Author Topic: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?  (Read 7457 times)

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Offline SimonTopic starter

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where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« on: January 30, 2020, 03:36:25 pm »
where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
 

Offline KaneTW

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Offline filssavi

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 pm »
From any reasonably large supplier of test equipment really, once you are willing to fork out few kilodollars
I personally used Agilents, TDK lambdas, and elektro automatik ones, and they all work fine for what they are meant to do

Few caveats:
-they are generally loud as hell, even with disabled outputs or when at low power
-regulation at low voltage (up to 30/40V) and no load is poor to non existent

Edit: I would request a demo from a sales person before buying
 
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Offline SimonTopic starter

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Offline BravoV

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« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 04:55:30 pm by BravoV »
 

Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2020, 06:43:51 pm »
Hmm once upon a time we needed something similar for an ancient wheel lathe we had been gifted for the steam loco repair shops of the railway preservation society of northern Ireland :) This is quite a large lathe capable of swinging a pair 6ft6" drivers on axle.  Well if you think about it 600VDC is quite close to 415VAC a very common three phase supply voltage here in the UK, so a nice set of silicon rectifiers (6) did the job magnificently :)

Now Simon your might say too primitive but TBH you did not say what your application was.

https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 06:45:57 pm by fourtytwo42 »
 
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Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2020, 06:44:49 pm »
I have a few. But I haven't worked out how to operate them. Work in progress ;)
 

Offline james_s

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2020, 06:58:17 pm »
Hmm once upon a time we needed something similar for an ancient wheel lathe we had been gifted for the steam loco repair shops of the railway preservation society of northern Ireland :) This is quite a large lathe capable of swinging a pair 6ft6" drivers on axle.  Well if you think about it 600VDC is quite close to 415VAC a very common three phase supply voltage here in the UK, so a nice set of silicon rectifiers (6) did the job magnificently :)

Now Simon your might say too primitive but TBH you did not say what your application was.

https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/


Isn't that how they get the 600VDC to run the trains too? I remember seeing pictures of larger 3 phase mercury arc rectifiers used to power subway trains, I know I've heard 600V mentioned as the voltage many of them use.
 

Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2020, 07:06:37 pm »
Hmm once upon a time we needed something similar for an ancient wheel lathe we had been gifted for the steam loco repair shops of the railway preservation society of northern Ireland :) This is quite a large lathe capable of swinging a pair 6ft6" drivers on axle.  Well if you think about it 600VDC is quite close to 415VAC a very common three phase supply voltage here in the UK, so a nice set of silicon rectifiers (6) did the job magnificently :)

Now Simon your might say too primitive but TBH you did not say what your application was.

https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/


Isn't that how they get the 600VDC to run the trains too? I remember seeing pictures of larger 3 phase mercury arc rectifiers used to power subway trains, I know I've heard 600V mentioned as the voltage many of them use.

Now there's a thought for the OP, ROTARY CONVERTER  :-DD
 

Offline SimonTopic starter

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2020, 07:17:11 pm »
Rotary converter?
 

Offline ogden

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2020, 07:28:40 pm »
https://us.tdk-lambda.com/hp/product_html/genplus10.htm

Where do we got one?
You may want to start with checking "contact us" page

TDK-Lambda UK
Ilfracombe
Devon, England
Tel: 44-1271 856666
Fax: 44-1271 864894
Email:powersolutions@emea.tdk-lambda.com
Web: uk.tdk-lambda.com
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 07:35:25 pm »
This German company FuG also supplies this kind of power

https://www.fug-elektronik.de/

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Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2020, 08:11:28 pm »
Rotary converter?
Yup like this one, maybe a little large! Sorry for drifting off......
But what is the application ?
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2020, 08:30:00 pm »
Sorenson ? Kikusui , Lambda TDk , Agilent / Keysight . Ebay ? (used)
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2020, 01:02:08 am »
I guess the real question is what input voltage is available and whether or not isolation is required.
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Offline james_s

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2020, 02:53:01 am »
Rotary converter?

They were used to convert AC to DC, DC to AC, between different AC frequencies and to step up DC voltages, for example tube electronics that ran on 28VDC aircraft electrical systems prior to solid state electronics that were up to the task. Essentially a combination of motor and generator on a single armature they were made in sizes from maybe a few tens of watts up to many tens of kilowatts.
 

Offline Berni

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2020, 06:25:42 am »
Rotary converter?

Its a motor turning a generator.

Motor and generator can be selected for the kind of power that is needed. Say 3 phase 400V 50Hz motor running a 48V DC generator. Or single phase 60Hz AC motor turning a 3 phase 400Hz AC generator. In some cases the same motor can be used as a generator simultaneously.

With the advancement of power electronics they have been mostly replaced with switchmode power supplies/inverters. They are still commonly used tho for making 3 phase power out of single phase power(In the US its difficult to get 3 phase power in residential areas so people with machine shops use them to run 3 phase machines).

But yes your specifications for this 10kW power supply are a bit sparce.
Does it need to be variable from 0 to 600V?
Does it need to be regulated?
What is the input power to it?
Does it need to be isolated from mains?
Does it require any current limiting functionality?


The huge rack mount PSUs that users are suggesting above indeed cover all of these questions above. But as people have said they these kW cost kilodollars. Don't be surprised to find most of them costing over $5000. But if you have the money you just need to call up TDK or Keysight and soon after have a huge heavy box show up at your front door.

