Author Topic: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)  (Read 2623 times)

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Offline joric

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Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« on: August 22, 2018, 10:25:01 pm »
Stumbled upon those weird 6-pin female Type-C connectors on Aliexpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-Micro-USB-6pin-type-C-Female-Connector-USB3-1-For-Mobile-Phone-Mini-USB-Jack/32885941456.html

No pinout, just sizes. 6-pin Type-C? What they are for? Also maybe someone knows if there are Type-C connectors with Micro USB footprint, I'd gladly replace every Micro USB at home with those Type-C puppies if footprints matched. These ones look almost like it.

Pictures:





Upd:

Look like these:



So no Micro USB compatible data pins, CC1 and CC2 are voltage switching lines and D+ and D- don't seem to be connected. SAD!

« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 11:13:08 pm by joric »
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2018, 10:59:17 pm »
This is an interesting find. I was looking for something like this.

Nope. Misinterpreted the schematic. Here is an article that shows the pinout of the 6-pin connector https://www.scorpia.co.uk/2016/03/17/using-usb-type-c-on-hobyist-projects/ . It looks like it has all that is needed for  compatibility mode.

Ok, I totally missed the pinout table. It is a power-only connector. CCx are Configuration Channel pins.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 11:08:14 pm by ataradov »
Alex
 

Offline joric

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2018, 11:22:36 pm »
Yeah power only connector. Even if they were D+/D- it would be tricky to solder on a regular 5-pin footprint. Hope someone finds a real Type-C / Micro USB replacement connector.
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2018, 11:26:07 pm »
It would be nice to find Type-C with fewer pins, even if they are not compatible with old footprints. Soldering full connector by hand is hard, and full connectors are way more expensive. And it looks like it should be possible to connect the necessary signals inside the connector and only bring out DP/DM/VCC/GND. But it does not looks like such thing exists.
Alex
 

Offline joric

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2018, 11:41:09 pm »
Tried to compare their pinout, picture in scale:



Maybe it's doable with kapton tape and individual wires, but it would be messy, they sure don't match at all.

Micro USB connectors are really that small, the "body" is 6.90mm vs 8.64mm for type-c. Outer size is about the same, considering "whiskers", 8mm vs ~9mm.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 11:47:17 pm by joric »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2018, 11:47:33 pm »
It would be nice to find Type-C with fewer pins, even if they are not compatible with old footprints. Soldering full connector by hand is hard, and full connectors are way more expensive. And it looks like it should be possible to connect the necessary signals inside the connector and only bring out DP/DM/VCC/GND. But it does not looks like such thing exists.

The closest I've seen: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/hirose-electric-co-ltd/CX90M-16P/H126318CT-ND/9559137

It's not too scary looking.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2018, 11:10:03 am »
FWIW, I've found to my expense that USB C receptacles aren't particularly robust, particularly if you inadvertently try to insert a Lightning plug into one.  |O
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2018, 02:26:05 pm »
FWIW, I've found to my expense that USB C receptacles aren't particularly robust, particularly if you inadvertently try to insert a Lightning plug into one.  |O

I blame Apple. For Lightning existing.
 

Offline joric

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 11:05:16 pm »
Just noticed, the infamous TS80 uses Type-C connector too, wonder what's that:



Upd: looks like that one-sided 18-pin connector from the post above:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/hirose-electric-co-ltd/CX90M-16P/H126318CT-ND/9559137

I've compared it with a regular Micro USB connector from here:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/amphenol-fci/10118192-0001LF/609-4613-2-ND/2785387

Footprints to scale (red - Micro USB, blue - Type-C, pin spacing is 0.65 mm vs 0.5 mm):



Doesn't match at all! You probably could use some kind of a custom flex cable to replace one connector with another.

Upd: TS80 uses rather specific Chinese 16-pin Type-C connectors (pinout is similar to the connector above), they cost $9.18 for 30 pcs ($0.30 a piece):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30pcs-lot-16-pin-Sunk-in-board-USB-3-1-Type-c-Female-Connector-Receptacle-Socket/32847321603.html

Or, even better, $0.19 a piece (trackable shipping isn't too expensive either):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YuXi-USB-3-1-Type-C-16pin-female-connector-For-Mobile-Phone-Charging-port-Charging-Socket/32840308311.html



Pin spacing apears to be about the same 0.5 mm:



Those 16-pin Type-C receptacles are actually USB 2.0 because there's no high speed data pins.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 12:13:21 pm by joric »
 
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Offline ataradov

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 03:19:15 am »
Even without the need to retrofit old footprints, I'd like to see a Type-C connector with just the basic pins, but easy to layout and solder footprint.
Alex
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2018, 03:26:50 am »
Even without the need to retrofit old footprints, I'd like to see a Type-C connector with just the basic pins, but easy to layout and solder footprint.
The basic pins being the USB 2 pins? Me too.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2018, 03:28:21 am »
Well, the one I linked is.. that. Just what you need to use a C connector. It's not that evil looking to solder, either.
 
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Offline rs20

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 03:53:54 am »
0.5mm is no problem whatsoever, thanks for pointing out that connector! It's way better than the standard USB-C connectors with a similar pitch but 2 rows, making the "underneath" row completely impossible to rework. Definitely going to consider switching to USB-C with that connector.

I doubt there'll ever be a mass-produced USB-C connector in a micro-B pinout. Even though it's "easy to make" by some arbitrary standard, it would require significantly more specialized tooling that normal USB connectors (in particular, IIUC, you'd need to short D+ (A6 to B6) and also D- (A7 to B7) in the connector -- which is opposite layers and forming an X shape that is at risk of shorting D- to D+ -- tell me how to do that with a single pass of metal stamping and insertion into plastic.) And given that the standard connectors and the easily manufactured connectors pointed to by Monkeh are both available, there's just no commerical or industrial customer will to pay even 2 cents extra that would justify the larger investment required. But that's just a guess.


 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 09:31:01 pm »
Well, the one I linked is.. that. Just what you need to use a C connector. It's not that evil looking to solder, either.
One problem with that one is that it's only 1,25A. I know it's USB2 in disguise, but increasing current carrying capabilities would be one of the reasons to upgrade cable and connector.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 09:36:05 pm »
Well, the one I linked is.. that. Just what you need to use a C connector. It's not that evil looking to solder, either.
One problem with that one is that it's only 1,25A. I know it's USB2 in disguise, but increasing current carrying capabilities would be one of the reasons to upgrade cable and connector.

1.25A per pin. 1.25 * 4 = 5. I'm pretty sure high current cables connect all pins.

Also, it's a proper USB C connector - you can ask for 20V.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 09:44:32 pm »
1.25A per pin. 1.25 * 4 = 5. I'm pretty sure high current cables connect all pins.

Also, it's a proper USB C connector - you can ask for 20V.
I missed the per pin bit. That should be plenty. Increasing the voltage is a neat trick, but not having to step down the voltage can be useful for cost conscious projects.
 

Offline joric

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2018, 09:01:03 am »
Got those chinese 12-pin USB 2.0 Type-C connectors from here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YuXi-USB-3-1-Type-C-16pin-female-connector-For-Mobile-Phone-Charging-port-Charging-Socket/32840308311.html

It's not the worst compatibility in terms of size but it's certainly totally incompatible by pinout.
It would need a lot of work and precise soldering to replace, perhaps a special flex cable or a riser board.

 

Offline joric

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Re: Type-C in Micro USB footprint (female connectors)
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2018, 11:25:47 am »
Larger picture:

« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 11:32:57 am by joric »
 


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