Wha'ts the world's biggest transistor?

[Fried Chicken]

Let's say I wanted to control a lawnmower motor with a transistor...  What's the world's biggest transistor?  I know power amplifiers have some big transistors, but what if we get into the stupid range?

[T3sl4co1l]

Well they run cars with 'em so it better be a pretty damn big lawn mower!

Biggest are in the range of 4kV 2kA, for industrial motor drives and other power conversion applications.  Give or take whether you count just IGBTs, or include SCRs as well (they transist, but not in as straightforward a manner as IGBTs do).  The biggest of any semiconductors are SCRs, pushing more like 7kV, 4kA, or probably more, I haven't checked in a while.

HVDC links are probably the most powerful monolithic application; with power ratings in the GW, they're constructed from stacks of semiconductors, I think usually SCRs or GCTs.

I'm not sure offhand if IGBT modules of that size are made from whole wafers, or many smaller dies in parallel.  It does tend to be difficult to use large dies, over 2cm or so, due to differential thermal expansion between the chip and mounting base (typically Cu and AlN).  The "puck" modules get around this by sandwiching the die between molybdenum pads, which has similar expansion rate, but the sandwich versus a metallurgical bond (I think, unless they are soldered or otherwise bonded as well; I forget) relieves thermal stress, permitting quite large dies to be used (~whole wafer).

Tim

[Smokey]

...
I'm not sure offhand if IGBT modules of that size are made from whole wafers, or many smaller dies in parallel. 
...

...All the big modules I've seen are in parallel.

[Fried Chicken]

Well they run cars with 'em so it better be a pretty damn big lawn mower!

Biggest are in the range of 4kV 2kA, for industrial motor drives and other power conversion applications.  Give or take whether you count just IGBTs, or include SCRs as well (they transist, but not in as straightforward a manner as IGBTs do).  The biggest of any semiconductors are SCRs, pushing more like 7kV, 4kA, or probably more, I haven't checked in a while.

HVDC links are probably the most powerful monolithic application; with power ratings in the GW, they're constructed from stacks of semiconductors, I think usually SCRs or GCTs.

I'm not sure offhand if IGBT modules of that size are made from whole wafers, or many smaller dies in parallel.  It does tend to be difficult to use large dies, over 2cm or so, due to differential thermal expansion between the chip and mounting base (typically Cu and AlN).  The "puck" modules get around this by sandwiching the die between molybdenum pads, which has similar expansion rate, but the sandwich versus a metallurgical bond (I think, unless they are soldered or otherwise bonded as well; I forget) relieves thermal stress, permitting quite large dies to be used (~whole wafer).

Tim

What is IGBT, SCR, HVDC, Cu (copper), AIN?

What do they look like?  How much do they cost?  Where do you buy them?  What drive them, 0.7v? lol

[ArdWar]

FWIW you don't need world's biggest transistor to drive a lawnmower motor.

Not even close.

[tggzzz]

FWIW you don't need world's biggest transistor to drive a lawnmower motor.

Not even close.

Quite.

I'd start by looking at HVDC power transmission systems, subsea and otherwise. Consider, for example...

Today the HVDC power transmission technology is developing at fast pace permitting transfer of
large quantities of electrical power from big capacity power plants, mainly hydro, to big consumer
regions across hundreds or thousands of kilometres. The latest examples of such projects include
the overhead Xiangjiaba-Shanghai interconnector in China and the Rio Madeira HVDC system in
Brazil. The Xiangjiaba-Shanghai line is the world’s first UHVDC connection. It operates at ±800 kV
and transfers 7200 MW from the Xiangjiaba hydropower plant in southwest China to Shanghai,
which is 2000 km further away. It is a single overhead line. The losses are rated at less than 7%.
The Rio Madeira HVDC system is the longest transmission link in the world. It carries 6300 MW
from new hydro power plants on the Madeira River (Porto Velho) to urban centres in south-eastern
Brazil over 2375 km, operating at 600 kV.

https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/res3/HVDC-Submarine-Power-Cables-in-the-World.pdf
HVDC Submarine Power Cables in the World

That contains a lot of interesting information, e.g. that planned 1.4GW cables have paper insulation, weight 60kg/m and have a diameter of 150mm.

[jonpaul]

deend on application, and freq, and def of transistor.
eg thyristor,  IGBT, SiC, etc


for mains power control ? SMPS? Lighting? power T&D? Industrual control?


j

[tggzzz]

deend on application, and freq, and def of transistor.
eg thyristor,  IGBT, SiC, etc


for mains power control ? SMPS? Lighting? power T&D? Industrual control?

The OP's question is, of course, malformed - so any answer is moot Nonetheless some of the irrelevant answers have been moderately interesting.

