Author Topic: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?  (Read 2021 times)

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Offline popeTopic starter

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Please consider the following image/ diagram of a power module with incorporated fuse and voltage selector.  In this case an external power DPST is needed.

I believe that the wiring is correct. Is it?

If the IEC inlet's connectors are "solder lug" I can easily combine two wires into one lug as shown on the image (1&4), but how on earth do I do this if the module has "quick connect/ disconnect"? I really don't like the idea of crimping two wires onto one faston. What am I missing here?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 04:26:53 pm by pope »
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2024, 05:15:56 pm »
Quote
I really don't like the idea of crimping two wires onto one faston. What am I missing here?
piggy back fastons

 

Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2024, 05:33:45 pm »
Quote
I really don't like the idea of crimping two wires onto one faston. What am I missing here?
piggy back fastons

Yep. Work beautifully.
 

Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2024, 07:31:10 am »
OK I see, thanks. I wasn't aware of these.

Do you know if sleeves for piggy back fastons exist? Something like this on the pic but for the piggy back ones. I can't find anything...


 

Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2024, 11:01:44 am »
Just use the normal ones.
 

Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2024, 11:03:59 am »
Just use the normal ones.

You mean two single ones instead of a dedicated piggyback one, right? OK, thanks. Perhaps that's why piggyback sleeves don't exist.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2024, 05:22:00 pm »
If the IEC inlet's connectors are "solder lug" I can easily combine two wires into one lug as shown on the image (1&4), but how on earth do I do this if the module has "quick connect/ disconnect"? I really don't like the idea of crimping two wires onto one faston.
While the piggyback Fastons are the elegant solution, I will point out that crimping two wires onto one terminal is a perfectly acceptable practice, provided it's done correctly. Above all, this means having the correct size crimp for the combined wire cross-section.

Here's TE's acceptance criteria: https://www.te.com/content/dam/te-com/documents/application-tooling/global/65784_Crimp%20Quality%20Poster_ENGLISH_26x13%20version.pdf


You can also get Faston adapters, like these:
Digikey category, filtered
 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 06:58:44 am by tooki »
 
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Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2024, 06:23:47 pm »
Just use the normal ones.

You mean two single ones instead of a dedicated piggyback one, right? OK, thanks. Perhaps that's why piggyback sleeves don't exist.

Yes. The only exposed part will be the flat section at the bottom. If you're in a situation where the piggy back tab will be unused, use a piece of shrink tubing to isolate it.
In fact, you can even do this for the mentioned flat part.
 

Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2024, 10:30:13 am »
Thank you all for the very useful information! Much appreciated  :-+

Speaking of festons. Do you think that brass/tin is a good choice for mains? This is the most commonly available option.
 

Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2024, 05:00:50 pm »
Speaking of festons. Do you think that brass/tin is a good choice for mains? This is the most commonly available option.

Perfect. Don't get into any gold-plated or whatever stuff.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2024, 07:59:54 pm »
Speaking of festons. Do you think that brass/tin is a good choice for mains? This is the most commonly available option.

Perfect. Don't get into any gold-plated or whatever stuff.
Given that gold-plated ones are extremely exotic special-order items with military prices, this is slightly unnecessary advice. ;)

(Remember that gold plating is normally used for low-current and/or low-force connectors with little or no wiping action. Fastons are very high-force connectors, so a single insertion would chew right through gold plating. That makes the plating doubly useless, since it wouldn’t survive the first insertion, but also unnecessary because insertion cuts fairly deeply into the surface, exposing clean metal.)
 
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Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2024, 08:44:22 pm »
Thanks for the lecture.   :=\

But more important is to use quality brands like TE or Vogt.
I've seen faston connectors from China that are made from brass so thin or soft as to be unusable.
And it's not like this is expensive stuff. Save yourself the pain and spend a couple of cents more.
 

Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2024, 08:55:37 pm »
So, I've been thinking of using this female connector with a TE power switch. However the switch has the male "blades" with a hole in the middle. Does this mean that another TE/Faston female connector is required?

Sorry for these basic questions but there are so many different options that it's very difficult to find the correct/ safest combination.
 

Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2024, 09:52:00 pm »
All faston males I know of have a hole in the middle.
The female part has a dimple or a "springy bridge" that secures the connection mechanically.
Don't drive yourself crazy, they all fit together.

There's only one trap: the 6.3 mm faston also has a "thin-blade" version (0.5 mm), but it's very rare.
Stick with the standard types and you're OK.

Edit: for mains, I'd go for a 14...18 AWG (>0.75 mm2) type. 18...22 AWG is too thin.

