Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Ventilator made from car parts
2N3055:
--- Quote from: Psi on April 07, 2020, 12:01:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 06, 2020, 01:20:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: madires on April 06, 2020, 11:00:27 am ---Unfortunately all those quickly hacked together ventilators will become e-junk after we'll have survived the corona virus, because none of them will get a standard approval. All they get is a temporary emergency permission.
--- End quote ---
I'm waiting to see if they'll even get that.
--- End quote ---
Even if the DIY stuff never gets temporary approval. The doctors and healthcare staff wont care, they will still use it.
All those DIY home laser cut and 3D printed face shields people are making aren't tested/approved but they're still being used in hospitals all over the place. With medical staff very happy to have something vs nothing.
If no medical ventilators are available but 10 people need one to make it through the night the medical staff will use whatever they can get ahold of. Even if it's not approved or not even medical equipment at all.
The typical rules, where hospitals won't try anything risky for fear of getting sued, are ignored in situations like this.
There's only so many times you can turn up to work and see people die because you don't have the gear to save them before you stop caring about company policy or rules in general.
If anyone from a hospitals legal team turns up in the ER saying.."You can't use that, it's not approved" they're likely to get punched in the face at best, or end up getting drugged, tied up and forgotten about in a utility room at worst.
--- End quote ---
It's not legal problem. Those things are medical ventilators in same manner that bicycle tire pump is a medical ventilator.
Watch the video.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/ventilator-made-from-car-parts/msg3001626/#msg3001626
And then, probably, you will understand why a real MD will not connect anybody to such contraption.... It is not a real ventilator, it's a Rube Goldberg contraption made by people who don't understand real problem and is equivalent to elementary school science project.
max_torque:
The fundamental difference here, in the Tesla Ventilator approach is that they are starting with an actual, proven on-the-self-available-in-the-tens-of-thousands supply chain that can "simply" be redirected from being built into 1000 cars a day (tesla produced 367,000 cars in 2019, that's 1000 for every day of the year! park 1000's cars in a line and you'll understand how impressive that actually is...) to being built into 1000 ventilators a day!
Yes, like any other knocked together and un-certified ventilator project, that may of may not be useful, but at least it is actually VIABLE unlike most/all the other lets-design-a-new-ventilator projects :-+
Psi:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 07, 2020, 12:28:09 pm ---It's not legal problem. Those things are medical ventilators in same manner that bicycle tire pump is a medical ventilator.
..
And then, probably, you will understand why a real MD will not connect anybody to such contraption.... It is not a real ventilator, it's a Rube Goldberg contraption made by people who don't understand real problem and is equivalent to elementary school science project.
--- End quote ---
That doesn't matter.
I will restate
There's only so many times you can turn up to work and see people die because you don't have the gear to save them before you stop caring about company policy or rules in general.
If it moves air in and out the medical staff will connect it to a person because 'no air moving in and out' is not a valid option!
eg You can worry about weather or not the lubrication in the pump was medical grade later,
2N3055:
--- Quote from: max_torque on April 07, 2020, 12:36:03 pm ---The fundamental difference here, in the Tesla Ventilator approach is that they are starting with an actual, proven on-the-self-available-in-the-tens-of-thousands supply chain that can "simply" be redirected from being built into 1000 cars a day (tesla produced 367,000 cars in 2019, that's 1000 for every day of the year! park 1000's cars in a line and you'll understand how impressive that actually is...) to being built into 1000 ventilators a day!
Yes, like any other knocked together and un-certified ventilator project, that may of may not be useful, but at least it is actually VIABLE unlike most/all the other lets-design-a-new-ventilator projects :-+
--- End quote ---
I agree with you. They are QUALIFIED to make mechanical pump part. And that part works. It's the other stuff as air humidifier, and breath control and monitoring electronics and systems integration that makes the medical ventilator. And without it it is dangerous to patients..
bd139:
@Psi...
Not really. That line of thought only works until:
1. You inflate someone like a cane toad, followed by a loud pop and bits of lung everywhere by accident because the equipment wasn't qualified and tested properly.
2. You turn a viable outcome into a poor outcome or life long disability because someone gets a lung full of machine oil.
3. It fails after 3 hours and kills the patient silently.
4. You get an American lawyer anywhere in the process.
Rules and standards are there for a reason. There's no space for iteration in these things.
I've worked on "safety critical systems" albeit ones that are supposed to kill only the people you point them at (I regret this if I'm honest) and the standards there are as high as the medical side of things. There are whole teams of people who's jobs are to come up with what ifs.
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