IMHO the biggest transistor is likely to be a naked-silicon 2N2222/BC108/etc packaged in a 19" rack case.

[SeanB]

I have some BUX 20 transistors, which are about the biggest die you can fit into a TO3 package. Have taken apart some industrial transistor arrays, which are made up of a dozen smaller dies, about 1cm by 1cm, that are bonded with lots of bond wires for the emitter to a busbar, and with a common collector plate on an aluminia insulator, allowing them to be rated for up to 1000A at 100V, and with a last die used to drive the rest all in parallel, along with an equal number of diodes clamping reverse spikes on the main transistors. Gain of around 100 at 1000A emitter current, and with a heatsink that had to handle 2kW of power dissipation at that level.

The MOSFET replacement modules dissipate 100W for the same power level.....

[Zero999]

Well they run cars with 'em so it better be a pretty damn big lawn mower!

Biggest are in the range of 4kV 2kA, for industrial motor drives and other power conversion applications.  Give or take whether you count just IGBTs, or include SCRs as well (they transist, but not in as straightforward a manner as IGBTs do).  The biggest of any semiconductors are SCRs, pushing more like 7kV, 4kA, or probably more, I haven't checked in a while.

HVDC links are probably the most powerful monolithic application; with power ratings in the GW, they're constructed from stacks of semiconductors, I think usually SCRs or GCTs.

I'm not sure offhand if IGBT modules of that size are made from whole wafers, or many smaller dies in parallel.  It does tend to be difficult to use large dies, over 2cm or so, due to differential thermal expansion between the chip and mounting base (typically Cu and AlN).  The "puck" modules get around this by sandwiching the die between molybdenum pads, which has similar expansion rate, but the sandwich versus a metallurgical bond (I think, unless they are soldered or otherwise bonded as well; I forget) relieves thermal stress, permitting quite large dies to be used (~whole wafer).

Tim

What is IGBT, SCR, HVDC, Cu (copper), AIN?

What do they look like?  How much do they cost?  Where do you buy them?  What drive them, 0.7v? lol

A search engine is your friend.

Start again. What are you trying to do? How many amps and volts does your lawn mower motor use? Is it AC (mains) or DC from a battery? Is it being repurposed i.e. in a lathe or e go-kart project? It doesn't sound like a beginner friendly project.

[tggzzz]

Start again. What are you trying to do?

See the OP's posting history!

[Xena E]

My lawnmower uses a switch!

Irrelevant enough for you?

[coppice]

The biggest of any semiconductors are SCRs, pushing more like 7kV, 4kA, or probably more, I haven't checked in a while.

I've seen power people referring to 50kA SCRs.

[Clear as mud]

What is IGBT, SCR, HVDC, Cu (copper), AIN?

IGBT and SCR are special types of transistors, normally used in high-power situations.  IGBT is insulated gate bipolar transistor, and SCR is silicon controlled rectifier.  See Wikipedia or a primer on different types of transistors.

HVDC is high voltage direct current.  The last few decades as transistor technology has advanced, it has become possible and economical to use DC for power transmission lines instead of AC.  In the past, AC was always used because the voltage can be easily changed using a transformer, increased for transmission over long distances, and then decreased for distribution and utilization.  But the losses are higher along an AC transmission line.  The longer the distance you try to transmit a lot of power, the higher the losses.  So, HVDC is now used for long-distance power transmission.

AlN is aluminum nitride.  I didn't look it up, but it must be a non-conductive solid or a semiconductor.

What do they look like?

I did an image search for  "HVDC transistors."

Here is a picture of what one IGBT module looks like:
https://eepower.com/news/mitsubishi-electric-launching-voltage-source-converters-for-global-hvdc-market/

And on this page is a picture of a whole installation at a power transmission station:
https://blog.faradars.org/hvdc-%DA%86%DB%8C%D8%B3%D8%AA/.

[JohanH]

HVDC submarine cables use the sea as one conductor! So they are able to use only one cable. The sea has almost negligible resistance. DC cable losses are only 0.3-0.4% per 100 km.

https://library.e.abb.com/public/d4863a9b0f77b74ec1257b0c00552758/HVDC%20Cable%20Transmission.pdf

[Zero999]

My lawnmower uses a switch!

Irrelevant enough for you?

Interestingly, I've seen a vacuum cleaner with a foot switch which too small to directly switch the motor, so it switches the gate of a TRIAC, which switches the motor.

[schmitt trigger]

A Siemens Energy brochure mentions thyristors with a 6” wafer size! Capable of switching 6.5 kA.

It also mentions that early 1970s technology required about 28 thousand thyristors per gigawatt for both valve halls. Nowadays this has been reduced to about 600 thyristors per gigawatt. This is an amazing power handling improvement.

It only shows a low resolution image of the thyristor, but imagine 3 individual-sized pizzas stacked vertically, and you have an idea of its size.