Oops: Forgot AMP. Check this:
https://www.buerklin.com/en/c/connectors/crimp-connectors/receptacles/40101400/?facet.8266_geeignet_fuer=6.35+x+0.81+mm&facet.8399_material=brass%2C+tin-plated&facet.8321_isoliert=false&facet.8024_anschluss=crimp+connection&facet.8381_leiterquerschnitt=0.51+to+1.65+mm%C2%B2
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 10:31:35 pm by Benta »
 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2024, 11:17:11 pm »
Quote
There's only one trap: the 6.3 mm faston also has a "thin-blade" version (0.5 mm), but it's very rare.
Stick with the standard types and you're OK.
Also,whilst not as common theirs the odd bugger ( neutrik im looking at you ) who decides 4.8mm is the size to use
 

Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2024, 11:43:33 pm »
Quote
There's only one trap: the 6.3 mm faston also has a "thin-blade" version (0.5 mm), but it's very rare.
Stick with the standard types and you're OK.
Also,whilst not as common theirs the odd bugger ( neutrik im looking at you ) who decides 4.8mm is the size to use

Dunno what you're on about.
I use all three faston standard sizes (2.8 mm, 4.8 mm and 6.3 mm, all in 0.8 mm thickness) as required by the application.
Same crimp tool, just different current levels and cable sizes.
Also helps keep signal/power/mains separated and not wrongly inserted by a moron.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 11:47:12 pm by Benta »
 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2024, 12:04:39 am »
Quote
I use all three faston standard sizes (2.8 mm, 4.8 mm and 6.3 mm, all in 0.8 mm thickness) as required by the application.
Same crimp tool, just different current levels and cable sizes.
Also helps keep signal/power/mains separated and not wrongly inserted by a moron.
yea but you sorta expect a connector rated at  230v  20A  to use 6.3mm ,but that aint always the case so best to double check if your buying in for a specific job
 

Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2024, 07:41:36 am »
All faston males I know of have a hole in the middle.
The female part has a dimple or a "springy bridge" that secures the connection mechanically.
Don't drive yourself crazy, they all fit together.

There's only one trap: the 6.3 mm faston also has a "thin-blade" version (0.5 mm), but it's very rare.
Stick with the standard types and you're OK.

Edit: for mains, I'd go for a 14...18 AWG (>0.75 mm2) type. 18...22 AWG is too thin.

thanks for the advice. The reason I used 18...22 AWG is because the transformer's primaries use 20ish AWG wires (cross-section=0.52mm2) with a 2.15mm insulation thickness.

Having said that, the connectors have already arrived and the wire insulation won't fit into it the connector, although the connector claims:

Compatible Insulation Diameter Range : 1.52 – 2.54 mm [ .06 – .1 in ]

 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 07:49:13 am by pope »
 

Online Benta

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2024, 07:10:56 pm »
In that case, you have a couple of options which both include using 0.75...1.5 mm2 fastons:
1: place a ferrule on the end of the wires. Works for both solid and stranded wire.
2: for stranded wire, remove a double length of insulation and fold back the strands for double cross-section in the crimp area.
 
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Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2024, 07:48:25 am »
Since we are on this could you recommend some good crimping tool? I'm not planning to spend thousands of $$$ that TE wants me too.

I've been thinking something along these lines which is around 200 euro but any suggestion is very welcome

https://www.knipex.com/products/crimping-pliers/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-with-changer-magazine/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-changer-magazine/973301
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2024, 12:14:33 pm »
Since we are on this could you recommend some good crimping tool? I'm not planning to spend thousands of $$$ that TE wants me too.

I've been thinking something along these lines which is around 200 euro but any suggestion is very welcome

https://www.knipex.com/products/crimping-pliers/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-with-changer-magazine/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-changer-magazine/973301
At work, I have two Knipex crimp tools: the 97 52 36  (for insulated terminals) and the 97 43 200 handle + several sets of dies, including the dies for the same insulated terminals, as well as for uninsulated terminals.

While they're both good, I STRONGLY prefer the 97 43 200, for two reasons: 1. it takes much less force to operate, and 2. the jaws move almost perfectly vertically ("parallel" action), which produces better crimps.

The 97 33 01 and the 97 52 36 both have the more angled jaw action, rather than the parallel. So I would much sooner recommend the 97 43 200 and the 97 49 04 or 97 49 05 dies.
 

Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2024, 03:10:46 pm »
Since we are on this could you recommend some good crimping tool? I'm not planning to spend thousands of $$$ that TE wants me too.

