Author Topic: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...  (Read 24898 times)

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Offline aroby

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2014, 08:37:08 pm »
Very impressive, thanks for sharing the details.  I like the arcs  made from carbon fibre.

I'm still waiting to find out where your iPod nano screen project ended up ...

Anthony
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 08:43:05 pm by aroby »
 

Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2014, 08:50:46 pm »
Very impressive, thanks for sharing the details.  I like the arcs  made from carbon fibre.

I'm still waiting to find out where your iPod nano screen project ended up ...

Anthony
It was installed in New York a couple of months ago - there is supposed to be a video being made about it - hopefully soon.
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Offline zapta

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2014, 08:53:34 pm »
Mike, can you tell us about the process of creating the light 'dance'? What kind of people made it, what software tools they used, how much work does it takes, etc.  I can understand having many addressable LEDs but how to choreograph them is beyond me.

Dave, Chris, have an Amp Hour with Mike with more details?
 

Offline CrabxCore

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2014, 08:59:59 pm »
This is a beautiful installation. Looks great! 
 

Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2014, 09:01:01 pm »
Mike, can you tell us about the process of creating the light 'dance'? What kind of people made it, what software tools they used, how much work does it takes, etc.  I can understand having many addressable LEDs but how to choreograph them is beyond me.
I didn't have much involvement with this - here is some info
Quote
Behind this highly bespoke electronics hardware sits a complex real-time simulation software running in VVVV on a PC.  A physics simulation of virtual schools of fish is calculated directly on the Nvidia GPU, taking cues from a variety of environmental conditions.  To turn the sculpture into a true volumetric display it was necessary to perform distance calculations for each led, a process that was too slow to run conventionally on a CPU. To overcome this hurdle, the calculations were offloaded to the GPU, capable of performing many calculations simultaneously. A custom c sharp plugin then analysed these results and estimated the best way to reproduce these patterns using the video frame parameters available.   
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Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2014, 09:39:32 pm »
wow, very impressive, two thumbs up !

When you are making this kind of things (this one in particular) do you physically assemble and connect the modules in the real installation, and take care of all the "on the field" problems in person, or are there other guys doing that when you're finished with the design ?

great work !  :-+
Depends a lot on details - I try to design stuff to be fairly straightforward to plug together, and be pretty idiot proof, e.g. even though everything plugs together, I always make sure that all data lines are protected from shorts to the 24V (or whatever) supply, or any plausible reverse/incorrect connection. Also make sure there are spares of everything - not being able to finish an install due to a damaged part is bad news. (We once nearly couldn't finish an overnight install at a shopping centre for lack of a couple of M3 screws - fortunately someone found some in the bottom of a toolbox!)
I'm usually there to supervise, & usually end up doing the fiddly bits & testing myself.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 09:51:20 pm by mikeselectricstuff »
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Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2014, 09:45:27 pm »
Nah, fully understand you choice :) .. the WS2811 do have issues with low level grey scale. They are incredibly cheap though, even the Chinese will start throwing them at you when you ask for a discount on LEDs.

Cost of drivers is not a big issue compared to other costs on something like this. I think the resin encapsulation cost about the same as the PCB, parts and assembly.
And that's before you start on the carbon fibre...  I paid less for my house.
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Offline jancumps

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2014, 09:53:24 pm »
I'll be in Heathrow mid June.
Flights from Belgium normally don't go via T2, but I'm going to check out anywho how I can get close to this installation.
If it's in he checked-in area, my chances are slim.

Well done, MES.
 

Offline David_AVD

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2014, 10:12:02 pm »
Very impressive Mike.  Thanks for sharing the end result and some construction details.   :-+
 

Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2014, 10:22:42 pm »
I'll be in Heathrow mid June.
Flights from Belgium normally don't go via T2, but I'm going to check out anywho how I can get close to this installation.
If it's in he checked-in area, my chances are slim.

Well done, MES.
It's in T2 Departures so you'd need to be going somewhere that flies from T2
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Offline pickle9000

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2014, 01:35:22 am »
Wow! That's really impressive, congratulations on a job very well done.
 

Offline SPRX

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2014, 02:53:07 am »

Excellent piece of work, and Looks Great !!!

Simply Awesome !!!
 

Offline VK5RC

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2014, 03:21:14 am »
Lovely work, you should be proud of the final result!
Did you keep a few spare 'segments' as keepsakes? I hope so!
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 

Offline Electr0nicus

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2014, 03:27:44 am »
Wow what a impressive project. I love stuff with crazy numbers of LEDs. And also thank you mike for giving us a view "inside" and how that complete system works.  :-+
 

Offline jeremy

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2014, 03:48:07 am »
Beautiful!
 

Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2014, 07:33:47 am »
Lovely work, you should be proud of the final result!
Did you keep a few spare 'segments' as keepsakes? I hope so!
You always need to make spares for stuff like this, as the cost/time to make more if something dies or gets damaged during install is way higher than adding a few to the main production batch.
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Offline firewalker

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2014, 08:02:12 am »
Amazing!

Any video from the cube installation?

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline CBP

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2014, 09:38:07 am »
Truly impressive work - out of interest how much time would you get from instruction to completion for a project like this? I'm just wondering whether you get a lot of test time on the bench before everything gets hoisted into the air.
 

Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2014, 09:42:59 am »
When they design these things do they consider service access if a section dies? It is all well and good to grow it from the inside out during installation  but it would be awkward to find you can't easily replace a part without a partial dismantling.
Or is it all about the artistic vision and bugger everything else?
This is one of the eternal battles I have with customers, especially the ones less experienced in large-scale installs. They come up with something that is completely unmaintainable, then I tell them what things they need to change, or ask questions like "how much will it cost you to send people out and hire a cherry-picker to access that if something goes wrong?". Their more  bean-counting oriented people then tend apply pressure as necessary to the artistic types to reach a compromise based on likelihood of failure, consequences (e.g. a dead fixture in a random layout is much less noticeable than one in a line or grid) and cost of dealing with it.
General rules are that things like PSUs and primary control gear (computer etc.) must never, ever be located somewhere that is hard/expensive to get to, and where practical, any electronics that can be moved to an accessible location should be, even if it means using a lot more wire.   
There are also some design aspects to mitigate the effects of failures, e.g. interleaving stuff so a single PSU or data failure doesn't affect a big consecutive block, designing content that is less affected by a few failed fixtures etc. Obviously the practicality of this varies a lot depending on the nature if the installation. 
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Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2014, 10:00:12 am »
Truly impressive work - out of interest how much time would you get from instruction to completion for a project like this?
This was a fairly short timescale for something on this scale, being installed in such a difficult location - I think it kicked off about last October, & install started early May, so about 6 months. The biggest problem is usually getting a definite "Go" from the end client to start manufacturing, as it often needs signoff from all sorts of different people, many of whom rarely appreciate leadtime issues. For stuff on this scale you also have things like signoff from structural engineers and the people in charge of the building. Leadtime on this was a particular issue as carbon fibre has fairly long cure times, and the manufacturer has finite autoclave capacity. They were working round the clock for at least a couple of weeks.
Quote
I'm just wondering whether you get a lot of test time on the bench before everything gets hoisted into the air.
I do try to insist on some burn-in time where possible, however this very often disappears due to other parts of the project running late. Failures after install can be costly, but sometimes preferable to not being able to finish in time for an opening.
It can also be difficult, because as well as the actual fixtures, you also  need all the cabling, PSUs etc. and things as simple as having the physical space to set it all up can be a major problem.

One thing I always do at the design stage is test PSUs and anything that handles significant power at full load for at least day or two.  PSUs are also never run at more than about 50-75% of their rating. Many PSU specs are somewhat optimistic - e.g. I once had a Traco DIN-rail unit that when running at 70%, the air coming out of the top hit 75 deg.C at 25 deg ambient - needless to say that didn't make it to the final install - we used a PULS unit that ran at about 40 deg.
My general rule on heating is the finger test - if you can't hold your finger on it, it's too hot.

Some things can be done at the design stage to reduce risk, e.g. designing an architecture which is at some level a number of identical parts which aren't dependent on others, so if one works, there is negligible risk that you will hit scaling issues.
A good example of this is wireless setups - if the architecture is broadcast, with receive-only nodes, you know you won't hit bandwidth issues with larger numbers of nodes, however architectures like mesh networks or poll-reply & message forwarding can be very hard to fully test, and tend to have exponential failure modes as traffic increases. They can also be a complete bitch to faultfind.
This is one reason I like one-way comms with no readback mechanism - there are far fewer things to go wrong, and for a light installation, it's obvious visually if something isn't working, unlike something like a sensor network, where you want to know the difference between "sensor not currently detecting anything" and "sensor broken or missing".
Where you do need 2-way comms, I like using a time-slotted protocol so bandwidth is very well defined, and USB latency issues can be mimised (e.g. you send a "give me data" command, and each node replies in a timeslot defined by its ID, so you effectively get a single packet back with all the nodes' data) .

For this install, there is one thing you do need to read back, which is an indication of when the SPI flash has completed its erase time, which can typically be 10-20 seconds. As this is only done occasionally, and manually, the way I handled this is for the controller to display a bargraph on the LEDs indicating erase progress - the person doing the content uploading sends an erase command, and then watches for this to complete before programming.
The (much shorter) flash write times during programming are ensured by adding dummy bytes to the serial stream, so the baudrate  guarantees sufficient write time. 
 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 10:15:57 am by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline all_repair

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2014, 10:20:55 am »
Impressive work of art !!! Do you have your name engraved somewhere at the base of the structure?  So I can take a picture with myself if I happen to visit T2 airport, hopefully this few years (got no business to be there except for tour now).  I like this better than the UFO  :clap: :clap:  :clap:
 

Offline TheWelly888

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2014, 10:47:59 am »
Wonderful lights! Now that will make any flight delays a little more bearable. (I hope!)

Imagine using incandescent grain of wheat bulbs for such a fitting!  ;D
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Offline Dago

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2014, 11:14:32 am »
One of the coolest things I've seen in a while. Awesome job!

Must have taken a long time to solder each and every one of those LEDs by hand :-DD
Come and check my projects at http://www.dgkelectronics.com ! I also tweet as https://twitter.com/DGKelectronics
 

Offline ErikTheNorwegian

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2014, 01:47:57 pm »
Very beautiful, art that everyone would like!!

Well done!!    :-+

But, is there any sound from the installation, or is it quiet?
/Erik
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Online mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: This is why I've not had much time for videos recently...
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2014, 02:51:42 pm »
But, is there any sound from the installation, or is it quiet?
No, but if you listen very carefully you can hear a slight buzz from the PSUs!
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
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