[tggzzz]

HVDC submarine cables use the sea as one conductor! So they are able to use only one cable. The sea has almost negligible resistance. DC cable losses are only 0.3-0.4% per 100 km.

https://library.e.abb.com/public/d4863a9b0f77b74ec1257b0c00552758/HVDC%20Cable%20Transmission.pdf

Not necessarily; some parts of the sea are less saline than others, and metal corrosion can be a problem. See section 2.3.2 "HVDC Configurations" in the report in my reply #5.

[Fried Chicken]

Start again. What are you trying to do?

Find out what the world's biggest transistor is.  If it even is a transistor in the traditional sense.

[Xena E]

My lawnmower uses a switch!

Irrelevant enough for you?

Interestingly, I've seen a vacuum cleaner with a foot switch which too small to directly switch the motor, so it switches the gate of a TRIAC, which switches the motor.

I guess the day when a mechanical switch capable of switching at KW levels of power is cheaper than a smaller one of a few Watts rating plus a semiconductor is long gone.

The lawn mower incidentally is a 24 volt battery job and the charger for the gel cells is far more technically advanced than the machine itself... though the pass element in that is incorporated in one of those little 7 pin dil switcher chips, so even that doesn't come close to the OP's requirement to run his electric combined harvester 

[nali]

Start again. What are you trying to do?

Find out what the world's biggest transistor is.  If it even is a transistor in the traditional sense.

Here you go... Google is your friend 
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/bell-laboratories-transistor-water-tower

[Zero999]

Start again. What are you trying to do?

Find out what the world's biggest transistor is.  If it even is a transistor in the traditional sense.

And what the heck does that have to do with a lawn mower motor?

Let's say I wanted to control a lawnmower motor with a transistor...  What's the world's biggest transistor?  I know power amplifiers have some big transistors, but what if we get into the stupid range?

[Fried Chicken]

Start again. What are you trying to do?

Find out what the world's biggest transistor is.  If it even is a transistor in the traditional sense.

And what the heck does that have to do with a lawn mower motor?

Let's say I wanted to control a lawnmower motor with a transistor...  What's the world's biggest transistor?  I know power amplifiers have some big transistors, but what if we get into the stupid range?

I guess I should have explained... I was looking at someone building a lawnmower, and I wasn't sure transistors even got large enough to conceivably do that, so I thought a lawnmower was a ridiculous application for a transistor, like you would use something else to power it.  Turns out that's not the case, and transistors get quite large.

[Zero999]

Start again. What are you trying to do?

Find out what the world's biggest transistor is.  If it even is a transistor in the traditional sense.

And what the heck does that have to do with a lawn mower motor?

Let's say I wanted to control a lawnmower motor with a transistor...  What's the world's biggest transistor?  I know power amplifiers have some big transistors, but what if we get into the stupid range?

I guess I should have explained... I was looking at someone building a lawnmower, and I wasn't sure transistors even got large enough to conceivably do that, so I thought a lawnmower was a ridiculous application for a transistor, like you would use something else to power it.  Turns out that's not the case, and transistors get quite large.

You were quite mistaken. There are transistors capable of switching far greater loads than a lawn mower motor, which is a fairly small in the scheme of things.

You received some irrelevant replies because you didn't say exactly what you're doing. What's the world's biggest transistor? is a meaningless question. Are you talking about physical size, current rating, voltage rating, power dissipation?

I had a quick look through Digi Key and found some transistors which are more than capable of switching a lawn mower motor. As you made no mention of voltage, or whether it's DC or AC, I assumed smoothened DC, from a bridge rectifier powering a universal motor, drawing around 1kW or so.

https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/STP45N40DM2AG/5724369
https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/ff/da/51/30/5f/70/4e/77/DM00213649.pdf/files/DM00213649.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00213649.pdf

https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/infineon-technologies/IRFR4620TRLPBF/2021282
https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/irfr4620pbf.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a4015356323ae920f7

They're not that expensive considering. Anther option is to use thyristors for part of the bridge rectifier, which would probably be cheaper but not so flexible.

[T3sl4co1l]

The biggest of any semiconductors are SCRs, pushing more like 7kV, 4kA, or probably more, I haven't checked in a while.

I've seen power people referring to 50kA SCRs.

Only for surge ratings I think.  Like you can use a 3-4" puck for quarter shrinker application, though it doesn't perform quite as well as an ignitron, or contactor (preferably explosively-actuated).  Those are typically 2-4kA I think, RMS, and about 50kA surge.

Does stand to reason that, if they're making them of 12" wafers instead of 3, they can handle a good 16 times more RMS.  Probably less actually, because it'll be harder to cool, especially in a stack, but, practical versus device limitations being what they are...

Tim