Author Topic: Windows 10 on Raspberry Pi! (Read 12021 times)

ludzinc · « **on:** February 02, 2015, 10:28:35 am »

http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/raspberrypi2support

Free for makers. Learning 'nix has been a barrier for me on the Raspberry Pi, so I'm very interested in where this goes!

Wh1sper · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2015, 10:31:01 am »

Interesting, they made their Windows to a giveaway :-)

Mechatrommer · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2015, 10:49:09 am »

probably competition with free android has been very stink on m$ side. i was a longtime nokia hp user, but when nokia smartphone choosed win8 as there os, bye bye nokia. mainly because android's reputation around here.

tszaboo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2015, 12:33:20 pm »

This is excellent news. I'm even considering to buy a model 2 now. But maybe I'll just wait until the windows 10 is out.

XynxNet · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2015, 12:44:25 pm »

Well, wy would you want to run Windows10 an an Raspberry Pi?
It's still an ARM platform, so your programms of the x86 world don't work.
And Windows 10 ist still a binary blob, so you can't really customize it.

Wh1sper · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2015, 12:54:27 pm »

He forgot the

prasimix · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2015, 02:20:34 pm »

It's always good to see a CBS like this: "Windows 10 is the first step to an era of more personal computing. This vision framed our work on Windows 10, where we are moving Windows to a world that is more mobile, natural and grounded in trust."

Alex30 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2015, 02:49:42 pm »

No shit, I wouldn't be surprised if a big contender picked up where Microsoft left off with their abysmal windows 10. All it takes is a company more intouch with todays needs, a bit like the way an open os like android has advanced. If you hold microsoft shares I would sell now.

Howardlong · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2015, 02:58:57 pm »

Not sure what "Windows 10 on RPi" really means. MS crippled Windows RT, I can only imaging this will be crippled too, but to what degree who knows?

I bought a Surface on the first day they were released, on that very day I tried to write a console Hello World. Nope. Ain't gonna work. No console apps for you. No desktop apps for you. WinRT then slowly died.

You can bet your bottom dollar the only dev environment will be Windows with Visual Studio. I don't have a problem with that myself, but I am sure the *nixistas and fanbois will stick their noses up at it.

Kalvin · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2015, 03:02:57 pm »

What virus scanner is recommended for the Windows 10 running on Raspberry pi 2? And how many cores are dedicated for running the virus software and how much is left for the actual application?

Stonent · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2015, 11:41:53 pm »

Quote from: Kalvin on February 02, 2015, 03:02:57 pm

What virus scanner is recommended for the Windows 10 running on Raspberry pi 2? And how many cores are dedicated for running the virus software and how much is left for the actual application?

I doubt there would be much point however in Windows 8, 8.1 the virus scanner is built in to the OS as Windows Defender.
(basically security essentials)

If for some reason they don't I'm sure someone would port the open source Clam AV to it.

Howardlong · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2015, 12:20:29 am »

Quote from: wilfred on February 02, 2015, 11:37:32 pm

Quote from: Howardlong on February 02, 2015, 02:58:57 pm
Not sure what "Windows 10 on RPi" really means. MS crippled Windows RT, I can only imaging this will be crippled too, but to what degree who knows?

I bought a Surface on the first day they were released, on that very day I tried to write a console Hello World. Nope. Ain't gonna work. No console apps for you. No desktop apps for you. WinRT then slowly died.

You can bet your bottom dollar the only dev environment will be Windows with Visual Studio. I don't have a problem with that myself, but I am sure the *nixistas and fanbois will stick their noses up at it.

I am puzzled as to what the precise difference in the "*nixistas and fanbois will stick their noses up", and you looking down your nose at Windows, is.
Perhaps level heads should prevail.

It wasn't meant to be anything more than a comment about the innevitable shock and disbelief from the non-Windows folks. That was all it was, and it did come out rather clumsily. It was not intended to be a put down, or derogatory comment, and I apologise if you took it that way. The reality is, a Mac or Linux person is unlikely to want to spend their time developing diddly squat for Windows especially if they have to use Windows (full fat) and Visual Studio to do it. I'd say that's probably fair, and that was what I was trying to say, albeit not very well.

