 digital imaging cabinet type X-Ray.

My discussion on X-Ray machine use in the hobby environment is here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/x-ray-machines-technology-and-use-in-hobby-electronics/msg560053/#msg560053

Mike's teardown of an MX-20 machine is here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/faxitron-mx-20-x-ray-system-teardown/msg585230/#msg585230

His machine has a different 'camera' (actually these use an array detector but they call it a camera) with a 2"x2" active area. Mine is a 4"x4" active area. Resolution of both is the same....nice and high.

With regard to rseolution. My unit has 2048 pixels x 2048 pixels in the camera and the active surface is 100mm x 100mm. There are ~20 pixels per mm, or to put it another way, each pixel sees 0.05mm  ;D

The MX-20 was designed for electronics and biology imaging and is limited to 35KVp. As such it is only just in the hard X-Ray region and so cannot penetrate dense materials or metals. It uses a Microfocus X-Ray tube though and these provide a very small target spot so are perfect for high resolution imaging.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 02:34:20 pm by Aurora »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2015, 05:24:49 pm »
GAL20 test to show bond wires

Two shelf positions were tries in the cabinet to see how easily the bond wires could be seen at different physical magnifications. As some may know, the closer you move the DUT towards the X-Ray source, the more magnification you get BUT you also loose definition. Its a bit like shadow puppets  :)

The IC's case is around 12mm x 12mm in size.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2015, 06:00:28 pm »
Some fun with domestic lamps (bulbs in the UK) follows  :)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2015, 06:01:33 pm »
Lamp filiment
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2015, 06:04:24 pm »
Compact Energy saving lamp. Note the little filaments can be seen but the electronics package of this particular lamp was too dense to image well. I have found that most of my low energy lamps have failed with broken filaments so this appears to be their weak point, just like conventional l filament lamps.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 06:07:15 pm by Aurora »
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Offline TopLoser

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2015, 06:11:32 pm »
Lamp filiment

Wow, incredible resolution - if you look carefully you can see the filament is coiled twice.
 

Offline MagicSmoker

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2015, 06:27:37 pm »
Really cool stuff; thanks for starting this thread.

My favorite application for an x-ray imager is to check for voids in the die-attach solder in power semiconductor modules, but I suspect that will require way more than 35kV for the anode supply on the x-ray tube.



 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2015, 06:31:42 pm »
Guess what this is then ?   ;D
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2015, 06:40:45 pm »
The filament breaking on a CFL is actually an end result of the emitter material boiling off with cold starts. Eventually the exposed filament under the emitter will overheat in the thinnest spot and burn out, though the lamp will still light from the high voltage imposed on it. the main cause of failure is the electronics dying, generally the capacitors drying out. The lamp also has so little mercury in it that it will all eventually be bound up into the tube phosphors, so the lamp will not have the right vapour pressure inside to get full current so will dim out ( not helped by the phosphors getting degraded by the high heat and ion bombardment) and the voltage across the lamp gets higher and higher till it will not strike but puts the full ballast power into the filament till that burns out. Even when no longer emitting light the lamp draws power.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2015, 06:41:41 pm »
Guess what this is then ?   ;D

die cast long wheel base landy......
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2015, 07:01:26 pm »
Nope, not a Landrover, but it is a Diecast model  :)
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2015, 07:18:57 pm »
Wouldn't be a minimoke?
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2015, 07:25:59 pm »
SeanB,

Spot on

Its a Dinky Toys Diecast model of the MKI Mini Moke  ;D

Aurora
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2015, 07:30:23 pm »
There are still a few around here, mostly in the military. Used as personnel transport on flight lines.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2015, 07:45:58 pm »
As an example of just how useful X-Ray can be when reverse engineering a sealed product......

The Hewlett Packard Logic Dart was a very clever little Logic 'analyzer' with just 3 channels. It was a graphical logic probe really but HP made a nice job of its design. The calculator and test equipment departments joined forces to design the instrument.

The probes that connected to the Logic Dart were a custom HP part and after the production of the Logic Dart ceased the leads became much in demand as they are the most likely part to break. The price of the lead sets has risen steeply in recent years due to rarity. It is not uncommon to see them sold for over £100 set.

When I first bought my Logic Dart, it was new but without the test leads. It was long believed in the HP user fraternity that the Logic Dart leads contained custom electronics and that rendered the Logic Dart useless without them. I am not one to believe such stories until I have proven it to myself. I dismantled the Logic Dart and found the three input channels were pretty much complete. There couldn't be that much in the leads surely ?

To cut a long story short, I got a chap to measure his Logic Dart leads with a multimeter to detect continuity or resistance. The results were not as useful as I had hoped. I did establish that the leads formed a potential divider with the Logic Dart's input resistance at the chassis socket. I designed what I thought was needed and it worked so I was happy. I released my findings to the HP fraternity. People could now make their own leads.

I later managed to buy a set of the Genuine HP leads and immediately placed one in an X-Ray machine  :) To that point in time, no one was willing to dismantle their precious probe leads as it would likely ruin the them, and they are too rare for that. I managed to get some decent images of the probe head and plug of the lead.

There were indeed components in both, but it was a very simple design and I was pleased to see that my design was correct in all aspects except I had omitted a diode. I had thought of needing a diode but had not been certain it was needed. The diode is in series with an excitation feed for Resistance tests and protects the Logic Dart from reverse voltage feeds. There is already a series protection diode inside the Logic Dart though so this is an HP belt and braces approach.

Anyway, the X-Ray images were good and they were made on an Industrial MicroFocus system.

I have just repeated the imaging using my MX-20. The images wipe the floor with those I made several years ago.

I include my latest images here. you can clearly see the dual diode package.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 07:59:45 pm by Aurora »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2015, 07:46:35 pm »
More images of the probe head.

By changing the contrast and brightness settings in the Faxitron software I am able to include or exclude low density materials from the image. This can show the plastics or exclude them in order to get a clearer view of the metal elements in the probe.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 07:49:49 pm by Aurora »
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Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2015, 08:10:53 pm »
awesome pics! :-+

any chance you making a video about the hardware & setup?

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2015, 08:38:55 pm »
With regret I am no videographer and have no experience of making web videos.

Aurora
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2015, 09:14:02 pm »
Aurora,

Emma cheese it?
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2015, 09:21:37 pm »
Really impressive pictures.

How did you get such a great machine?

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2015, 09:32:18 pm »
It's just medical laboratory equipment that was disposed of under the 10 year rule. I bought it via eBay for £1K. It originally cost several tens of thousands. I am now good friends with two dealers in such equipment.

The unit came with the all important computer, interface and software. It had a very low image count so had seen very little use in its life.

I also have a complete spare MX-20 cabinet just in case the X-Ray generator pops its clogs.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 09:34:18 pm by Aurora »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2015, 09:53:33 pm »
It's bug time !

Some mealworms from my wife's bird food supply  ;D

Faxitron X-Ray units were designed to provide great images of biological samples.

Aurora
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2015, 10:06:55 pm »
On the practical side, equipment licensing, operator liensing, premises licensing/certification...???
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2015, 10:13:55 pm »
A deceased butterfly .........  well as much as I could fit into the forums file size limitation

(No animals or insects were harmed in the making of these images  ;)  )
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2015, 10:18:42 pm »
IconicPCB,

This was already discussed in the threads that I referenced earlier. Australia and the USA are very restrictive.

The UK is pretty sensible about such things and I am a qualified Radiographer working alone, so not an issue for me.

I also have all of the equipment and required knowledge to safety survey my X-Ray cabinet (I used to instruct others on how to do it  ;D )

In terms of other users....... safety is very important and I believe I highlighted this in the referenced threads.  But then again, any idiot can modify a microwave oven and damage others with microwave energy so a lot comes down to the equipment and the trustworthiness of the operator. A cabinet X-Ray such as the MX-20 running only 35KVp is one of the safest ways to use X-Ray that I know of.  35KVp cannot produce X-Ray that can penetrate even 0.5mm of steel, which is why the Faxitron cabinet needs no lead shielding in it.

Its kinda the Holy Grail of X-Ray machines  ;D

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 10:31:10 pm by Aurora »
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2015, 10:35:08 pm »
Thanks Aurora,

I had been considering getting a small setup to be able to inspect PCB assemblies.

Many years ago I had seena hand held isotope based unit with a CCD camera and image converter just for such a purpose.

The licensing had always bothered me.

In any case I shall do some research into owning and operating a machine, may be I can arrange everything required to get a unit going.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2015, 10:46:26 pm »
I have used the Lixi-scope isotope portable X-Ray handheld units.

GREAT care is needed when operating these especially the ones where you view the DUT via an image intensifier that is on axis with the X-Ray beam. They are safe if used correctly. There was also an electric Lixi-scope that had an X-Ray tube instead of an isotope. The beam confinement was not as I would like however and use of these ceased.

Isotope driven machines are a total nightmare to own. The radioactive Iodine isotopes cost around $5000 each and last only 6 months before the image is too dim to work with. Transporting the Isotopes to and from the USA (the only supplier of such we had) is a nightmare these days.

From previous discussions, it is apparent that X-Ray machines tend to be decommissioned in Australia before disposal. For decommissioning the agent usually removes the controller board and X-Ray generator. If the Generator remains, it is normally drained of oil and cable cut to prevent use.

PCB inspection with X-Ray usually requires a much larger and more expensive machine than the MX-20. To inspect the BGA solder balls you need around 120KVp to 160KVp. Much lead shielding is needed. A new Microfocus cabinet X-Ray for such use is presently around £250,000 in the UK.

Dave was interested in X-Ray as well but I believe he discovered that private ownership is not easy in Oz.

Aurora
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Offline Mr.B

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2015, 11:11:21 pm »
Really awesome stuff, thanks for sharing.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2015, 11:26:22 pm »
Some more mundane stuff ...... a 1N5401 diode
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2015, 11:28:10 pm »
And a humble LED...

Yes I know you can see the insides visually on a clear one....but that's no fun is it  ;D
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Offline tautech

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2015, 12:14:40 am »
Marvelous to think this thread is only a couple of days old and how many images already?   8)  :-+
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2015, 12:23:45 am »
Thank you Tautech :)

The MX-20 takes about 30 minutes to warm up, calibrate and flat field the camera. Then it is very simple to make the X-Ray images. Almost as simple as using a digital camera.

The setting of the correct KVp and exposure time does need to be set up carefully, but once set at a particular KVp it does not need much attention.

The dynamic range of the sensor array is quite forgiving.

Aurora

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Offline BravoV

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2015, 12:53:51 am »
Thank you for sharing this.  :-+

Any chance of taking shot of modern/current Intel desktop cpu shots ?

Offline MrWizerd

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2015, 02:15:57 am »
I hope you don't mind my saying that these could easily be offered I up as art, I do dabble in photography as one of my many hobbies and some of these shots would make excellent decor for a tech savvy art collector, heck I have seen black and white themed rooms that large prints of some of these would have fit well...  aside from that it is Defenantly interesting to see build quality before we break in, for instance some of the probes had stray wires, I don't know and doubt they would be a problem in most cases is still interesting to see the quality like that.

