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Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: Zipdox on October 14, 2021, 04:06:23 pm

Title: USB audio ICs
Post by: Zipdox on October 14, 2021, 04:06:23 pm
I'm looking for USB audio ICs that have DACs and ADCs builtin as opposed to I2S ports that require external DAC/ADCs.

So far the only options I've found are TI's PCM29XX chips and Cmedia chips. TI chips are a readily available but a bit expensive at a small scale. Cmedia chips aren't as good but a bigger problem for me is availability, I need to find a retailer in Europe that stocks them and allows small quantity orders.

Is TI my only option and should I just swallow the cost, or are there other options?
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: ve7xen on October 14, 2021, 06:26:13 pm
If these are your criteria, then yes, TI is your only option.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: Zipdox on October 14, 2021, 06:56:47 pm
Ignoring the criteria, what other manufacturers make USB audio ICs with DAC/ADC builtin?
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: magic on October 14, 2021, 07:11:40 pm
I have one USB dongle with VIA VT1620A.
Probably unobtainium as an individual IC.

I'm sure there are many others; search around for ICs marketed for USB soundcards or headsets and the like.
But that's just so satisfy your curiosity; it's a highly specialized consumer electronics application so the usual MOQ applies ::)
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: ve7xen on October 14, 2021, 07:14:28 pm
Quote from: Zipdox on October 14, 2021, 06:56:47 pm
Ignoring the criteria, what other manufacturers make USB audio ICs with DAC/ADC builtin?

I know of only CMedia that does them with the DAC/ADC built-in. I think VIA did one once, but it was never available on the open market, and probably isn't at all anymore. There are probably a couple other Chinese-market-only fabless companies making them for the ultracheap USB audio devices you get on Aliexpress or whatever, but they will be even less available (and less quality) than the CM ones. And even they have probably transitioned most of their operation to Bluetooth. I'm pretty sure there is no other option from well-known/available companies, I've looked for years (and also for good UAC2-compliant USB-I2S options).

SiLabs did the CP2615 but it is a USB-I2S interface, no analog built-in, it is also NRND (but still orderable, I think) and stocks are low.

Other than that, you can use demo code / write code for a microcontroller and connect it to an I2S CODEC, which is what most decent commercial products do. XMOS is popular but expensive.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: Bassman59 on October 14, 2021, 10:18:20 pm
Quote from: Zipdox on October 14, 2021, 04:06:23 pm
I'm looking for USB audio ICs that have DACs and ADCs builtin as opposed to I2S ports that require external DAC/ADCs.

So far the only options I've found are TI's PCM29XX chips and Cmedia chips. TI chips are a readily available but a bit expensive at a small scale. Cmedia chips aren't as good but a bigger problem for me is availability, I need to find a retailer in Europe that stocks them and allows small quantity orders.

Is TI my only option and should I just swallow the cost, or are there other options?

Do you require more than two simultaneous channels in each direction? Do you need to support sample rates > 48 kHz? If so, then you need High Speed USB and there are no single-chip options for that.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: Zipdox on October 14, 2021, 10:31:09 pm
No not really. I just want to know what my options are.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 14, 2021, 11:04:18 pm
Quote from: magic on October 14, 2021, 07:11:40 pm
I have one USB dongle with VIA VT1620A.
Probably unobtainium as an individual IC

Yeah indeed.

Quote from: magic on October 14, 2021, 07:11:40 pm
I'm sure there are many others; search around for ICs marketed for USB soundcards or headsets and the like.

Single-chip USB + DAC + ADC aren't that many actually. The very cheap USB audio cards available are almost all using C-media parts. There may be even cheaper obscure chinese chips, but I don't know. And availability is probably even worse in Europe.

Most of the less cheap cards use a separate USB IC and Codec (ADC+DAC) IC.

We'd need to know what's the rationale for a single-IC solution here. Is it for cost reasons, or for PCB area reasons? Or availability, as finding one available IC might be safer at the moment than having to deal with two?

Because as far as cost and availability goes, it would probably be easier and even cheaper at this point to design a 2-chip solution. The USB-I2S part could even be implemented on a cheap MCU to further lower cost and increase your chances of availability; cheap Codec ICs are many, so that's not much of a problem.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 15, 2021, 02:03:58 am
There are single chip USB 2.0 DACs for USB-C headphones and audio adapters, but I'm not sure where to get a few of those chips for hobby use other than buying adapters and embedding them in your project. The USB-C audio adapter included with my Le Pro 3 smartphone uses a Saviaudio chip, audio quality is better than most PC motherboards and almost as good as a very high end PCM1792A.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 15, 2021, 06:13:35 pm
Quote from: NiHaoMike on October 15, 2021, 02:03:58 am
The USB-C audio adapter included with my Le Pro 3 smartphone uses a Saviaudio chip, audio quality is better than most PC motherboards and almost as good as a very high end PCM1792A.

