USB C vs type B micro for a new design.

[Fflint]

I'm designing a device I'd like to keep using 10 maybe 20 years from now. This thing is not going to be unplugged or moved often. If it was there would be no hope at all of achieving this lifetime. I need a capable uC inside with a USB interface to talk to a PC. I decided to use rp2040. This will be in form of a rpi pico with a USB B Micro connector or tiny2040 which is the same chip but with USB C.

I have to choose based on the connector because other benefits/diosadvantages cancel out. Now USB C is a clear personal preference for me. The connector seems a lot more robust, but it may very well be just a perception. The standard hasn't been around long enough for me to say for sure: yeah, USB C will last longer.

I have drawers full of useless USB B Micro devices the only failure in them being the connector. I have my own share of frustration with that connector, but it is useful to remember it first entered the market in 2007. That is 18 years... A very long time for an electronic device. And likewise I have some devices from that era that continue to work fine.

So I'm not sure which one to choose and I decided to post here. Which would you choose and why? Do you have any data backing it up one way or the other? Please note I have to choose one of these two existing devices. I have no way to use a more robust version of a connector. It is what ot is if I choose one or the other device.

Also, this device is just for me. It will not be sold. I don't have to consider other people's preferences.

What would you do?

[PGPG]

I have drawers full of useless USB B Micro devices the only failure in them being the connector.

My opinion is that EU forces to use USB-C as supply of everything (including laptops) under the influence of some lobby of manufacturers who want the devices not to be too durable.
Have in mind that in USB-micro you have 5 pin contacts and in USB-C 24 pin contacts.
A month ago I have read (at Usenet electronic group) that someone found thrown away laptop and the only failure was USB-C. Laptop didn't had any other way to charge its battery. Now someone writing it is the happy owner of a relatively new laptop (older ones had normal round power connectors).

[langwadt]

I have drawers full of useless USB B Micro devices the only failure in them being the connector.

My opinion is that EU forces to use USB-C as supply of everything (including laptops) under the influence of some lobby of manufacturers who want the devices not to be too durable.
Have in mind that in USB-micro you have 5 pin contacts and in USB-C 24 pin contacts.
A month ago I have read (at Usenet electronic group) that someone found thrown away laptop and the only failure was USB-C. Laptop didn't had any other way to charge its battery. Now someone writing it is the happy owner of a relatively new laptop (older ones had normal round power connectors).

never let a chance to make up a conspiracy theory go to waste ..

[mikerj]

A month ago I have read (at Usenet electronic group) that someone found thrown away laptop and the only failure was USB-C. Laptop didn't had any other way to charge its battery. Now someone writing it is the happy owner of a relatively new laptop (older ones had normal round power connectors).

Did the laptops with round DC plugs have a different way to charge the battery?  Anything can be broken with enough abuse, but USB-C connectors have proven robust, more so than micro-USB IME.  It also provides way more functionality; multi-voltage, up to 240W power capability, video, audio etc..

[ejeffrey]

Definitely type C if those are your two choices. 

[ajb]

No question: USB C.  It's the direction everything is moving, and with a lot of good reasons.

Did the laptops with round DC plugs have a different way to charge the battery? 

  Actually, my current laptop does!  It came with a barrel-plug adapter, but will also charge at 100W via USB C.  I don't think that's too unusual for higher power laptops of similar age, where they can operate on 100W but might be able to perform better/charge faster with the higher power adapter.  I think higher power Mac laptops are similar, but with magsafe + USB?  Now that 240W charging is available, I'm sure more laptops will go to USB C only for charging, but higher end laptops with multiple USB C ports could certainly allow charging from more than one port. 

[ejeffrey]

Did the laptops with round DC plugs have a different way to charge the battery? 

No, and barrel jack failure was a pretty common failure mode of those laptops too.  My laptop has 2 USB type C connectors and either can be used to charge, so it is actually redundant. 

Apples long discontinued magsafe was probably the best in terms of ruggedness but it was power only.  You can get magnetic disconnect adapters for usb C which are almost as good.  I'd recommend them if you are going to use a laptop somewhere the cord might get tripped over.

[coppice]

A month ago I have read (at Usenet electronic group) that someone found thrown away laptop and the only failure was USB-C. Laptop didn't had any other way to charge its battery. Now someone writing it is the happy owner of a relatively new laptop (older ones had normal round power connectors).

Did the laptops with round DC plugs have a different way to charge the battery?  Anything can be broken with enough abuse, but USB-C connectors have proven robust, more so than micro-USB IME.  It also provides way more functionality; multi-voltage, up to 240W power capability, video, audio etc..

The robustness of USB-C is not too bad for such a tiny connector, but are you REALLY trying to say its robust when compared to the large chunky coaxial DC connectors were have had on laptops for the last 3 decades? Being multi-functional is not an advantage. Its a large disadvantage. I want to power by computer regardless of what I am doing with things like video and audio, not watch video as an alternative to powering the machine. I realise we are going to have nothing but USB-C power going forwards, but be realistic. Its a horrible compromise.