I have to say, I, and I am sure many others, did not see Windows coming to RPi, and to be honest with the cock up MS did with WinRT my hopes are not high.

dferyance · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2015, 02:37:39 am »

I did some playing around with Windows on the Galileo (Intel's x86 board to compete with ARM on the low-end). While the kernel was based on Windows 8 it was a pretty crippled version. Many Windows API calls simply didn't work. Now the Raspberry PI has video out while the Galileo doesn't so maybe this will be a more complete version. The nice thing about Windows was being able to use Visual Studio to design software for it and use the remote debugger.

The big problem for the Galileo and we shall see if it is the same for the PI is a lack of DDK. Linux has been much superior for embedded work due to the inclusion of the source code and the ability to write drivers. I can see Windows being nice for using the board as a PC or media center but that is pretty limited use and Atom PCs would be better. If anything Windows on Galileo should have more uses due to being x86 while there aren't a lot of programs for Windows on ARM.

Considering my past experience, I don't have high hopes for this.

chickenHeadKnob · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2015, 04:40:52 am »

About 10 years ago . or maybe more, I read a Bill Gates interview where he was asked the "what is microsoft's long term strategy" question, and he was quite candid in admitting that they wanted to transition to a full rent-seeking revenue model. In other words he said he wanted Microsoft to become thought of as a Utility company like the telephone companies, quietly taxing every-one on a monthly basis. They have been slow to implement this but it looks like windows 10 on x86 will be offered as cloud software service. I think they recognize that there will be push-back so have been stealthily using lube on this one.
http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/564480/microsoft-windows-10-subscription-strategy-somewhat-risky-telsyte/

If windows 10 is offered free on the raspi it can be only be as a place holder to prevent linux in taking mind-share in the education market or as a trojan horse for future subscription revenue, and those reasons aren't mutually exclusive.

Howardlong · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2015, 08:13:01 am »

Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on February 03, 2015, 04:40:52 am

About 10 years ago . or maybe more, I read a Bill Gates interview where he was asked the "what is microsoft's long term strategy" question, and he was quite candid in admitting that they wanted to transition to a full rent-seeking revenue model. In other words he said he wanted Microsoft to become thought of as a Utility company like the telephone companies, quietly taxing every-one on a monthly basis. They have been slow to implement this but it looks like windows 10 on x86 will be offered as cloud software service. I think they recognize that there will be push-back so have been stealthily using lube on this one.
http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/564480/microsoft-windows-10-subscription-strategy-somewhat-risky-telsyte/

If windows 10 is offered free on the raspi it can be only be as a place holder to prevent linux in taking mind-share in the education market or as a trojan horse for future subscription revenue, and those reasons aren't mutually exclusive.

Effectively it's already a subscription service, if you don't plan on refreshing your entire estate every five years or so you'll start to lose out on security updates. I am sure Microsoft were rubbing there hands with glee when Patch Tuesday came about all those years ago.

The problem with the current model is that with that refresh comes a whole load of other worthless tweaks and chrome that nobody wants in an effort to differentiate one version from the last to encourage purchase. I'd hope with a subscription model maybe they'd control themselves better, but I'm not holding my breath!

MrAl · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2015, 01:02:08 pm »

Hi,

I am sure everyone read this the same way i did, but ill post it here anyway.

The way i read this was:

"Windows 10 is the first step to an era of more personal computing take over by M$".

What bothers me is that when i first purchased and installed Windows 3.1 (way back when) i actually WANTED to install and use it, even though installing some drivers was a pain in the neck. I didnt mind that much, and once you got them working that was it, they worked, and you did what you needed to do on the computer.

Now that has changed to where i HAVE to purchase and install Windows, about once every 5 years in order to keep up with modern technology. And the cost has gone up considerably, while the functionality improved only moderately, at least the functionality that works right that is.

Instead of a slow, steady improvement, i see a waxing and waning back and forth between versions. For example, in Windows 95 the message boxes auto wrapped text, then in 98 it allowed the programmer to decide how and when to wrap text, then in Windows 7 it's back to auto wrap that made various programmers very angry because their user base that upgrade to Win 7 get very very strange looking message boxes. When asked about it, M$ replies simply state that they are not bound to do it any way in particular because they did not specify that particular parameter (text wrap or not). That's just dumb. It's so easy for them to make it BOTH ways for the programmer, yet they decide to do it one way or the other and vary this decision over several versions.
I also see remnants of older versions coming back into the software of Win 7, that were mistakes that have been resolved in previous versions. That's just plain nuts. If they knew it was a problem in Windows 95 and it was fixed in Win 98, why does it appear again in Win 7 ? Shows bad project management.