Edit: Would it be possible to get a transister, something typical like a L337?

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« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 02:31:34 am by MrWizerd »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2015, 07:34:42 pm »
Had a few spares minutes so fired up the MX-20 again  :)

First a modern Laptop CPU....

Pretty boring really but I was asked to X-Ray one so here it is.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2015, 07:37:04 pm »
Now a transistor.... the MPSA14

You will see the bond wires but not much else. The silicon wafer/junction isn't visible when using the MX-20.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2015, 07:38:41 pm »
LM7805...

Again, sadly not much to see really.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2015, 07:42:00 pm »
A TDK 4GB Flash memory drive.

There is a lot going on in a small space so interpretation is difficult. X-Ray does not really help reverse engineer the schematic in such cases. It might show how to get into the case though  ;)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2015, 07:45:42 pm »
Here is an unusual DUT.... a Computar CCTV lens.

I use X-Ray to investigate the number and shape of the lens elements. When experimenting with unknown lenses this can be useful. I have used this method to identify and characterise Germanium thermal camera lenses that are too valuable to dismantle.

This method also identifies the various screw positions within the lens to aid disassembly.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2015, 07:46:43 pm »
Pens  ;D
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Offline CrashO

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2015, 08:07:39 pm »
Awesome thread. I was just lurking at all the pics but couldn't resist from asking you to keep them coming  :-+
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2015, 08:23:37 pm »
The lenses contains PbO?

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2015, 08:26:40 pm »
Glass is dense enough to stop a 35KVp generated X-Ray beam.

No idea if the lenses contain lead.

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Offline Ysjoelfir

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2015, 08:28:06 pm »
The same goes for me! Those pictures are absolutely awesome, I love them!
Do you think it would be possible to look inside a vacuum tube? Guess the metal casing around the tube system wouldn't allow any view at all, even though it is quite thin?
Greetings, Kai \ Ysjoelfir
 

Offline MrWizerd

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2015, 09:09:47 pm »
LM7805...

Again, sadly not much to see really.

Sweet Thanks!  I was just curious what the inside looked like, I did not expect it to be ultra exciting, but it was informative. I recently watched a video on how the transistors were originally made/invented and was curious how that applied to modern transistors, and that answered the question.  Thanks again!
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2015, 11:13:27 pm »
A few more images to end the day.

First of all Thermionic Valves (or Tubes for US readers)

The MX-20 cannot penetrate the metal parts but then I did not expect it to.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2015, 11:14:36 pm »
Professional GPS Antenna
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2015, 11:16:04 pm »
AOR LA350 Ferrite Rod antenna. FET Pre-amp PCB is adjacent to output plug.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2015, 11:18:30 pm »
Adjustable foot from a Panasonic portable projector. Shows locking mechanism. I went for a close up to see more detail. I was not previously aware that the foot contained a steel rod foe strength.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2015, 11:19:50 pm »
Relay DPDT
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2015, 11:21:01 pm »
HRC Fuse. Still looks serviceable  :)
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Offline Melt-O-Tronic

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2015, 11:25:01 pm »
I love this thread.   :-*
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2015, 11:28:32 pm »
For those interested, a picture of the Faxitron software front end.

The Magnify function is activated in second picture. You can move the magnified square around the image to quickly see more detail or determine if the exposure was OK in intricate areas.

There are menu options down the left hand side. They include tools to adjust the brightness and contrast, sharpness, measurement rulers, Regions of interest, Histograms and all manner of analytical stuff. You can even adjust the contrast in one specific area without changing the rest of the image  :)

I have barely scratched the surface of the menus as I normally just need a quick image in order to make sense of a situation. I shall have to play with the options sometime.

I have several high resolution Mitsubishi and Sony thermal image printers that I bought for use with this machine. I have yet to hook one up but I have a choice of either 4" or 12" paper width models. The 4" is brand new in the box and just awaits me finding time to plumb it into the rack  :)

Thats all for tonight. Bed beckons  :)

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 01:37:58 am by Aurora »
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Offline tautech

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2015, 11:45:02 pm »
For those interested........
:-DD
Who wouldn't be?  :-+

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Offline ez24

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #77 on: September 09, 2015, 05:30:09 am »
Do these x-rays destroy the DUT ?  Can you take an x-ray of your hand?
Nice toy.
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Offline Ysjoelfir

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #78 on: September 09, 2015, 06:34:49 am »
A few more images to end the day.

First of all Thermionic Valves (or Tubes for US readers)

The MX-20 cannot penetrate the metal parts but then I did not expect it to.

If you look closely it actualy did penetrate the metal parts quite good! You can clearly see the heater inside the cathode tube, beautiful! thanks!
Greetings, Kai \ Ysjoelfir
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #79 on: September 09, 2015, 06:48:18 am »
If you look closely it actualy did penetrate the metal parts quite good! You can clearly see the heater inside the cathode tube, beautiful! thanks!

I often find it interesting how much more is actually recorded in an image than we can readily see.  Just some quick fiddling with hue, contrast, brightness and inversion brings out quite a bit more.




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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #80 on: September 09, 2015, 06:57:52 am »
This is one of the best "toys" I have ever seen on eevblog.
Pretty cool.

Can you show a picture of where you place the DUT to take the x-Ray?
Is it enclosed or wide open?
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Offline Molenaar

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2015, 12:40:12 pm »
Very interesting and beautiful as art!

Do these x-rays damage the finer semiconductors, such as the cpu you imaged?
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2015, 12:42:45 pm »
To answer some of the questions...

The DUT is placed in a large chamber that has the X-Ray tube at the top, firing downwards (the safest direction usually). At the bottom of the chamber there is a 100mm x 100mm carbon fibre window. Below the window there is the imaging array. A photo diode array made up of 8  rectangular panels. You can often see the panels in the pictures as I have yet to optimise the imaging and some fresh camera calibration may be needed. Fortunately I have the service manual.

The chamber is fitted with a door that incorporates safety switch to prevent X-Ray emission with the door open.the door seals the chamber against X-Ray egress.

Whilst it is possible to X-Ray live animals in the MX-20, I am not intending to do so. You will note on the images that It produces the X-Ray radiation dose is details in mAs. This is for keeping a record of a live DUT's exposure to non ionising radiation. In some experiments, live DUTs are deliberately exposed to certain levels of X-Ray to irradiate them. I am not into vivisection though  >:(

I would not x-Ray any part of my body in my unit as it has not been recently calibrated and anyway, the door would prevent such experiments. I advise against experimenting with X-Ray on yourself or anyone else.

I shall post a picture of the X-ray chamber later.

Aurora

« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 12:13:30 am by Aurora »
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Offline dom0

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #83 on: September 09, 2015, 12:43:53 pm »
No, x-rays, even with much higher energy (~acceleration voltage) don't damage semiconductors.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2015, 01:02:25 pm »
With regard to damage to the DUT

There are soft X-Rays and Hard X-Rays. Soft X-Rays are known to potentially corrupt data cells in memory devices if the exposure is long enough. The memory is not physically damaged though and may be re programmed. Hard X-Ray is far less harmful to memory cells, hence why airport X-Ray machines are relatively harmless to laptops and memory sticks etc.

In many X-Ray machines an aluminium filter is fitter to the X-Ray generator to stop emission of the soft X-Ray energy. In medical equipment this is done to reduce the non-ionising radiation exposure of the patient as soft X-Rays add nothing to such imaging yet add to the exposure dose.

My MX-20 can drive the tube with a voltage between 15KVp and 35KVp. This covers the range of soft X-Ray production and enters Hard X-Ray production at its higher voltages. I tend to work at around 30KVp for penetration and harder X-Ray emission. The MX-20 does not contain an aluminium Soft X-Ray filter as soft X-Rays are used for some tissue sample images.

Non memory cell related electronics are not harmed by the levels of X-Ray that most medical and industry QC machines produce. 160kVp produces much hard X-Ray energy yet is harmless to a CPU. You can ruin electret microphones with long durations of X-Ray exposure though. It discharges the charge held within the microphones components rendering it useless.


Aurora
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 01:04:16 pm by Aurora »
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Offline BravoV

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2015, 01:04:01 pm »
No, x-rays, even with much higher energy (~acceleration voltage) don't damage semiconductors.

Although not all, but certainly yes for certain unique semiconductors.

 -> X-Ray Effects on Intersil FGA References

PS : Also read the references regarding x-ray vs semiconductor, referred at the last page of above Intersil document.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 01:15:28 pm by BravoV »
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2015, 01:16:53 pm »
@sleemanj

Nice work.

Yes image enhancement certainly brings out the detail. The MX-20 software does have lots of image adjustment capabilities but not false colour. If there is a challenging DUT, I believe that images can be tweaked to reveal otherwise hidden details. This is a laboratory equipment after all. Lots of adjustments, not just a full auto happy snappy machine  ;D

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2015, 02:29:05 pm »
I needed to X-Ray my new FLIR ONE G2 camera to see if the power was connected to the PCB connector (my unit is totally dead) It is going back to FLIR tomorrow so I do not want to open it.

The FLIR ONE G2 provides a good example of the limitation of low energy X-Ray as produced by the MX-20. I can penetrate the case, but not the battery or denser parts of the camera. Whilst I could see the cables from the battery, the connector is hidden under it and cannot be imaged. Such is life. X-Ray is not the panacea to all Reverse Engineering and inspection Challenges.

I include the images here for interest only as they will not win any prizes  ;D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 02:41:26 pm by Aurora »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2015, 02:29:39 pm »
More
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 02:31:34 pm by Aurora »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2015, 02:30:10 pm »
More
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 02:37:56 pm by Aurora »
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Offline wkb

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #90 on: September 09, 2015, 02:34:47 pm »
Professional GPS Antenna

Looks like a mini QFH  :D
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #91 on: September 09, 2015, 02:48:02 pm »
WKB,

That is exactly what it is. A very common antenna type for such systems. I used to use one on 137MHz for the LEO weather satellites such as NOAA etc.

In this case the antenna side elements are likely copper foil wrapped around a foam or polystyrene former. Again common practice for such antennas used at higher frequencies such as GPS and satellite phones.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 02:50:20 pm by Aurora »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2015, 03:17:00 pm »
By readership request, here are some pictures showing the business end of the Faxitron MX-20  :)

By way of commentary for the pictures....

The top section of the machine (its head) contains the X-Ray generator and the control panel. The MX-20 can produce images using its built in digital camera or using conventional X-Ray photographic plates (film). The latter can be done via the front panel with no need of a PC. Indeed, early MX-20's were film only and had no digital camera fitted.

The X-Ray tube is a high performance 12W Microfocus type with Beryllium window. Its beam is shaped and is conical spreading out from the target spot.