[wraper]

A month ago I have read (at Usenet electronic group) that someone found thrown away laptop and the only failure was USB-C. Laptop didn't had any other way to charge its battery. Now someone writing it is the happy owner of a relatively new laptop (older ones had normal round power connectors).

Did the laptops with round DC plugs have a different way to charge the battery?  Anything can be broken with enough abuse, but USB-C connectors have proven robust, more so than micro-USB IME.  It also provides way more functionality; multi-voltage, up to 240W power capability, video, audio etc..

The robustness of USB-C is not too bad for such a tiny connector, but are you REALLY trying to say its robust when compared to the large chunky coaxial DC connectors were have had on laptops for the last 3 decades? Being multi-functional is not an advantage. Its a large disadvantage. I want to power by computer regardless of what I am doing with things like video and audio, not watch video as an alternative to powering the machine. I realise we are going to have nothing but USB-C power going forwards, but be realistic. Its a horrible compromise.

Good implementation of USB type C is way more robust than 99% of barrel jack connectors. Good implementation of micro USB is very robust too. The problem is poor implementation rather than connector type.

[coromonadalix]

i would get rid of the micro usb ...   but in industrial applications  i love  the B model,  yeah  big and clunky   but solid

seen some ripped off usb-c,      lots of ripped micro usb,  to play safe you could use chassis mounted ones  just in case ...   we dont use the micro  on our new designs, too much problems


even with good implementations, clients are ...........



as for Apple if i recall,    they were pressurized by the europeans  to use only the C,    bye bye lightning and others, who where a pain in the ...   still they sell genuine C  for $$  pff  because on some cheap ones,  the apple carplay  disconnect many times,  good ones = no problems

[coppice]

Good implementation of USB type C is way more robust than 99% of barrel jack connectors. Good implementation of micro USB is very robust too. The problem is poor implementation rather than connector type.

If this like communism? Its never really been tried? I've never seen a USB-C that offered much robustness.

[wraper]

Good implementation of USB type C is way more robust than 99% of barrel jack connectors. Good implementation of micro USB is very robust too. The problem is poor implementation rather than connector type.

If this like communism? Its never really been tried? I've never seen a USB-C that offered much robustness.

Really? Somehow they usually last for years of everyday abuse. Only poorly designed device models have widespread problems with them. BTW broken barrel jack in laptop is not rare at all.

[coppice]

Good implementation of USB type C is way more robust than 99% of barrel jack connectors. Good implementation of micro USB is very robust too. The problem is poor implementation rather than connector type.

If this like communism? Its never really been tried? I've never seen a USB-C that offered much robustness.

Really? Somehow they usually last for years of everyday abuse. BTW broken barrel jack in laptop is not rare at all.

One big advantage of USB over barrel jacks is they plug in at both ends. Barrel jack cables are normally captive at one end. This means if the USB plug is weaker than the socket any damage is usually to the plug, and you just replace the inexpensive lead, rather than damage the expensive appliance. In the early days of micro-B this used to work fairly well, and it was usually just the lead which needed to be replaced. Over time it seems like they made the plugs tougher, and I saw more and more damaged appliances (phones and tablets, mostly). My early experience with USB-C was tainted by some poor implementations, which didn't stake the connector in place well enough, so solder connections were broken with quite modest bumps. I think they have improved, but I'm not sure the picture looks that rosy even now.

Some notebooks had pretty flimsy barrel jacks, but serious business models, like the Thinkpads, had really chunky ones that were very hard to break. Lenovo changed to something that looked like a USB-A socket, but they were still pretty robust. Now they use USB-C, and you need to take considerable care.

[ejeffrey]

The robustness of USB-C is not too bad for such a tiny connector, but are you REALLY trying to say its robust when compared to the large chunky coaxial DC connectors were have had on laptops for the last 3 decades?

Yes.

Being multi-functional is not an advantage. Its a large disadvantage. I want to power by computer regardless of what I am doing with things like video and audio, not watch video as an alternative to powering the machine. I realise we are going to have nothing but USB-C power going forwards, but be realistic. Its a horrible compromise.

It's pretty nice that when I plug my laptop into a USB-C monitor it also provides power?  Also if it connects USB peripherals at the same time?  It's fine if you never do that, but pretending like that isn't a huge, huge advantage is pretty dumb.

Many laptops have multiple type-C ports so you can use one for charging and one for data if you want to.  Or two for data.  Or one for power input and one to connect to an external hard drive that also requires power.  Replacing a DC-only jack with a USB-C port provides _vastly_ more capability as long as you don't just eliminate the port -- which is also an advantage for people who want to save size and cost by having fewer ports, an option that wouldn't exist without type C.

[Someone]

Apples long discontinued magsafe was probably the best in terms of ruggedness but it was power only.

Discontinued?  ... no, their current power input method on all their shipping laptops.

Quite the opposite. And like mentioned above, in addition to power input on all the thunderbolt ports so full redundancy.

[ejeffrey]

Apples long discontinued magsafe was probably the best in terms of ruggedness but it was power only.

Discontinued?  ... no, their current power input method on all their shipping laptops.