I've been thinking something along these lines which is around 200 euro but any suggestion is very welcome

https://www.knipex.com/products/crimping-pliers/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-with-changer-magazine/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-changer-magazine/973301
At work, I have two Knipex crimp tools: the 97 52 36  (for insulated terminals) and the 97 43 200 handle + several sets of dies, including the dies for the same insulated terminals, as well as for uninsulated terminals.

While they're both good, I STRONGLY prefer the 97 43 200, for two reasons: 1. it takes much less force to operate, and 2. the jaws move almost perfectly vertically ("parallel" action), which produces better crimps.

The 97 33 01 and the 97 52 36 both have the more angled jaw action, rather than the parallel. So I would much sooner recommend the 97 43 200 and the 97 49 04 or 97 49 05 dies.

Thanks. I will take a look at these suggestions. Have you used the 97 49 95 locator by any chance? If so, is it worth it?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2024, 07:35:31 pm »
No, I haven’t used it, so unfortunately I cannot comment on it from experience. But as a general rule locators are great, since they help ensure consistency and generally make it easier to use the tool.
 

Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2024, 07:59:34 pm »
No, I haven’t used it, so unfortunately I cannot comment on it from experience. But as a general rule locators are great, since they help ensure consistency and generally make it easier to use the tool.

thanks tooki!
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2024, 11:51:10 am »
I’ll add that if you just need to crimp a few, and your application can tolerate the occasional failed crimp which you have to cut off and redo, it’s likely not worth the cost of the locator. If your application cannot tolerate failure (e.g. if you need to crimp to short wires that have zero excess) or you need to do lots of them, locators are well worth it.
 
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Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2024, 12:38:59 pm »
I’ll add that if you just need to crimp a few, and your application can tolerate the occasional failed crimp which you have to cut off and redo, it’s likely not worth the cost of the locator. If your application cannot tolerate failure (e.g. if you need to crimp to short wires that have zero excess) or you need to do lots of them, locators are well worth it.

Thanks. I need to do quite a few and I'd rather spend a bit more and be on the safe side.

BTW, is there any other brand/ model that I could look into? Just for comparison really. since knipex is the first I came across. Knowing my luck, there's almost always a better solution with similar cost/ performance ratio  :)
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2024, 06:16:50 pm »
Not really, without resorting to the $$$ stuff from TE, etc.

Several other tool manufacturers that focus on electrical tools or components (Weidmüller, Phoenix Contact, Vogt, Greenlee, etc.) sell crimp tools, but they’re no cheaper than Knipex (and some may in fact be rebadged Knipex), so I don’t see much point in it.

FYI, if you encounter the Rennsteig brand, that’s Knipex’s subsidiary that actually makes their crimp tools. So if you should encounter the equivalent Rennsteig tool for less money than the Knipex, go for it! It’ll just be black and green instead of blue and red. :P

However, one very happy way to get the $$$ TE/AMP tools (or other major manufacturers like Molex) for $ is to get them on eBay (or local equivalent) or classifieds. I’ve managed to get multiple $$ crimp tools ($300-500 each) for $60-120 brand new in box, and a $700 DMC indent crimper used for $150. The downside is that this may require patience. Since Fastons have been around since forever, I expect there are a lot of the tools on eBay, as long as you’re OK with the tool looking kinda beat up, and the time needed to search the listings.

Finally, I will say that Fastons used with thicker wire (perhaps 16AWG and up) are among the most forgiving crimp contacts, so one of the best Chinese crimpers (like IWISS) will usually do an OK job on them. (I’ve had less consistent results with thinner wires.) But you won’t have a locator, and it’s a bit of a crapshoot whether a given tool will produce good results, or produce them consistently. (I’ve largely written off Chinese crimpers, as I have come to value my time and sanity — and the satisfaction of a good tool — over saving a buck.)
 
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Offline popeTopic starter

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2024, 06:22:18 pm »
Great info. Thanks  :-+
 

Offline exmadscientist

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Re: Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2024, 04:09:29 am »
If you come across the TE/Amp "midrange" tool 59824-1, it's an amazing piece of kit. It handles a much wider range of terminals than their "high end" stuff, so it's pretty much the only crimp tool you need for fastons, rings, etc., if you stick with TE's PIDG line. And it's fully UL approved, which is strong evidence that it's going to give great results.

Unfortunately the price has doubled (I think) in the last few years, so it's not the bargain it used to be. And the specimens on eBay, last I looked, were unimpressive. But if you come across one that looks tempting, go for it!
 
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