At the bottom of the cabinet there is a BIOPTICS 2048 x 2048 X-Ray imaging array that is connected to the PC as a Camera via a custom PCI interface card.

In order to assist in positioning of the DUT in the field of view, there are two lasers producing a cross target on the cameras face and on any DUT placed in the cabinet.

The shelf on which the DUT is placed is made from perspex and has a >100mm x 100mm hole in it. This is to reduce attenuation of the X-Ray beam after it has passed through the DUT On top of the shelf there is a thin low X-Ray absorption sheet on which the DUT actually rests.

The height at which the shelf is fitted in the cabinet dictates the physical magnification that occurs. With the shelf lying on the bottom of the cabinet, the magnification is X1. Magnification via movement of the DUT towards the X-Ray generator provides a larger DUT image whist maintaining resolution at the camera, unlike when using digital zoom techniques. There is a trade off between the magnification of a DUT and the sharpness of the image produced however. This is just basic physics and not a sign of poor performance on the part of the MX-20.

Hope this is of interest.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 03:37:20 pm by Aurora »
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Offline free_electron

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2015, 03:32:08 pm »
As an example of just how useful X-Ray can be when reverse engineering a sealed product......

The Hewlett Packard Logic Dart was a very clever little Logic 'analyzer' with just 3 channels.

I got one of those. use it quite often. They had an ad campaign saying "This is a close as a tricorder as you will ever come"

http://www.pd.infn.it/elettronica/Strumenti/HP%20E2310A.pdf
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2015, 03:45:44 pm »
@free Electron,

I am greedy.... I own four of them complete with leads and the IR linked printers  ;D

They were being sold so cheaply without their leads that I could not resist them. A huge haul of leads were sold on eBay and I did a deal with the buyer to buy some lead sets at a very reasonable cost of IIRC $36 per set of 3 leads. I later found a complete Logic Dart lead set with the explorer probe etc. I bought the forth Logic Dart quite recently and at a great price. As new with all leads still in their sealed bags  :)

I actually like the design and it sits with my multimeter very well. Convenient for quick checks on data lines.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 03:52:27 pm by Aurora »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2015, 05:04:59 pm »
The X-Ray party will have to take a short break now as I am moving kit around in the garage as part of a major sort out. I will have neither the room nor time to play for a while. I also need to do some maintenance on the MX-20 that has been due since I bought her. The camera communications cable has a connector that needs some attention, so that will get done while the machine of down.

Interestingly the cable is marked up as for Universal SCSI. I will check how it is wired as it would be great if its a COTS cable.

A quick check shows that Madison Extreme make standard SCSI cables and my cable is from Madison Extreme.... looking promising.

Back here soon with (hopefully) more interesting images

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 05:11:43 pm by Aurora »
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Offline dom0

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2015, 05:14:51 pm »
Looks like an IBM-style SCSI-2 cable to me. Should have 60 pins or so.
,
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2015, 05:35:20 pm »
Close but not quite close enough.

It is in fact a SCSI 4 VHDCI male to male cable. Its hard to tell without having a scale next to the plugs in my pictures. The D connector part is 32mm wide and contains 68 contacts. SCSI VHD for sure.

I have just ordered a couple of high quality replacements, so I will not need to mess around with the damaged one.

Thanks for your comment though  :)

I do like it when an OEM uses COTS cables. So much easier when the cable gets damaged.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 05:45:08 pm by Aurora »
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2015, 06:32:36 pm »
Mealworms might not have been harmed in the Xray, but I doubt that all are enjoying the visible meal of corn starch they are easting, seeing as some surely went down the beak of a very happy dinosaur relation.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2015, 08:17:51 pm »
For more info on this machine (mine has the smaller 2" sensor :()


The biggest limitation is the low kvp, which has minimal penetration through any significant thickness of metal or ceramic.
Another issue on mine is the small sensor - at some point I plan to make an X/Y stage so it can automatically do multiple tiled shots.

Here are a few random pics
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #100 on: September 10, 2015, 02:13:38 pm »
Nice images Mike  :-+

My unit shows the array panel edges and some noise when you reduce the ADU span to pull out more detail.

Your array looks to be very low noise  :-+

I have yet to experiment with the cameras calibration in the service menu. It may just need the auto camera calibration routine to be run to update the fixed calibration data for the array.

I'll have to check it out but I need to work out what some of the calibration options mean first. The BIOPTICS camera appears to be quite a sophisticated beast when looking at the calibration menu.

Sorry I did not find you a 4" x 4" machine, but you may be interested to know that there have been no better units since I found yours. The source seems to have dried up at the moment. I think we got a great deal on these two units though at around £1K. I hope you can modify your unit to meet your needs.

Aurora

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #101 on: September 10, 2015, 02:29:42 pm »

I'll have to check it out but I need to work out what some of the calibration options mean first. The BIOPTICS camera appears to be quite a sophisticated beast when looking at the calibration menu.

"Sophisticated" or maybe "Needs a lot of fettling to work well" perhaps....
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2015, 03:28:44 pm »
Indeed  :-DD

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Offline MK

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2015, 08:08:43 pm »
The lenses contains PbO?

Alexander.
Some of the internal lenses might be calcium fluoride for dispersion control, that would also hinder x rays better than sodium silicate.
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #104 on: September 11, 2015, 02:54:35 pm »
I used to service CT machines. For humans, designers go out of their way to filter the X-ray spectrum from the tungsten anode.  You might try thin filter sheets of copper, nylon, and aluminum at the source to adapt the X-ray spectrum for better high contrast imaging. If HP has not done that already.    I spent more hours then I care to admit shaping and calibrating CT contrast materials

Just an idea.

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #105 on: September 11, 2015, 03:16:51 pm »
…………………...- *" \ - "::*'\
………………„-^*'' : : „'' : : : :: *„
…………..„-* : : :„„--/ : : : : : : : '\
…………./ : : „-* . .| : : : : : : : : '|
……….../ : „-* . . . | : : : : : : : : |

Meaning ?
Batteriser troll I suspect.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #106 on: September 11, 2015, 03:20:35 pm »
I am a little bemused by the apparent posting by EEVBlog.

If Dave does not like this thread I will delete it but a PENIS picture is not what I would expect from Dave.

If it is a hack of Daves account, that is very worrying.

Aurora
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Offline firewalker

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #107 on: September 11, 2015, 03:25:56 pm »
The user name is eevblag. It's a normal account.

Alexander.
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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #108 on: September 11, 2015, 03:52:19 pm »
…………………...- *" \ - "::*'\
………………„-^*'' : : „'' : : : :: *„
…………..„-* : : :„„--/ : : : : : : : '\
…………./ : : „-* . .| : : : : : : : : '|
……….../ : „-* . . . | : : : : : : : : |

Meaning ?
Batteriser troll I suspect.

No they would not be this stupid, it's mojo-chang
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 04:11:49 pm by Simon »
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #109 on: September 11, 2015, 04:10:41 pm »
Have just read the moderation report thread. The situation is now clear. A banned member making mischief.

I said I would not place a living creature in my MX-20 to cause harm to it. Well it looks like there is some pond life out there for which I will happily review my no harm policy 😆

Why graffiti this fun thread. Not the actions of a nice person at all.

Simon, I hope you can find a way to expunge this pond life from this forum once and for all.

Aurora
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Offline ez24

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #110 on: September 11, 2015, 07:45:44 pm »
Quote
I said I would not place a living creature in my MX-20 to cause harm to it.

Good but can you explain why your machine would hurt something?  After all we all get x-rays at the doctors including my dogs.  I assume it has something to do with power?

Does this unit have a safety door that would prevent you from x-raying your foot?

thanks
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #111 on: September 11, 2015, 08:02:49 pm »
X-Ray generators used correctly are not unsafe. That is a fact.

I was not being serious about harming animals  ;)

The issue of damaging living tissue does arise when high levels of X-Rays are use to irradiate the tissue using a long exposure. The scientist who first experimented with X-Rays lost both his hands due to ionising radiation induced cell damage. X-Rays are capable of doing harm if misused.

My MX-20 uses a maximum of 35KVp on the tube and you would have to work very hard to harm yourself with it  ;D

My unit is intrinsically safe and has a door plus safety interlocks to prevent X-Ray leakage.

The MX-20 can be used to irradiate animals such as Rats and Mice to study the effects on their tissues. I would not do such however.

Also be aware that any animal placed in the MX-20 needs to be still so anaesthetic would be used and this always carry risk to the animal. The other way to get the animal to stay still is to kill it first :o

http://www.faxitron.com/life-sciences-ndt/pre-clinic-imagingirradiation

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 11:44:35 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #112 on: September 14, 2015, 01:38:52 pm »
Yay !, Two nice new SCSI IV VHDCI cables have arrived for the Faxitron (I bought a spare cable)

They are a quality DEC product using Amphenol connectors. Normally around $100 each in the USA but I got the pair in the UK for £12 each  :)  Very pleased as a male to male VHDCI cables are not that common at good prices.

Happy Days  :-+

Fraser
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 02:03:54 pm by Fraser »
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2015, 05:18:26 pm »
New in package, bought but never used, so all good for you Fraser. I would guess they came with some expansion box, but the existing unit it replaced already had cables, so they simply unplugged the old and plugged in the new drive.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2015, 06:10:14 pm »
The auction said they were used. A very honest seller who obviously takes the view that old stock should not be sold as new. It was a pleasant surprise to receive new and bagged cables  :)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #115 on: November 12, 2015, 04:25:58 pm »
For fans of this thread, an update.

I bought replacement camera data cables for my MX-20. Sadly I have yet to have a chance to test the unit with them as we are having a new kitchen. The poor Faxitron is buried behind piles of boxes and new appliances in the garage so access is a nightmare. Hopefully when I can get to it again I can take some more interesting images.

I took delivery of a new (to me) high resolution X-Ray machine yesterday. It uses a superb Hamamatsu X-Ray camera with 120mm x 120mm imaging area, like my Biovision camera in my Faxitron. It will be interesting to compare image quality between the two.

My wife was none too pleased to see a large white van turn up and another X-Ray machine appear from within it. It's the usual 'why do you need another' question....... My answer ..... You can never have too many high resolution X-Ray machines ! The kitchen installers were certainly impressed...... They think I am some sort of mad scientist.

More posts in this thread from me when life returns to normality !

Fraser





« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 04:35:03 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2015, 04:42:14 pm »
My new high resolution X-Ray Machine 'as received' and sat in my garage awaiting commissioning.

She's a beauty. She may look like my other Faxitron Mx-20 but this is a later MX-20 DC12 digital camera version with the following improvements:

1. High Resolution C9732 Hamamatsu 120mm x 120mm flat plate array camera

2. USB interface between the camera and PC. No need for the bespoke PCI card interface that my other unit uses. The PC can be a laptop as a result.

3. New and improved Faxitron 'SR' control and Imaging software with auto exposure setting so no need to experiment with the KV and exposure times for best image.