Quite the opposite. And like mentioned above, in addition to power input on all the thunderbolt ports so full redundancy.

Huh.  Apparently they discontinued it from 2016-2021 and then brought it back?  After reusing the name for their wireless charging system for phones?  My wife's macbook only has USB-C, the one it replaced had magsafe.  I'm glad they brought it back.

[Konkedout]

Yes!!  My impression of USB-C is that it is too fragile for larger devices (such as a laptop.)  When I bought this Dell 2+ years ago, I looked for one with a barrel power connector.  Unfortunately they now use a smaller diameter so I need a (size only) adapter in order to use my older power adapters.  But I think I would continue to favor a laptop which uses a barrel connector for power instead of USB-C.

[Buriedcode]

Yeah, every time a thread like this comes up you can people who claim USB-x connectors are weak, but either don't have any examples of "common" failure, or only provide examples of extremely cheap and poorly implemented products.  Then there's the "planned obsolescence" folks.  A universal connector for charging is better for the vast majority of consumer goods, which is why there has been a push for one, rather than the drawers full of "chargers" destined for landfill.  It makes perfect sense, but isn't meant to replace all possible connectors for all situations - you don't find USB-C on equipment on a factory line would you?

I started switching the USB - C connectors in the middle of last year.  I provide dual cables (USB-MicroB with C adapter, or visa versa) to customers who have older designed micro-B equipment.

Now, for the record, I don't produce/repair any industrial gear that uses USB, only light-duty stuff, so I rarely see connector failure.  Time will tell but so far I haven't noticed much of a different in usage, except the obvious orientation thing no longer being a problem.  Given how small the construction is, I am surprised it isn't fragile, its quite impressive.

Edit: just to carify, I'm asking folks if they believe USB-C connectors aren't reliable, or have they actually experienced higher failure vs DC barrel jacks in laptops?  Because one is speculating, the other is objective. 

[thm_w]

i would get rid of the micro usb ...   but in industrial applications  i love  the B model,  yeah  big and clunky   but solid

B is good for industrial/rugged product agreed, if you have the space and either using for yourself or including a cable with the product.

micro B and mini B are garbage.

[wraper]

i would get rid of the micro usb ...   but in industrial applications  i love  the B model,  yeah  big and clunky   but solid

B is good for industrial/rugged product agreed, if you have the space and either using for yourself or including a cable with the product.

micro B and mini B are garbage.

USB B is probably the worst and the least rugged out of all USB connector types. It's holding on PCB just by two shell terminals with a bit of support from backside pins. But its SMT variant is borderline criminal.
EDIT, I just took PCB with USB B, wiggled the plug from one side to another with medium force about 20-30 times and it just broke off. If it was SMT, even 1-2 times could be enough

[coppice]

B is good for industrial/rugged product agreed, if you have the space and either using for yourself or including a cable with the product.

I think B can be good. I've never noticed anything about the design that looks bad. However, the implementations tend to have problems. I've never seen one 10 years old that hasn't corroded to the point of having contact problems. You can clean them up, and improve the contact stability a bit, but they are still going to be quirky from that point. Its easy enough to replace a lead, but the degraded socket on the equipment is a PITA. Maybe if you live in a very dry climate this doesn't happen so much.

[coppice]

USB B is probably the worst and the least rugged out of all USB connector types. It's holding on PCB just by two shell terminals with a bit of support from backside pins. But its SMT variant is borderline criminal.

Most SMT connectors are borderline criminal. The only connectors I've used which avoid all through holes and are fix in a robust manner are recent USB-C connectors that sit in a recess in the PCB, and are thoroughly soldered right through the recess. Some of those are really well supported by the board, and tracks won't just rip off the surface with a small bump. SMA coinnectors are the dumbest surface mount connectors I've experienced. They might be OK with angled SMA connectors on the lead, but people use them where long aerials are screwed into them, and the strain is massive.

[SiliconWizard]

I hadn't heard of anyone favoring USB micro-B to USB C for a good while. Entertaining.

There is one thing that makes micro-B, not "better", but easier: if you want to implement USB OTG (dual role). It's just one pin to handle with USB-B. With USB-C, if you want dual role, you'll have to use a dedicated chip (or a MCU that supports handling CC1/CC2). In terms of robustness, some micro-B connectors are ok, but many are pretty bad. USB-C is sturdier and all connectors I've seen have 4 anchor points.

And, whether one "likes" it or not, micro-B has essentially disappeared, so going for that for any new design doesn't make much sense.

[ebastler]

USB-C, no doubt. I would not worry so much about durability of the connector, especially if you don't expect to plug and unplug it a lot -- but rather about availability of a compatible, working power supply and cable 15 years from now. USB-C clearly wins on that front, since micro-B is already outdated today.

[coppice]

USB-C, no doubt. I would not worry so much about durability of the connector, especially if you don't expect to plug and unplug it a lot -- but rather about availability of a compatible, working power supply and cable 15 years from now. USB-C clearly wins on that front, since micro-B is already outdated today.

In 15 years it will properly be hard to find USB-C leads. We'll be on USB-D or USB-E by then.