Author Topic: What is happening with Maxim?  (Read 7593 times)

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Offline tszaboo

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2021, 09:50:39 pm »

Are we going back to designing things with reliably available discrete components instead of modern ICs?
Sure. 4 years ago I couldnt buy TVS diodes somehow. And a bunch of MOS gets obsoleted every year, because they have a betterererer package, which is not footprint compatible, but smaller, and no second source. JFETs are impossible to buy. If you designed in a dual transistor few years back, you are also out of luck. I dont think I can design a circuit with BC817 and 1N4001 (SOT-23 package, the other might be out of stock)and 10 KOhm resistors to be honest.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2021, 12:56:57 am »
[...]  If you designed in a dual transistor few years back, you are also out of luck. [...]

Yeah, I wonder why they disappeared?  - actually rather handy...
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2021, 08:27:13 am »
[...]  If you designed in a dual transistor few years back, you are also out of luck. [...]

Yeah, I wonder why they disappeared?  - actually rather handy...


The "good stuff" gets all replaced by more or less "one special purpose" IC, that the manufacturers can sell with higher margins to inexperienced (younger, fresh from university) engineers. I was told this statement (not by the words, but in this sense) by some TI (afair) FAE / marketing guys when I asked why the heck they have that many very specialized IC for similar purposes. Yes, they want to you to get lost in their selection lists, then ask them for help, which they'll gladly offer to you, and then they'll select a device that is good for their revenue.
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Online peter-hTopic starter

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2021, 08:29:01 am »
Discrete components are however usually multi multi sourced. Also there is no shortage of most of them - because the end product demand has hardly increased and the current bubble is just stock hoarding by those who can afford it.

JFETs are rarely used today because most people don't know what a JFET does :) To most designers, it's a bit like a krytron :)

"the manufacturers can sell with higher margins to inexperienced (younger, fresh from university) engineers. "

Spot on. Nobody designing a product for their own business would use most of those chips. For a start, you want to minimise your stock list. So you use a 4k7 instead of a 3k9 :)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 08:37:38 am by peter-h »
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Offline tszaboo

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2021, 11:55:16 am »
[...]  If you designed in a dual transistor few years back, you are also out of luck. [...]

Yeah, I wonder why they disappeared?  - actually rather handy...


The "good stuff" gets all replaced by more or less "one special purpose" IC, that the manufacturers can sell with higher margins to inexperienced (younger, fresh from university) engineers. I was told this statement (not by the words, but in this sense) by some TI (afair) FAE / marketing guys when I asked why the heck they have that many very specialized IC for similar purposes. Yes, they want to you to get lost in their selection lists, then ask them for help, which they'll gladly offer to you, and then they'll select a device that is good for their revenue.
Inexperienced? I wouldn't say so. I design in quite a lot of special purpose ICs, like load switches instead of passive parts and a tiny FET. Or a shunt amplifier instead of a general purpose opamp and the passive parts. It's not like I cannot design in the older general purpose part. I don't have the time to do so.

I would say it is inexperienced (people who call themselves) managers that are responsible. In the past 10 years, I never had the luxury of testing a board completely, or to investigate more than one solutions to a problem. Everything is needed yesterday, the client is waiting for it. I cannot say, yeah, I used an LM358 and some resistors and transistors, but I have to spend 2-4 days characterizing the circuit, maybe place a few in a thermal chamber to make sure that it works in worst case temperature conditions.

No, what I'm going to do is place there an INA193, that costs 3x the price, that has 100% characterized performance. And my testing will be 5 minutes. I honestly couldn't care less if the product cost more because of this. I drew the triange of cost-time-quality every single project, and they always choose all three, which doesn't work that way. Since the only performance indicator of my work that they are measuring is time, I'm just going to choose whatever is the most convenient for myself.
 
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Online peter-hTopic starter

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2021, 02:41:18 pm »
Well, yes, in a premium price area one can use premium price chips. Especially in low volume stuff, where the price of silicon is likely to be almost immaterial.