I suppose you are refering to Savitech products: https://www.savitech.co/usb-products (https://www.savitech.co/usb-products)

It's apparently a taiwanese company. No datasheet downloadable, no clue whoever distributes them, and the only contact means they offer you on the web site is a tawainese phone number. Good luck.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: amyk on October 16, 2021, 12:45:59 am
A few more:

DP108 (CMedia clone)
DS4201
PNX0161
SSS1530,1629,1700
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 16, 2021, 01:09:03 am
Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 15, 2021, 06:13:35 pm
I suppose you are refering to Savitech products: https://www.savitech.co/usb-products (https://www.savitech.co/usb-products)

It's apparently a taiwanese company. No datasheet downloadable, no clue whoever distributes them, and the only contact means they offer you on the web site is a tawainese phone number. Good luck.
This is the USB device info for it:
Code: [Select]
  Device Info
Device Path: /dev/bus/usb/001/002
Device Class: Miscellaneous (0xef)
Vendor ID:  262a
Vendor Name:  not in database
Product ID:  03ea
Product Name:  not in db
Interfaces
Interface #0
Class: Human Interaction Device (0x3)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 129 (10000001)
Number         : 1
Direction      : Inbound (0x80)
Type           : Intrrupt (0x3)
Poll Interval  : 6
Max Packet Size: 1
Attributes     : 000000011
Interface #1
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoints: none
Interface #2
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoints: none
Interface #3
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 3 (000000011)
Number         : 3
Direction      : Outbound (0x0)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 56
Attributes     : 00000001001
Interface #4
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 3 (000000011)
Number         : 3
Direction      : Outbound (0x0)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 84
Attributes     : 00000001001
Interface #5
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoints: none
Interface #6
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 130 (10000010)
Number         : 2
Direction      : Inbound (0x80)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 56
Attributes     : 00000001001
Interface #7
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 130 (10000010)
Number         : 2
Direction      : Inbound (0x80)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 84
Attributes     : 00000001001
 
USB-C audio has become more popular nowadays, I'd imagine there's now lots of manufacturers making chips specifically for that application.
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: salihkanber on October 16, 2021, 08:24:28 am
How about NXP ? Such as LPC2142FBD64
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: HB9EVI on October 16, 2021, 02:30:15 pm
I second TI; like the PCM2704 which has all  aboard, offers decent sound quality and even has in/out SPDIF interface
Title: Re: USB audio ICs
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 17, 2021, 12:07:25 am
Quote from: NiHaoMike on October 16, 2021, 01:09:03 am
Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 15, 2021, 06:13:35 pm
I suppose you are refering to Savitech products: https://www.savitech.co/usb-products (https://www.savitech.co/usb-products)

It's apparently a taiwanese company. No datasheet downloadable, no clue whoever distributes them, and the only contact means they offer you on the web site is a tawainese phone number. Good luck.
This is the USB device info for it:
Code: [Select]
  Device Info
Device Path: /dev/bus/usb/001/002
Device Class: Miscellaneous (0xef)
Vendor ID:  262a
Vendor Name:  not in database
Product ID:  03ea
Product Name:  not in db
Interfaces
Interface #0
Class: Human Interaction Device (0x3)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 129 (10000001)
Number         : 1
Direction      : Inbound (0x80)
Type           : Intrrupt (0x3)
Poll Interval  : 6
Max Packet Size: 1
Attributes     : 000000011
Interface #1
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoints: none
Interface #2
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoints: none
Interface #3
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 3 (000000011)
Number         : 3
Direction      : Outbound (0x0)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 56
Attributes     : 00000001001
Interface #4
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 3 (000000011)
Number         : 3
Direction      : Outbound (0x0)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 84
Attributes     : 00000001001
Interface #5
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoints: none
Interface #6
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 130 (10000010)
Number         : 2
Direction      : Inbound (0x80)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 56
Attributes     : 00000001001
Interface #7
Class: Audio Device (0x1)
    Endpoint: #0
Address        : 130 (10000010)
Number         : 2
Direction      : Inbound (0x80)
Type           : Isochronous (0x1)
Poll Interval  : 1
Max Packet Size: 84
Attributes     : 00000001001
 
USB-C audio has become more popular nowadays, I'd imagine there's now lots of manufacturers making chips specifically for that application.

Yes this is Savitech: https://devicehunt.com/view/type/usb/vendor/262A (https://devicehunt.com/view/type/usb/vendor/262A)