4. Complete control of the Faxitron front panel from the PC and SR software.

5. XP Pro operating system rather than 2000 Pro

6. MSi Hetis 915 small footprint PC. I have purchased an MSi Hetis 945 Core 2 Duo as a spare, or possibly in place of the 915. The 945 offers much greater performance.

I also received all the manuals and software CD's for the system so I can install it on another PC Host if needed. An important file that was included on its own CD was the Hamamatsu imaging array defect map. Without this the SR software would not be able to correct for any array dead pixels.

This unit is ex medical lab use and is in excellent condition. It was in use until last month. I have been searching for the updated USB version of the MX-20 since buying the first unit. Fortune smiled on me and as this unit virtually dropped into my lap I could not resist. It will be great to have the auto exposure  capability that the the later SR software offers. Timing could have been better.... the kitchen replacement has filled the garage with kitchen kit so space for the machine was a challenge.

Next steps are:

1. Gentle clean of cabinets, trolley and X-Ray chamber.

2. Removal of any patient data from PC hard disk

3. Back-up of hard disk.

4. Full commissioning tests with radiation leakage survey using several different professional radiation survey meters that are designed for use with X-Ray energies below 30KeV

5. Conditioning cycles for the X-Ray tube to ensure it is ready for use. X-Ray tubes that have not been used for a while benefit from such conditioning.

6. Then......Let the fun begin  :)

I will post X-Ray images from this new Faxitron MX-20 as soon as I have the opportunity. The kitchen refit is taking precedence over all projects at the moment.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 05:45:07 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2015, 05:33:33 pm »
Some more information on the Hamamatsu imaging array used in the new MX-20......

My older MX-20 uses a Biovision imaging array that is made up of 8 separate rectangular panels. These are combined to produce the final image. There are unavoidable dead zones between the panels where edges meet, and the Faxitron 'DR' software has to correct for this. I am still seeing the perimeter dead zones on my images as I am pushing the sensitivity of the array to its limits. Normal exposures do not show such edge artifacts. I likely need to 'tune' the dead zone correction in the camera configuration settings for such challenging exposures, but I have not had time to do so. There are several pixel correction and panel misalignment tuning options offered.

The newer Hamamatsu C9732 imaging array is a single panel offering a resolution of 2400 x 2400 50um pixels over a 120mm x 120mm imaging area. It does not suffer the dead zones of the Biovision array.

The C9732 array is optimised for soft X-Rays at 17KeV, so is nice and sensitive, with excellent data depth of 14 bits per pixel communicated via USB 2.0.

Mike's MX-20 Hamamatsu array from the same series certainly produces excellent imaging so I am hopeful my unit will do similarly.

Looking forward to producing some test images on the new unit  :)

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 03:17:02 am by Fraser »
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Offline xrunner

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2015, 05:42:57 pm »
I like the name "Faxitron". Sounds like it means business.  8)
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2015, 06:00:43 pm »
In the context of X-Ray machines and output energy levels, the Faxitron MX-20 is a real pussycat...... a sheep in wolfs clothing  ;D  That is why I am happy to use it in a controlled, but domestic, situation.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 08:38:02 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Artlav

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #120 on: November 13, 2015, 10:02:45 pm »
My MX-20 uses a maximum of 35KVp on the tube and you would have to work very hard to harm yourself with it  ;D
Actually, that might be worse.
Soft x-rays are absorbed by tissues rather than going straight through, depositing more energy inside.
There was a story about a garage tinkerer cooking his fingers by putting them in front of a 40KV tube for a second or two.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #121 on: November 13, 2015, 10:41:33 pm »


I also received all the manuals and software CD's for the system so I can install it on another PC Host if needed. An important file that was included on its own CD was the Hamamatsu imaging array defect map. Without this the SR software would not be able to correct for any array dead pixels.

Judging by mine I think it can generate this file itself by taking images with no subject.
The faxitron software doesn't seem fussy about hardware platform - I got mine running on a laptop with the generator control via a USB-RS232 converter
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #122 on: November 13, 2015, 11:03:34 pm »
Thanks Mike.

I found several Defect Maps on the hard disk. It appears each time a new version of the software was installed, a new defect map was created. I am not familiar with the SR software operation yet so will have to study it some more. Sadly the documentation does not include the service menu password. Hopefully such is not needed in normal use of the unit.

The MSi PC is PSU is fried (and possibly the Motherboard as well) so I am currently deciding whether to repair it or just transfer the software to the MSi 945 that is on its way.

Mike, can you remind me where the MAC address resides in the SR software please. 

Cheers

Fraser
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #123 on: November 14, 2015, 03:04:30 am »

Mike, can you remind me where the MAC address resides in the SR software please. 

Not sure I ever knew - it's a while ago but I think I ran it by spoofing the address of the machine it came on - I think the license key is a hash of the MAC.
Many ethernet drivers have a facility to override the hardware MAC in device manager->advanced options, and I'm sure there are utilities for any that don't.  A spoofable USB ethernet or possibly bluetooth dongle may also be a possible solution if the software will work if any MAC in the machine (as opposed to just the primary one) .
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #124 on: November 14, 2015, 11:13:42 am »
Thanks Mike. I found your email from January 2015 detailing what you did. I will just replicate that process.

Cheers

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #125 on: November 16, 2015, 02:55:44 pm »
Good news on the new Faxitron MX-20 USB.

The original PC was toast so I needed to load the Faxitron SR software onto another PC. Mike has already done this so I knew it was possible. I thought the following information might assist any future owners of a Faxitron MX-20 USB version.

I decided to do a bit of experimentation with my little Sony Netbook. I have the installation CD for SR versions 1.0, 1.5 and 1.6. I started with v1.5. The software requests a unique Key file as part of the installation. Without this file the software will not run. The Key file contains a complex hash that uses the MAC address of the licensed PC. You cannot, therefore use the Key file on another PC without tricking the SR software into thinking it is on the original licensed hardware.

To make the Key file valid on another PC you have to spoof the licensed PC's MAC address. This is easy as the required MAC address is detailed in the Key file itself. You can then use the Ethernet adapter advanced properties option to set the MAC address to that contained in the Key file.

This is what I did and, as Mike discovered, the SR software happily accepts the Key file and the installation completes with a fully licensed install. There is no 'calling home' by the software during installation.

If you do not have the original Key file you are not going to be able to complete the installation process. This is worth bearing in mind if you find a Faxitron MX-20 without its PC (a common occurrence with disposal equipment as the PC's contain patient data). The Key file may not be present on any accompanying disks as each customer is issued with their own unique key from Faxitron HQ.

There is also a file on the computer after the installation completes that contains the data from the Key file. Whether this can be renamed to be the Key file is not known. The Key file has an unusual name. I will attach a sanitised version of mine for others information on format etc.

It looks like I will be able to install the SR software on a replacement PC so I will not have to repair the original MSI Hetis 915 motherboard. Testing of the MX-20 with the Sony Netbook to follow.

In the attached Key file I have replaced the licensed company name with 'X' and the MAC address is set to 01.02.03 etc. You will see that there is a long Key contained in the file that I have replaced with '0's. This is a hash but I do not know what variables are used to create it. Possibly, licensed company name, expiry date sequence plus the MAC address of the host PC's Ethernet card. The key appears to be valid across all versions of the SR software so the Hash does not contain version specific variables.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 11:09:23 pm by Fraser »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #126 on: November 16, 2015, 10:32:51 pm »
If you do find a machine with no PC or no software, it may be possible to drive the Hamamatsu sensor directly - I did find some Hamamatsu utils, don't recall if on the Faxitron install or at Hamamatsu, though didn't look close enough to see exactly what was possible with them.


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Offline jdraughn

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #127 on: November 17, 2015, 11:27:50 am »
A NFC tag might be interesting to xray, but maybe not, it would probably just show a coil of wire around a little rectangle and that's it.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #128 on: November 22, 2015, 07:00:34 pm »
Well the Faxitron MX-20 USB lives  :)

I bought a replacement MSI Hetis 945 Dual Core 2 (2 x 2.4GHz) SFF PC to replace the dead Hetis 915 P4 3GHz that came with the USB Faxitron machine. I had to import it from Germany ! I wanted the MSI Hetis9xx as it is a decent little PC platform for use with the Faxitron and its software. The alternative that I considered was a Dell USFF PC as they are now very cheap on eBay.

I didn't transfer the hard disk from the 915 as the motherboard chip sets are different (Intel 915 Vs 945) and I wanted a clean XP install onto which to place the SR1.6 software. It avoided any issues with HDD transplantation.

All went well with installing both XP SP3 and SR1.6.The original imaging array Defect Map was transplanted into the new SR install easily. The MAC address on the new PC was changed to that contained within the Faxitron Licence Key file using the Ethernet advanced properties page. No problems there.

Once the new PC was refitted on the Faxitron Cart, and all cables connected, I fired the system up and allowed the Imaging array to warm up for 30 miniutes. The Imaging array was then calibrated and a test image taken.

I am pleased to report that all went well with the first test of the 'new' USB Faxitron. I attach the first image that was captured using the automatic exposure system. This tries several different X-Ray exposures to establish which produces the best image of the DUT. The end result looked too dark to me so I used the image 'window' and centre controls to pull out a little more detail. The image is captured as 14 bit depth ADU's and, like many thermal cameras, the user may select the range of ADU's to be displayed on the screen. Very nice and the window function has improved since my earlier DR software (used on my older Faxitron - Bioptics MX-20).

Here are some pics of the new PC internals and the first images captured by the USB Faxitron. The DUT is a Logitech mouse. I have not had to time to experiment with the images or the defect map as its too darned cold in the garage to play at the moment  :( the images seem nice though so at least this machine is a good one  :)

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 11:34:02 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #129 on: November 22, 2015, 07:04:58 pm »
Mouse
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #130 on: November 22, 2015, 07:05:56 pm »
More Mouse
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Offline mtdoc

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #131 on: November 22, 2015, 07:29:16 pm »
Cool stuff! 

We have a high quality digital X-ray machine in my office. I wish I new how to operate it so I could go in after hours and play. >:D
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #132 on: November 22, 2015, 08:15:43 pm »
If its correctly managed, it will be disabled with a key lock to prevent unauthorised use. Access is not usually enough  ;)

Mine have their activation keys removed when not in use.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #133 on: November 22, 2015, 08:21:05 pm »
My final challenge on the USB Faxitron is to find the administrator password that unlocks advanced options such as creating a new defect map and changing various exposure defaults etc. No joy finding a likely text string in any of the SR program files yet. I will try the UK Faxitron agent, but not holding out much hope of them helping. The systems administrator is given the password but none of the masses of documentation supplied with my unit has it written down. Pity.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #134 on: November 24, 2015, 09:36:04 pm »
For anyone interested in the USB Faxitron MX-20, I attach some pictures of the rack and the user interface. It is currently roughly assembled for testing and is sat in my garage. It will be installed properly next to my other MX-20 in due course.