But then one should not complain when the said chip (which probably never saw decent volumes) gets discontinued. There is no solution to that.

I looked up the INA193. Clever chip, and cheap for what it does. They don't give the CM spec as % and the "80db" sounds like the two resistors are 0.1% or better on ratio.
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Offline Terry Bites

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2021, 04:02:25 pm »
Shitty, surely you mean dynamic and "agile", "what our customers demand". 
Or just degenerate gamblers?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2021, 05:18:00 pm »
The first few have gone from £0.40 (10k+) to over £2. And this isn't just the current chip bubble. Maxim have been raising prices continually.
A lot of things have changed over 20 years, one of them being the GBP’s decline in value relative to other currencies.

The other thing is that for old parts, we may be seeing reduced economies of scale. Old parts are made on old processes, and if the newer stuff is made on newer, more efficient processes, the volume for the old stuff goes down, effectively increasing the cost of each production run on old processes.
 

Online peter-hTopic starter

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2021, 07:12:34 pm »
Yeah - I remember the $2.40 = £1 too :) But I am talking of 50p 5 years ago.

And TI are selling much cheaper versions of some Maxim parts for much less - see foregoing posts. It is as if Maxim are extracting what they can get from inertia-bound large companies.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 07:37:21 pm by peter-h »
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Offline tooki

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2021, 04:42:02 pm »
They probably don’t charge the large companies any more than TI would. They probably just want to discourage small customers. :/
 

Offline Cervisia

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2021, 03:43:33 pm »
Are we going back to designing things with reliably available discrete components instead of modern ICs?

Sure as long as it doesn't include a JFET...

So what about a discrete JFET as an IC?
https://www.ti.com/product/JFE150
 
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Offline E-Design

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2021, 11:51:57 pm »
Are we going back to designing things with reliably available discrete components instead of modern ICs?

Sure as long as it doesn't include a JFET...

So what about a discrete JFET as an IC?
https://www.ti.com/product/JFE150

Well.. no problem.. its fine to use.


Until it isnt.
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Online peter-hTopic starter

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2021, 03:36:43 pm »
I am looking at replacing the MAX3089 with the ISL3173 (question mark re 5V VCC operation) and with the SN65HVD55DR (costs even more than the MAX3089!) - thanks for the tip earlier.

The ISL has a gotcha in that it draws way more current on the TXE pin, so a 10k pullup is no good. Somebody else on the internet had got burnt with that... It actually takes a very careful examination of the various chip functions to work out a circuit into which any of these can be simply dropped.

But neither is available from distribution. Only the overpriced outlets like Mouser have stock, at about 3x the distribution price I've been quoted today. That's a similar price to the cowboy sellers in the US.

It's gonna be interesting how far this situation collapses, when it does.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 03:38:45 pm by peter-h »
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2021, 05:00:58 pm »
I am looking at replacing the MAX3089 with the ISL3173 (question mark re 5V VCC operation) and with the SN65HVD55DR (costs even more than the MAX3089!) - thanks for the tip earlier.

The ISL has a gotcha in that it draws way more current on the TXE pin, so a 10k pullup is no good. Somebody else on the internet had got burnt with that... It actually takes a very careful examination of the various chip functions to work out a circuit into which any of these can be simply dropped.

But neither is available from distribution. Only the overpriced outlets like Mouser have stock, at about 3x the distribution price I've been quoted today. That's a similar price to the cowboy sellers in the US.

It's gonna be interesting how far this situation collapses, when it does.

When you begin designing UARTs around vacuum tubes, you know the situation has collapsed!  :D
 

Online peter-hTopic starter

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Re: What is happening with Maxim?
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2021, 02:30:36 pm »
Replacing Maxim parts with TI parts is quite a fun exercise. I've spent the last few days on it :) Once the bigger customers wisen up to this, Maxim will lose big chunks of their sales, totally, and will never get them back.

Renesas won't comment on the ISL3173 at 5V. They say it is below the absolute max (7V) but aren't saying it will function. Quite strange.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 02:48:05 pm by peter-h »
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