If you don't have the kilodollars then its ebay (Will still cost easily 500 bucks tho) or drop some of the above requirements to let you use a more crude PSU solution (Like rectified mains)
 

Offline duak

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2020, 07:56:51 pm »
Over the past 20 years, CNC machine tools and automation systems using multiple Variable Frequency drives  have been going towards a common DC link, likely to increase efficiency by recovering regenerated energy. ie. no braking resistors.  Here's an example of a commercial product: https://www.beckhoff.com/AX8640/  I'm not recomending this particular one; it was just first one on a google search.  Note that the DC-link is not isolated from the mains so a transformer could be needed.
 

Offline SimonTopic starter

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2020, 08:21:34 am »
Whats the best course of action to find out any regulations that apply to use of a supply that produces up to 1'500V ? I would have this locked off at less than 1'000V.
 

Offline Berni

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2020, 09:17:07 am »
Whats the best course of action to find out any regulations that apply to use of a supply that produces up to 1'500V ? I would have this locked off at less than 1'000V.

Again too sparce.

If you are making 1500V to run a electron gun in a CRT of a TV, nobody is going to care. As long as the user can't just grab the 1500V its fine.

If you are sticking a 1500V battery pack into an electric vehicle there is gonna be some paperwork involved before you even start making that battery pack.

When it comes to test equipment it is generally assumed that the user knows what he is doing. So the only darwin award deterrents are generally scary warning stickers and easily removable plastic cover here or there. The user has to hook it up somehow after all. And this is not only high voltage PSUs, there are other things that can produce high voltages such as SMUs, Calibrators, Megaohm meters. Also RF test equipment can be used to seriously jam important radio bands and get you a visit from the local authorities. The user is simply expected to know what he is doing and do it at his own risk.

But in general someone is going to be responsible if something bad happens. So if you build a production test system that is going to be operated by idiot workers that have no idea what they are doing, then you better make it safe. The company is going to be in some seriously hot water if someone kills themselves grabbing a test jig at 1500V. So even if the regulations don't say anything does not mean that you should ignore having safety interlocks on things that can kill people.

Regulations are mostly only there to make it harder for idiots to kill themselves with the common dangers. It does not replace common sense
 

Offline SimonTopic starter

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2020, 10:11:48 am »
Yes it is more about making sure we are set up safely for the testers and the working environment in general. We will be building battery powered systems (no battery included) up to 600V currently but up to 1kV is I think prudent to cater for. So rather than purchase a power supply that can do exactly 600V and then have that be a wasted investment when we need 650V I am thinking we should be able to supply up to 1kV but the supply range I am looking at now is 800V or 1.5kV.

I don't know what testing procedures are required yet. I assume someone deemed to be competent will work in a restricted area testing systems after they have been inspected for build quality by someone that did not build it so that there is a second set of eyes on the equipment before it's powered. Once built there should probably not be any access to live parts.

If we get a 1.5kV supply it would be locked at under 1kV and probably to no more than 50V over the required working voltage.
 

Offline Berni

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2020, 10:29:50 am »
Well for that it might make more sense to buy multiple PSUs and reconfigure them in series or parallel as needed.

The 10kW 1.5kV supply might be so limited in terms of current capability that it might only give 4kW max at 300V. But if that is a two 750V supplies in series you can reconfigure them to parallel so the 300V is a more significant percentage of the 750V rated voltage and you get double the current due to being parallel. Just make sure the PSU is allowed to float up to such a high voltage.

But when it comes to testing like this, it is sometimes easier to have a battery bank capable of the required power then charge it with a little PSU. Just make sure there is plenty fusing and protection in place for if/when things go wrong.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2020, 11:05:51 am »
As I have mentioned before, you might want to contact the German manufacturer FUG.
https://www.fug-elektronik.de/netzgeraete/professional-series/

They make custom order power supplies in high quality for reasonable prices.
Their professional series covers up to 70kW at 125V to 2000V
I have used their power supplies for clients in the automotive field and it has always worked out perfectly.
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Offline filssavi

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2020, 12:04:39 pm »
Well for that it might make more sense to buy multiple PSUs and reconfigure them in series or parallel as needed.

The 10kW 1.5kV supply might be so limited in terms of current capability that it might only give 4kW max at 300V. But if that is a two 750V supplies in series you can reconfigure them to parallel so the 300V is a more significant percentage of the 750V rated voltage and you get double the current due to being parallel. Just make sure the PSU is allowed to float up to such a high voltage.

But when it comes to testing like this, it is sometimes easier to have a battery bank capable of the required power then charge it with a little PSU. Just make sure there is plenty fusing and protection in place for if/when things go wrong.

I would advise against putting HV power supplies in series if they are not expressly built to support that configuration as it might cause problems with common mode and such.

Also virtually all the High voltage/power PSUs are power limited, thus at low voltage you get much more current (you might have a 6A limit at the max voltage and 60 at low voltages)
 

Offline SimonTopic starter

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Re: where does one buy a 600VDC 10kW power supply?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2020, 12:13:33 pm »
Yes most high power PSU's (over 2kW) don't do what is commonly called "powerflex" where between a minimum voltage and max they can deliver a near constant power with the amps going up as the volts go down. The ITEC is the first i see to offer this in units so powerful. The TDK-Lambda for example is a constant 17A no matter the voltage.

Yes putting supplies in series can be a problem. Parallel operation would be preferable as it makes things easier.
 


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