The user interface is very different to that of my other MX-20 that is running the earlier DR software. I am not used to it yet but first impressions are that the SR software is less user friendly than the DR version. The SR version is likely more capable when it comes to image manipulation however.

The fact that the SR software fully remote controls the MX-20 settings and carries out auto exposure to achieve the best combination of kV and exposure time for a DUT is a significant improvement though.

The external appearance of the USB Faxitron is very similar to that of the Bioptics based Faxitron but the camera connector is obviously different ion that it is a standard USB connector Vs a dedicated SCSI IV type connector. In use it is clear that the firmware in the MX-20 is different in the USB version. The kV steps are the same but the time is shown in seconds and tenths of seconds as opposed to just seconds on the older unit. This enables the SR software to accurately set the exposure for optimum image.

Sorry the pictures are not more interesting but the unit is actually pretty simple in terms of appearance.

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #135 on: November 24, 2015, 10:05:17 pm »
For anyone interested in ......
5000+ views  :-+
Please keep entertaining us Fraser.  :)

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #136 on: November 24, 2015, 10:25:10 pm »
Slightly off topic but I have just purchased a Gendex GXS-700 USB digital X-Ray imaging plate. It is not working but may be repairable as the cables are normally the issue with these units. If it has corrupted serial number (another known issue) it may be scrap but I decided to take the risk as it was cheap.

These X-Ray imaging plates are used by Dentists and I have bought the larger No2 size. It is a fully integrated solution that needs no special interface box etc. Basically a CMOS USB camera with some on board processing. The resolution is excellent. These things normally cost $7000 each !  The software to drive the sensor is free from Gendex so it should be possible to use the sensor without any super expensive dental image management software. A TWAIN software interface is also available.

The construction of the unit is very nice. A highly integrated piece of electronics is located inside the thin sensor head. The technology used is not revolutionary. A high resolution scintillator plate produces light when exposed to an X-Ray beam. The light is passed through a fibre optic light channel array and illuminates the pixels of the CMOS imaging chip. The read-out electronics then converts the pixel data to a format that may be sent over USB for processing by the host PC. The sensor electronics also detects when X-Ray is present and triggers a capture event automatically. Auto exposure functionality stops the image capture automatically.

Technical details of the sensor

Sensor size : 31mm x 42mm

Pixels: 19.5um / 1842p x 1324p / 2.4 Megapixels

Resolution : 25.6 lp/mm

Scintillator : Csl

Camera technology : High sensitivity Enhanced CMOS imaging array

Interface to Host : USB 2.0

Power supply : 5V @ 350mA

The anatomy of the sensor may be seen here along with a description of the parts inside the sensor head. Dexis make the GXS-700 for Gendex. The Dexis version is called the Dexis Platinum sensor.

http://www.dexis.com/sensor-anatomy


As can be seen from the attached picture from an ebay auction..... the sensor is usable for imaging PCB's and chips.
If I get the sensor running I will add images to this thread. In case anyone wonders, I already have a working 65kVp Gendex Dental X-Ray generator that may be used with this sensor plate. I also have the non digital Faxitron MX-20 cabinet (spares for my digital camera units) and the Tel-X-ometer X-Ray experimentation platform. These should all provide enough energy to work with the Csl scintillator used in the sensor.

When used with the Gendex 65kVp dental X-Ray generator I will gain a greater penetration capability, but the down side is that it is open site X-Ray so much greater safety precautions are needed, such as an exclusion zone and stand-off to the user (me)

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 10:36:11 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Wolfram

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #137 on: November 25, 2015, 12:15:28 pm »
Excellent thread, lots of nice photos and information.

I have some pictures to add as well. Unlike the other images in this thread, these were taken on photographic film. It's not as convenient as using digital sensors, but it gives good results at a low cost. The X-ray source is a modern dental x-ray head with a 0.7 mm focal spot, driven by a homemade driver with anode voltage regulation. All the following x-rays were taken with an anode voltage of 70 kV, a focal spot to film distance of around half a meter, and an exposure of around 60 mAs.

I had to scale and compress the images a bit to fit within the attachment size limits of the forum. The first image is an ATXMega Xplain card, the second one is a Noritake 2x20 VFD display. I'll post some more images when I get a chance.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #138 on: November 26, 2015, 12:06:02 am »
@Wolfram,

Nice pictures  :-+

Had it not been for the availability of the Faxitron units at an affordable price I doubt I would have been able to venture into X-Ray imaging at home.  I used to use imaging plates that contained a scintillator screen that illuminated a monochrome Polaroid instant film. It was much like the old Polaroid instant cameras where the developer is in a sachet at the side of the film and is spread across it as it is ejected from the cartridge. I was considering using one of these units at home but the film became obsolete and had a short shelf life anyway. Resolution wasn't great either.

Dabbling with real X-Ray film or even normal consumer photographic film is not something I was keen to dive into as it can get expensive and messy  :) I am so pleased to have a digital solution as it makes my life a lot simpler. Your images are great though. Film with a fine grain structure is often superior to digital imaging anyway.

One aspect of the Faxitron Digital imaging system that is worthy of note is its amazing pixel data depth. The MX-20 cameras have an ADU spec of 16000 as they produce 14 bit pixel value data. That is to say, they can capture 16000 different shades (or tones) of grey. The computer monitor and human eye cannot cope with such excellent data depth, but using the software it is possible to view a window of variable width and centring within the captured ADU range.A nominal human eye can only differentiate between 30  720 shades of grey. I normally set it to 8000 ADU's per image as that is plenty of range for most tasks. This is an advantage over film as it is possible to pull out subtle hidden detail that may otherwise be missed.

For those unaware of the term ADU:

ADU -- Analog-to-digital Unit. ADUs are employed as a measurement of pixel value or brightness. Pixel voltages (numbers of electrons) stored during CCD integrations are converted to ADU integers representing the measured voltage compared to maximum (full pixel) voltages in terms of the full Base 2 dynamic range of the CCD system (12 bit = 2^12th, 16 bit = 2^16th, etc.).

There is plenty on CCD ADU's and pixel data bit depths on the internet.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 09:52:18 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #139 on: November 29, 2015, 05:15:29 pm »
Faxitron and Gendex useful information

For anyone in need of such, I now have the advanced menu password for the Faxitron SR software. This provides access to the Defect Map generator for the Hamamatsu camera array. The utility does everything needed to identify dead pixels etc and create the required map files. Very useful :)

I also have the firmware serial number reprogramming utility for the Gendex GXS 700 digital dental X-Ray plate. They are known to sometimes forget their serial number, rendering them inoperable.

Fraser
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Offline bktemp

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #140 on: November 29, 2015, 07:39:16 pm »
A nominal human eye can only differentiate between 30 shades of grey !
I doubt that.
Maybe the human eye can identify 30 shades if only a single shade is visible at a time, but if you put the steps next to each other a several 100 steps are necessary to make an even gradient without individual steps beeing distinguishable.
I have no idea how the greyscales in the x-ray images are beeing processed, but normal pictures with 256 greyscales use a non linear scaling: Most displays use a gamma value of 2.2. This means the colour value 1 does not have 1/255 the maximum brightness but (1/255)^2.2=1/196964. So a 8bit greyscale image has a dynamic range of more than 5 orders of magnitude (in an ideal case, most TFT LCD monitors have a dynamic range of around 1000:1). That is why most cameras use a 10, 12, 14 or even 16bit ADC to capture the full dynamic range.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #141 on: November 29, 2015, 07:57:24 pm »
This was my source for the potentially incorrect 30 shades of grey differentiation comment.........

http://www.popsci.com/humans-can-only-distinguish-between-about-30-shades-gray

Colour is a very different situation as our eyes perform well in that domain as stated in the above reference.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #142 on: November 29, 2015, 08:10:16 pm »
Some Googling on human grey scale abilities lead me to this interesting paper that discusses this very topic of grey scale perception in medical monitor situations........

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043920/

They detail the complexities of the situation but appear to suggest that a human can detect around 720 shades of grey over a wide luminance range under optimal conditions.

I stand corrected on my previous statement of 30 shades capability of the human eye. The Popular Science posting appears to be inaccurate, unless I misread the article.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #143 on: November 29, 2015, 09:48:18 pm »
My USB Faxitron had a single defective array line that would appear when the higher ADU values were included in an image. I suspected this was an issue with the SR software Defect Map as the file was dated 2007 ! Pretty old as things can change in the array with years of use.

I enabled the advanced menu options this evening and carried out a full warm-up (2 hours), Auto Calibration and then ran the Defect Map generator. The defect mapping utility first carried out a dark field capture, followed by a flat field capture. Defects in the two produced images were identified by the utility and then combined into a single defect map. Out of tolerance pixels or array lines that contain more than 80% defective pixels are captured and dealt with in the image correction algorithms. It is possible for the user to change the acceptable pixel tolerance and percentage of defective pixels in a line that rule the line defective. I used the default settings.

I then took a series of X-Ray images to test the Defect map. I am pleased to see that the one rogue vertical line that used to appear in some wide ADU images is no longer present  :)

If you own a USB Faxitron that is using an old Defect Map, it may well be worth making a fresh one to capture changes in the imaging array. The old one is saved as a .bak file.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 10:17:31 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #144 on: November 29, 2015, 11:31:14 pm »
Pictures of the Dark field and Flat field graphs that the Defect Map utility produces. Just for those with an interest in such  :)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #145 on: November 29, 2015, 11:37:33 pm »
I am still getting used to the SR software but thought I would upload some of my test images for interest. The SR software seems to provide an image that needs very little tweaking in most cases. It is easy to change the ADU window width and centring to pull out hidden detail as well. It behaves very much like a thermal camera in this respect. Narrow ADU window ranges allow the centre setting to be moved up and down to show only certain material densities on the screen.

I hope the readership enjoy these initial images that I produced tonight. I also include some 'Mystery' devices for you to identify. I know what they are but do you ?

Enjoy  :)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #146 on: November 29, 2015, 11:38:58 pm »
More STAMP close ups
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 11:51:33 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #147 on: November 29, 2015, 11:41:36 pm »
NEC LCD Monitor PCB with 80% JPEG quality setting to fit into this forums file size limit.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 11:52:47 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #148 on: November 29, 2015, 11:43:28 pm »
Mystery item No1  :)

A hint........ I can accurately say that it is old  ;)

The band at the top of the second image is actually PVC insulation tape that is across the front of the item covering some terminals. The material around the central dense item is felt padding.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 12:00:28 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #149 on: November 29, 2015, 11:45:11 pm »
And a second Mystery item.

I suspect that this is an easy one for the old boys
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Offline bugs

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #150 on: November 30, 2015, 12:03:41 am »
I'm just guessing...

Item 1: mercury switch
Item 2: fuse
 

Offline kony

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #151 on: November 30, 2015, 12:06:50 am »
My guess would be that first item is full of cadmium and mercury compounds, thrus should have measured about 1,01V at its terminals, when/if not depleted beyond its usable lifespan.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #152 on: November 30, 2015, 12:09:31 am »
@ Bugs,

1. Incorrect  :P

2. Incorrect  :P

@Kony

You know what it is  ;) Correct  :)

Its too old to be usable now.
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Online eliocor

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #153 on: November 30, 2015, 12:21:36 am »
item #2, a quartz resonator/oscillator?
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #154 on: November 30, 2015, 12:32:18 am »
@Eliocor

Correct  :) Its a very old style Quartz Crystal in a Bakelite case. You can see the Bakelite has differences in its density throughout the material....seen as flecks in the image. The image shows that the large lump of Quartz Crystal is held in place between two sprung arms that act as the two contacts. The crystal has been dropped and has moved within the sprung contact arms.

Mystery item 1 is a Weston Standard Cell that was used as an accurate Voltage reference in a 1970's Solartron Bench Voltmeter. Its chemistry still produces a reasonably accurate voltage but it is no longer a reliable reference source.

https://electronicspani.com/standard-cell/

I attach pictures of the two Mystery items
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 12:57:07 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #155 on: November 30, 2015, 12:37:23 am »
A low density DUT now.

I imaged an old used self seal bag.

The MX-20 is good enough to show the difference in density between areas that are just plain polythene and those that have had the writing strips 'painted' on.

The blobs in the bag are detritus contained within and holes in the plastic. Not defects in the imaging array. The noise in the image is due to the small ADU window span that I selected to pull out the detail of the low density bag.

I had to crop this image somewhat as I forgot to reduce its file size before saving it.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 12:44:37 am by Fraser »
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Online IanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #156 on: November 30, 2015, 01:04:25 am »
One aspect of the Faxitron Digital imaging system that is worthy of note is its amazing pixel data depth. The MX-20 cameras have an ADU spec of 16000 as they produce 14 bit pixel value data. That is to say, they can capture 16000 different shades (or tones) of grey. The computer monitor and human eye cannot cope with such excellent data depth, but using the software it is possible to view a window of variable width and centring within the captured ADU range.A nominal human eye can only differentiate between 30  720 shades of grey. I normally set it to 8000 ADU's per image as that is plenty of range for most tasks. This is an advantage over film as it is possible to pull out subtle hidden detail that may otherwise be missed.

I suspect the situation with film is not quite as hopeless as your last sentence suggests. I am not a photographer, but I understand from reading about photography that darkroom techniques exist to pull out hidden detail, for example by means of higher or lower contrast papers and varying exposure times. Also by shading various parts of the image to adjust the exposure in different places. Techniques widely exploited by B&W photographers in the days when the darkroom was where the magic happened rather than the computer.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #157 on: November 30, 2015, 01:54:29 am »
@IanB,

Indeed a photographic picture can be 'pushed' and 'pulled' during transfer from negative to paper print.

I think the situation is a little different with X-Ray film as that is the negative that is used for viewing. It can be duplicated and the duplicate exposure changed. Paper based X-Ray imaging techniques use the image from the fluorescent scintillator plate and the exposure is set by the X-Ray illumination duration that builds the image. It is difficult to extract additional detail out of the final print if the exposure is wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I love analogue film. It wipes the floor with Digital in many cases BUT it does not offer the convenience of post exposure manipulation that Digital captures provide. CR plates are a hybrid that captures the image in the analogue domain and is translated to the digital domain by the laser scanner reader and its ADC circuits. That technology MAY offer the best of both worlds, but sadly the reports that I have received from users in Industry say that Film is still the best media for high resolution quality imaging. An example of such demanding applications is X-Ray imaging of gas turbine engine blades, looking for defects in the metals structure. Sometimes the old methods are still the best, if a little less convenient to the user.

There is also the issue of cost. As Industry knows, X-Ray film is expensive stuff and Digital methods have a high initial cost but the images are almost free after that. I say almost because most companies have an annual support contract cost to consider. This is why Dentists are moving over to the likes of the Gendex digital X-Ray sensors. Such sensors offer inferior performance to the film based images, but they are seen as modern, cost less long term, and convenient.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 04:12:02 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #158 on: November 30, 2015, 07:34:58 pm »
Some more X-Ray images.

First, my car digital air pressure gauge

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #159 on: November 30, 2015, 07:36:32 pm »
SIL DC to DC converter
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #160 on: November 30, 2015, 07:40:30 pm »
FLIR Thermal Camera External battery charger bay.

Note, although expensive as a spare part, it contains no electronics. It is just a plug pack connection socket and battery connectors. Presumably the charge management is either in the plug pack or the battery itself.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #161 on: November 30, 2015, 07:43:53 pm »
Hybrid RF amplifier on Ceramic substrate
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #162 on: November 30, 2015, 07:46:36 pm »
The well known OM345 Hybrid RF amplifier
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #163 on: November 30, 2015, 07:49:34 pm »
MAR8 MMIC in its ESD package
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #164 on: November 30, 2015, 07:52:31 pm »
MC3362P RF IC

I was trying to image the actual Die and the bond wire landing points. The second image got me what I wanted

Image was captures using 31kVp at the tube.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #165 on: November 30, 2015, 07:55:01 pm »
Plessey SL series RF IC in round plastic encapsulation. Die is visible in the second image.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #166 on: November 30, 2015, 07:56:51 pm »
RF transistor. BFR90
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Offline Mr.B

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #167 on: November 30, 2015, 08:13:28 pm »
Fascinating stuff Fraser.
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #168 on: November 30, 2015, 09:13:00 pm »
Geiger Muller radiation probe.

This very nicely made Geiger Muller probe contains the head end electronics and high voltage DC-DC converter.
It requires a 5V supply and outputs TTL level pulses and an audio click in time with the counts.

The unit appears sealed and I wanted to find out how it can be taken apart and the likely identity of the GM tube.

I immediately recognised the GM tube shape and I could also see how the probe is constructed. A hidden grub screw secures the thread of the threaded end cap. Once the grub screw is removed, the rear of the probe is easily unscrewed providing access to the PCB's and GM tube.

The MX-20 is great for unravelling the secrets of case securing systems such as clips and hidden screws.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #169 on: November 30, 2015, 09:35:22 pm »
Inside a plastic cased Power Bank USB emergency charging unit.

Sadly the steel USB connector obscures most of the PCB.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #170 on: November 30, 2015, 09:41:26 pm »
Another Power Bank. Thsi one made by K.I.T and consists of an aluminium cylinder. The USB end appeared to have a joint but this turns out to be cosmetic only. To access the internal parts, a lower screw fit cap needs to be removed.

The MX-20 coped with the aluminium OK as it is a low density material, unlike steel.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #171 on: November 30, 2015, 10:01:12 pm »
An Apple !
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #172 on: November 30, 2015, 10:28:25 pm »
Audi key
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #173 on: November 30, 2015, 10:30:24 pm »
Audi key Responder - note the small ferrite inductor used to couple with the halo inductor around the key barrel.

The component above the inductor is an LED.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 10:33:46 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #174 on: November 30, 2015, 10:48:42 pm »
To help understand teh Audi key X-Ray images, I attach pictures of the dismantled Audi B7 key taken from www.audizine.com.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/199643-B7-Key-Fob-for-B6-DIY

The Responder is located under a small grey cover and resembles an RFID 'chip' commonly used in dogs and cats. This component is independent of the keys main PCB or power supply.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #175 on: November 30, 2015, 11:12:51 pm »
USB to RS232 converter using prolific Technology chipset.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 03:37:18 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #176 on: November 30, 2015, 11:14:41 pm »
FLIR PM570 thermal camera EVF
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 11:16:38 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #177 on: November 30, 2015, 11:53:20 pm »
Panasonic 'Lipstick' Camera

Not much in the way of active electronics within, just the CCD chip ? The cameras controller unit is stuffed with electronics though.

I need to open this camera so wanted to see how best to do so.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 12:01:55 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #178 on: November 30, 2015, 11:58:30 pm »
I recently bought a cheap PID from China to control my 3D printer build platform heater. I will be taking it apart for inspection but thought you might like to see its X-Rayed.

The X-Ray images show that the electronics are concentrated on the front panel with the bulky components like the relay mounted on a sparsely populated separate PCB. It appears that I could reduce the bulk of this PID significantly as it is all low voltage so isolation distances are not such an issue.

Fraser
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Online KE5FX

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #179 on: December 01, 2015, 12:15:56 am »
Very cool shots, Fraser.  Are these all taken with the GXS 700 sensor, or film?
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #180 on: December 01, 2015, 12:24:35 am »
@KE5FX,

No these are taken with the Faxitron MX-20 cabinet system. The AEC seems to set the voltage to 31kVp in most cases and just adjusts the exposure time. I will be playing with manual setting of the voltage and duration in due course as I found that I could produce better images of challenging DUT's that way. (using my older Bioptics camera MX-20)

The Gendex sensor area is small in comparison to that of the MX-20. The USB DC12 MX-20 has a 120mm x 120mm sensor area and the DUT is moved closer to the X-Ray Generator in some of my images in order to provide magnification. None of my images have been digitally magnified, but that is also an option with these highish resolution 4MP images.

The Gendex sensor is still winging its way to me from the USA. It cost me $100. It is not working but includes the important calibration file. I thought it worth the risk, and I will learn about it whilst carrying out a repair (if such is possible)  :)

The Gendex sensor is a more limited device in that, even though it is Size 2, it is quite a small imaging area. This is offset by decent resolution. Size is sometimes not so important when dealing with imaging a small PCB, or part of a larger PCB. I personally like having a larger imaging area as it is more versatile. The down side is that the large Hamamatsu digital X-Ray cameras cost a small fortune new, so are less common on the secondary market. For me, this 'new' USB Faxitron with DC12 camera is about as good as I could wish for, and meets my needs perfectly. Its so fast at taking an image (around 30 seconds per image, depending upon DUT)  :)

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 12:34:42 am by Fraser »
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Offline Pjotr

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #181 on: December 01, 2015, 05:49:41 pm »
Nice pics  :) Didn't read the whole tread but can your machine only do gamma-rays or also alpha-rays?
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #182 on: December 01, 2015, 06:30:46 pm »
AFAIK The MX-20 produces only Gamma X-Ray using a voltage of between 15 and 35kVp accelerating electrons into a Tungsten Target. The Alpha sources that I have seen have all been from a Radioactive element, such as Americium 241, and not produced in an electron acceleration tube. Such a tubes output window would have to be very thin indeed to avoid massive Alpha attenuation. Alpha would also be severely attenuated in free air, making its usability in a non vacuum cabinet very limited indeed. I am not a nuclear physicist though so this is outside of my experience.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 06:32:57 pm by Fraser »
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Offline moya034

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #183 on: December 02, 2015, 03:29:57 pm »
Great thread Fraser!

If one wanted to get a device x-rayed but didn't want to get their own x-ray machine, what kind of business might be willing to help one out for a nominal fee?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #184 on: December 02, 2015, 03:52:08 pm »
Great thread Fraser!

If one wanted to get a device x-rayed but didn't want to get their own x-ray machine, what kind of business might be willing to help one out for a nominal fee?
The most accessible would typically be a local vet, dentist or doctor.
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Offline bookaboo

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #185 on: December 02, 2015, 05:00:04 pm »
Great thread Fraser!

If one wanted to get a device x-rayed but didn't want to get their own x-ray machine, what kind of business might be willing to help one out for a nominal fee?

There's a business model in there somewhere!
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #186 on: December 02, 2015, 08:15:05 pm »
I have considered offering an X-Ray imaging service but there are complications with such a service.

1. The fee...... What is a reasonable price to charge ?
2. Managing Customer expectations regarding what an X-Rar can reveal, especially through metal.
3. The cost of shipping and its effect on offering a reasonable total cost for the customer.
4. Commercial use could potentially attract attention from the national authority for using such equipment. I comply with safety standards but don't fancy paying fees for licensing the kit for commercial use.
5. I was a Civil Servant without the profit mentality.... I am no businessman !

If someone wants something imaged using my MX-20's I feel sure I could help but it would be on a casual basis with a small fee for my hobby account. If anyone wants something imaged, just message me and we can discuss.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 08:23:56 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Pjotr

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #187 on: December 02, 2015, 09:46:55 pm »
For metal you need more energy up to around 100kV. Your machine is not designed for that. Besides that, radiation safety becomes a real issue. I have worked in that field 30 years ago (pipe and weld monitoring and a lot more) and you need to be a certified operator and a lot more legal issues come around the corner (independent body personal dose level monitoring and so on).

On the other hand for 10kV - 30kV your machine has likely beryllium radiation windows that need to be handled with great care regarding safety.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #188 on: December 02, 2015, 10:44:30 pm »
@pjotr,

Thanks for comments.

You have not seen my background in this and other threads. Over 25 years operating open site and cabinet X-Ray systems. Fully qualified Radiographer and holder of all required low energy survey equipment :) Fear not, I am qualified and competent to operate this equipment in line with UK regulations. Other countries are less tolerant of personal ownership of such equipment though.

I also have a 65kVp Dental X-Ray but have not needed it to date. I have a Todd Research Basix 30 mail scanner but I intend to cut that up for scrap as the resolution is not good enough for my needs. The X-Ray generator will be decommissioned to prevent use by those without the required safety knowledge. Oh and no PCB Oils in that unit. Sad to kill it but it is too large and heavy to keep if it is of no use to me. I will sell the lead for scrap and maybe the X-Ray tube on eBay. Mike had the same issue with a conveyor belt X-Ray unit.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:52:07 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Pjotr

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #189 on: December 02, 2015, 11:33:23 pm »
Ok, thanks Fraser for the extra info. No, I didn't know your background. I myself left the X-ray material examination business almost 30 years ago and stepped over to the medical ultrasound area those days as an electronics engineer/developer for Organon (not in business any more ;) )

Nice pictures anyway, keep on posting!
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #190 on: December 03, 2015, 12:01:13 am »
Just used the MX-20 for a 'real' investigation.

I bought a Mammography Ionisation Chamber probe some time ago. It is a Radcal 2025 series probe designed for low energy X-Ray beam measurement. I only have the probe and not the meter that drives it.

I have searched for the schematics of the probe and associated meter without success but the electronics in the probe do not look too challenging to reverse engineer. Ionisation Chamber meters are not normally very complex. The electronics is usually a pico ammeter that measures the change in current passing through the ionisation chamber. I am currently studying the Radcal Patents for this probe.

Having looked inside the probes electronics enclosure I can see that it contains most of the electronics needed for such an instrument. It uses a current to frequency converter. The sensitive front end operational amplifiers are housed in a lead shielding capsule to avoid illumination by the X-Ray beam as that would cause all manner of problems with accuracy. The rest of the electronics are unshielded.

The really fragile part of the probe is the ionisation chamber. It has a very thin mylar window over one side of the chamber.  This is designed to provide good transmission of low energy X-Ray's into the chambers interior. Dismantling the chamber risks destroying it so I was not keen to delve inside it. This was a perfect subject for NDT X-Ray use.

I used the MX-20 to image both the ionisation chamber and associated electronics unit. The pictures follow. You will see from the pictures that several different angles are needed to fully understand how the various wires in the ionisation chamber are connected. A single view can give a confusing picture whereas rotating the subject creates a better 3D impression of the construction. Modern Microfocus X-Ray systems used in Industry can automate the rotation of the subject item and create 3D rotatable images of them on the screen through multiple image stitching . Sadly the MX-20 is not in that league and has no 3 axis turntable.

Enjoy the pictures   :)

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 01:09:28 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #191 on: December 03, 2015, 12:05:40 am »
Pictures
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #192 on: December 03, 2015, 12:45:53 am »
I have a Racal military Dipole centre piece that has been knocking around for ages. I wondered if it had any impedance matching components inside it. A quick X-Ray showed me all I needed to know in one picture. It was quicker than getting my LCR meter out of the lab for checks and is definitive in what it shows. See for yourself  :)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #193 on: December 03, 2015, 12:56:59 am »
I also had a Bronica camera Pistol Grip that I am having trouble dismantling. I took a couple of quick X-Ray images but sadly they have not revealed any secrets to me. I cannot image the thick alloy areas of the base plate and that is where I am likely to find the hidden handle securing screws. Low powered X-Ray is not suitable for all subjects, especially those containing metal. Thin aluminium is OK. Thin steel is not. Thick aluminium will also cause problems.

Well you can't gave it all I suppose. The MX-20 is a high resolution unit with a Microfocus X-Ray tube having a really small target spot size. The tube is only 12W rated and not oil cooled. A 35kVp limit is not an unreasonable compromise for the units excellent imaging performance. A bigger, beefier tube may have a larger target spot size = lower imaging performance.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #194 on: December 08, 2015, 12:22:24 am »
I have now moved the 'new' USB Hamamatsu Camera MX-20 to its permanent operating position, next to its sister, the Biovision camera based MX-20.  That may sound a simple task, but the double garage is full at the moment due to a major sort out that I am undertaking. I had to move a lot of kit, including the heavy Security X-Ray scanner, to make a path for the MX-20 trolley to travel to its final location. Not made any easier by my M.E.  :(  Its done now though  :)

I still need to tidy up the installation but she'll be operational again soon.

Note in the picture that the USB MX-20 is lower than the Biometrics version as the camera pod on the bottom is much slimmer. You can also see my 'spares' MX-20 in the background. The spares unit is fully operational but is film only with no camera. It was built in 1999 but has a newer 2008 Microfocus x-Ray Tube fitted. This is my insurance policy in case one of the Digital MX-20's suffers an X-Ray generator related fault.

Other points of interest within the picture are the two Ionising Radiation Survey meters sat on top of the Biovision MX-20 PC. One is a Mini Monitor 900, fitted with the Type D low energy probe, and the other is a Bicron Micro-Sievert Scintillator based survey meter. I have several other meters, including Ionisation Chamber types, but these two live in the garage near where they are needed most often.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 12:41:00 am by Fraser »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #195 on: December 08, 2015, 11:11:52 pm »
Something I must get round to trying is to put the faxitron sensor in the mailroom x-ray - although the resolution will be limited by the tube's spot size, the significantly higher kVp means it should be able to image through stuff that's opaque to the Faxitron's 35kxp tube.

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #196 on: December 08, 2015, 11:19:43 pm »
@Mike,
An interesting idea. I am still considering the fate of my Todd Research Basix 30 Security Mail scanner. It's 50/50 on a restoration or scrapping at the moment.

One thought on using higher energy X-Ray's with the Hamamatsu imaging array, it is designed for peak performance at 17kev. Some sensor arrays can suffer permanent damage if significantly over driven by X-Ray energy. Not sure about the Hamamatsu detectors though. Might be worth checking on this before risking your array.

Fraser
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #197 on: December 08, 2015, 11:27:08 pm »
Just checked the datasheet https://www.hamamatsu.com/resources/pdf/ssd/c9730dk-10_kacc1143e.pdf
Says absolute max 35kvp. Bummer.  :(

What I need is this, just not $2K of "need", though probably a fraction of its original price... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hamamatsu-C9312SK-MOS-Image-Sensor-for-X-Ray-/161433838760?hash=item259634e4a8:g:HA4AAOSw7NNUJVe8
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 11:35:59 pm by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #198 on: December 08, 2015, 11:35:49 pm »
Just checked the data sheet Mike.

Absolute maximum incident X-Ray energy is shown as 35kvp. It is interesting that they use kVp instead of the more appropriate kev.

This does suggest a damage level if exposed to higher energy X-Ray.

Remember that the sort of X-Ray energy levels present inside the MX-20 are easily attenuated to protect the camera array and electronics. Such would not be the case inside a higher energy security inspection X-Ray cabinet. Those tend to be pretty brutal and blast the DUT with a single level of energy. I.e. Maximum available from the tube and PSU combination. A somewhat blunter tool than the refined Faxitron units.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #199 on: December 08, 2015, 11:36:56 pm »
Our messages crossed. I did the same as you and checked the DS :)
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #200 on: December 08, 2015, 11:40:15 pm »
Such would not be the case inside a higher energy security inspection X-Ray cabinet. Those tend to be pretty brutal and blast the DUT with a single level of energy. I.e. Maximum available from the tube and PSU combination. A somewhat blunter tool than the refined Faxitron units.
The regulation in the mailroom one is limited to a few relays selecting transformer taps based on the incoming mains voltage. Without smoothing, the kVp will also vary throughout the mains cycle, though the integration time of a panel sensor would probably be long enough to smooth it out. 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #201 on: December 08, 2015, 11:57:11 pm »
Hmmmm 20kVp to 110kVp spec. Again, this is unusual / meaningless terminology with respect to the energy levels to which the camera is exposed. 110kVp does not produce 110kev as the conversion to X-Ray energy is anything but efficient. Tube specs must surely affect the output energy for a stated excitation voltage and tube current. Oh well, provided you stay under 110kVp I suppose Hamamatsu are confident their array will operate correctly.

As you say, a nice camera, but they are darned expensive. When reading about the Hamamatsu camera, I was impressed to read that the scintillator is a direct deposit on the photo detectors rather than a separate scintillator sheet, as found in the BIOPTICS camera. Direct deposition of scintillator material on the detector element produces the best possible image quality. The Hamamatsu cameras are certainly very nice quality assemblies.

I have considered playing with CR plates but the laser readers are large and expensive, even on the secondary market.

The MX-20 will likely serve my purposes for most scenarios. I have considered whether I could use the Gendex USB digital sensor array with my Gendex 65kVp dental head for more challenging material densities. I will have to get the sensor working first though :). I might also be able to use it in my security X-Ray scanner as that produces 85kVp.

So many projects and no time at the moment.

I would love to hear of any experiments that you carry out with your X-Ray equipment. If I can ever be of assistance, please do not hesitate to ask.

Fraser
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #202 on: December 09, 2015, 12:01:30 am »
The only things I'm vaguely contemplating are some sort of X/Y stage to do larger images on the faxitron, and also a rotating CT stage.
And I must get around to realigning the camera in the mailroom unit, and making a DSLR setup for it using the remote-controllable DSLR I upgraded to several years ago for the purpose and still haven't got round to...
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #203 on: December 09, 2015, 12:39:18 am »
Now that I have my 'dream setup' I will keep my eyes open for more USB Faxitron MX-20 units for you and others. My normal source of these dried up but I suspect we may see some coming up for disposal shortly. Finding a USB unit with a DC12 camera is a challenge though. At least if you get a unit that is without its PC you can use your SR software with it. The retail price on a used MX-20 with PC is currently around £1500. However I would expect to be able to supply one at the price you paid for the DC5 camera unit. You could then sell your DC5 MX-20 ?

This does not solve your need for more powerful X-Ray capability however. A decent Microfocus that would meet your needs costs around £250k and they are rare as hens teeth on the secondary market as they are normally decommissioned by the manufacturers agent and they tend to destroy them. Micro Focus Imaging was bought by Faxitron in 1997 and my experience of their USA customer service suggests that they do not want their machines in anything but industrial, medical, scientific or Government hands.

The UK Faxitron agent is a friendly chap though.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 12:46:18 am by Fraser »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #204 on: December 09, 2015, 09:50:36 am »
Probably the ideal "Find" would be a 4" (or bigger) non-USB sensor that's going cheap because it's lost its PC, but sufficiently documented to build an interface for (Like that Ebay one)

A while ago I spotted a large medical wireless sensor cassette mis-described on Ebay UK, but  someone else obviously also figured out what it was & bid more than I was prepared to punt on it in unknown condition (it did look a bit battered).
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #205 on: December 09, 2015, 12:12:41 pm »
That wasn't me bidding against you 😀 I did see a nice wireless cassette array last week on eBay. IIRC, it was over £4K 🙁

The trouble with such kit is often the bespoke software that is needed to control and access its configuration. Medical equipment is BIG business with crazy prices. As such many manufacturers use proprietary encryption of data, and on-line software registration requiring a support account. Much like I found with my Next Engine 3D scanner. Unless someone is an accomplished hacker, it can be an impossible challenge to make use of high tech medical kit without the required software, licence and support contract. The manufacturer effectively holds the buyer to ransom. If you want to use their already expensive kit, you also have to pay for an expensive support contract. In a medical environment this usage model may make sense, but not so in a hobby scenario.

Some imaging cassettes are just fancy paperweights unless you get the PC and software with them

As a side note..... The activation key required to use the Faxitron SR software is NOT for the control software but is for the DICOM interface that is contained within its code ! A PITA but DICOM was an essential part of the equipments usage and so the licensed interface was needed. Sadly you cannot easily activate the SR software minus the DICOM licensed routine.

Medical equipment can be full of all manner of traps for the unwary. Defies have batteries that expire themselves based upon age, auto syringe actuators shut down when their calibration is due and, as I have said software often requires on line activation costing a small fortune.

Fraser
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #206 on: December 09, 2015, 12:58:29 pm »
That wasn't me bidding against you 😀 I did see a nice wireless cassette array last week on eBay. IIRC, it was over £4K 🙁

This one started at peanuts and I got outbid at about £200

4K is probably still a fraction of the original cost, assuming it was a decent size.

[qupte]
The trouble with such kit is often the bespoke software that is needed to control and access its configuration.
[/quote]
I wasn't expecting to be able to talk to it via its native wifi interface, but I figured that there was a good chance that the actual image sensor would be outputting a datastream internally that I could extract. Like I said, it was a gable (on both this and the condition), but someone else was willing to punt more on it!
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #207 on: December 09, 2015, 04:39:01 pm »
My Gendex GXS-700 dental imaging sensor arrived today.

I have started a new thread for that imaging array and will update it as and when I have progress on its repair.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/x-ray-imaging-the-gendex-gxs-700-x-ray-dental-imaging-array/msg817487/#msg817487

It is in very good condition. Just some obvious damage to the USB plug which I will investigate first.

The GXS-700 cost me $100 and is a risk as these units can be beyond repair. The value for me is in the experience I gain working on it and the associated enjoyment of the challenge. If I cannot repair it, so be it  ;D

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 12:46:53 am by Fraser »
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Offline Gary350z

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #208 on: December 10, 2015, 07:10:15 am »
X-ray a miniature toggle switch. I've seen it before. It's pretty cool.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #209 on: December 11, 2015, 12:48:43 am »
@Gary350Z,

The Faxitron is dormant for the moment as I am involved in other priority tasking. I will wake her up again soon.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #210 on: January 15, 2016, 06:01:58 pm »
WOW! This thread has been read over 10,000 times  :o

I hadn't realised that people were so interested in X-Ray images.

The Faxitron is dormant at the moment as I am balancing a new kitchen installation with sorting out my lab and garage. These tasks are major time eaters. I will fire up the Faxitron MX-20's again as soon as I get the spare time to play. Hopefully soon.

If anyone has any specific items that they are interested in seeing imaged with X-Ray (and that I also have access to) I will be happy to take requests in this thread. Please do not PM me requests as some requests will be duplicated. Remember that the MX-20 is a 35kVp X-Ray machine so cannot really penetrate metal. If the metal is aluminium, it can cope with limited thickness.

Fraser
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Offline Melt-O-Tronic

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #211 on: January 16, 2016, 04:29:16 am »
The thread really is just that fascinating!   8)

Here's an idea for you . . . STEREO PAIRS!!!   :popcorn:
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #212 on: April 21, 2016, 08:35:56 pm »
Some images of the Raspberri Pi 3 using my newer Faxitron MX-20 equipped with a 100mm x 100mm Hamamatsu USB imager array.

These are all taken in auto exposure mode with 35kV and approx 15 seconds exposure.

I tweaked the image produced by auto exposure mode by changing the ADU window size and centre point. This is after image capture and just allows me to increase contrast in areas of interest or reduce contrast to capture a more holistic view. I did some close ups for comparison with another X-Ray machine so have included those as well.

Enjoy  :)

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 12:15:50 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #213 on: April 21, 2016, 08:37:35 pm »
More images
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #214 on: April 21, 2016, 08:39:30 pm »
Close ups
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #215 on: April 21, 2016, 08:41:34 pm »
More images
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #216 on: April 21, 2016, 11:24:32 pm »
Demonstrating the practical use of my X-Ray machine.

I own several thermal cameras that can be powered by 8 AA Alkaline cells or a sealed Ni-Mh battery pack. The AA Alkalinne battery pack has three connections. +, - and the battery monitoring pin. The monitoring pin is connected to a small resistor that is also connected to the positive end of the pack.

At first glance it appeared that the Ni-Mh battery was just the AA Alkaline battery holder with a different value battery monitoring resistor and Ni-Mh cells fitted.

Well it looks like I was wrong.

If you look at the two attached pictures you will see a reference AA Alkaline cell holder (empty) and the sealed Ni-Mh battery.
The Ni-Mh battery is shrink wrapped and uses a hollow container with no cell holders, plus it has a PCB running the whole length of the cells on one side. The PCB is wrapped in a shrink wrap sleeve as can be seen. I believe this PCB is 'gas gauge' providing state of charge information to the host camera and dedicated smart charger unit.

If I were to cut the battery pack open, I now know that there is a PCB to be avoided on one side. Very important when dismantling a unit.

Fraser
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Offline Mr.B

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #217 on: April 21, 2016, 11:33:40 pm »
Demonstrating the practical use of my X-Ray machine.

Very cool Fraser.
Thanks for the images.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #218 on: April 22, 2016, 12:09:03 am »
X-Ray images of the common DALLAS DS1287 Real Time Clock.

For those unaware, this is a module that contains a real time clock IC, a separate crystal and a Lithium coin cell. The IC, crystal and coin cell are potted into a module and the cell is not intended to be replaced at the end of its life (approx 10 Years) Some equipment uses more exotic types of RTC that are no longer available. When the cell is exhausted the only real option is to carefully cut away the module lid and potting to reveal the cell. A new cell may then be grafted to the RTC IC. Without prior knowledge of a particular module or X-Ray images of it, you are working blind with a Dremel tool on an irreplaceable RTC .... not a happy thought !

As you will see in the images, the X-Ray reveals exactly where it is safe to cut. The MX-20 can apply dimensions to the images as well so a precision piece of surgery can be performed on the RTC module to expose just the parts needed. The potting compound is quite dense but by setting a small ADU window I could extract the detail I needed. Note the IC pins bent upwards to connect to the external components within the potted lid section.

The MX-20 was able to penetrate the coin cell and image the IC die through it. I was pleasantly surprised by this as at 31kV (the auto exposure setting chosen by the MX-20) I did not think such would be possible as the coin cell is steel cased.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 12:28:52 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #219 on: April 22, 2016, 04:38:21 pm »
Quickly fired up the X-Ray machine again to image a motherboard and thought I would image a Broadcom BCM4501KQMEG to see what it looked like inside. The IC is in a plastic package and has had all its legs removed. This IC my form part of my X-Ray performance test kit.

It is pretty enough to hang a picture of it on a wall   ;D



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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #220 on: April 22, 2016, 04:40:40 pm »
Another image of the broadcom. I was adjusting the ADU window and center level to bring out different details. On one exposure was taken and the three images are just the result of ADU display tweaking.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #221 on: April 22, 2016, 04:46:14 pm »
I am working on a Dell 2205 AIO motherboard that has a blown 5V supply rail generator IC and FET. I wanted to image the area of the board where it is located to see whether any pcb traces have also been fried. It was quite a big POP! when the chip blew judging from the soot around the IC  ;D

Some X-Ray images provided the information I needed.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #222 on: April 22, 2016, 05:02:40 pm »
Dell 2005 AIO motherboard Northbridge and Southbridge IC's
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #223 on: April 22, 2016, 05:05:12 pm »
A weird one this time.

I was curious so I just imaged the last kidney stone that I gave birth to in January  ;D

Not that interesting but it does have variable density so a wider ADU window was chosen, hence the low contrast. You will need to zoom in to see more detail.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:08:50 pm by Fraser »
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #224 on: April 22, 2016, 05:48:24 pm »
Those do hurt when you pop them out. Almost as bad as when the pretty nurse comes in and removes that Foley Catheter. Says she will remove on three, and whips it out on one. Then explains people always tense up on two..........
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #225 on: April 22, 2016, 08:52:17 pm »
Toggle Switch
Rocker Switch
Multi turn trimpot large
Multi turn trimpot small
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #226 on: April 22, 2016, 08:53:54 pm »
Push button switch
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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