The only saving grace to all of this is that it seems that Bill is developing a conscious now and trying to help with world causes. I hope it is sincere, as he is pushing for a single world government now due to planetary problems that are common to all in every country on Earth.

So since hearing of this news of Win 10, all i can say is, "God help us all" :-)

nctnico · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2015, 01:10:34 pm »

Quote from: Alex30 on February 02, 2015, 02:49:42 pm

No shit, I wouldn't be surprised if a big contender picked up where Microsoft left off with their abysmal windows 10. All it takes is a company more intouch with todays needs

Apple?

Alex30 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2015, 02:12:07 pm »

Quote from: nctnico on February 03, 2015, 01:10:34 pm

Quote from: Alex30 on February 02, 2015, 02:49:42 pm
No shit, I wouldn't be surprised if a big contender picked up where Microsoft left off with their abysmal windows 10. All it takes is a company more intouch with todays needs
Apple?

lol. The only reason apple is doing so well is because they are currently in fashion. But fashion changes.

I think that given some time, there will be more open source operating systems that become popular and are more well supported by corporate developers. Might be several years off though. I think the future of general applications is open source too, given that there are already lots of great open source alternatives to shareware applications. Gone will be the day companies have to pay extortionate maintenance fees just for microsoft office and windows or customers paying for subscriptions for basic tools and antivirus.

Rigby · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2015, 02:45:48 pm »

I'm semi-excited about this. As a long-time Windows developer there is no amount of "open" or "libre" bullshit that will make me ditch all of my Windows experience for an OS whose community can't seem to pull their heads out of their asses.

This is an informed opinion, by the way, I've worked MANY years as 50/50 sysadmin/developer, developed for Windows and Linux, HP-UX, Solaris, and AIX, delved DEEP into sysadmin for all over the past 20 years, and I can tell anyone that wants to discuss this just how much better Windows is. 15 years ago I would have been correct to declare any Unix as better, and I did at every opportunity, but that simply isn't true anymore.

I welcome Windows to the RPi2. I just hope there's some sort of useful HDMI output.

Stonent · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2015, 05:31:51 pm »

Quote from: Rigby on February 03, 2015, 02:45:48 pm

I'm semi-excited about this. As a long-time Windows developer there is no amount of "open" or "libre" bullshit that will make me ditch all of my Windows experience for an OS whose community can't seem to pull their heads out of their asses.

This is an informed opinion, by the way, I've worked MANY years as 50/50 sysadmin/developer, developed for Windows and Linux, HP-UX, Solaris, and AIX, delved DEEP into sysadmin for all over the past 20 years, and I can tell anyone that wants to discuss this just how much better Windows is. 15 years ago I would have been correct to declare any Unix as better, and I did at every opportunity, but that simply isn't true anymore.

I welcome Windows to the RPi2. I just hope there's some sort of useful HDMI output.

I guess you could say I've been thrust into development recently.

Last semester I learned: HTML5, CSS, SQL, some JavaScript, and C#. I taught myself XAML (it wasn't covered in my C# course) during that time as well. During the Christmas break at school. I self-taught myself PowerShell.

I used to gripe and complain about .NET related stuff before I actually used it. Mainly because of the difficulty of fixing some of the severely messed up .NET framework related problems.

But actually using it with C# and PowerShell is great. That means that in general if I'm writing something in PowerShell I won't get to a point where there's something I can't do where I have to rewrite everything in C#. It also means that if I need to do something in PowerShell that I can't find from googling it, I will google the same thing in C#. Then just see what .NET methods are being used and access them from PowerShell.

Mechatrommer · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2015, 05:42:10 pm »

Quote from: Stonent on February 04, 2015, 05:31:51 pm

learned: HTML5, CSS, SQL, JavaScript, C#, XAML, PowerShell, .NET

useless! go learn data structure and algorithm!

Howardlong · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2015, 06:06:23 pm »

Back in my life in IT, I always promoted the KISS principle. What we'd see sometimes was dev guys coming in and using all sorts of flavour of the month technologies mixed up into a primeval soup. The problem is that at some point this will need to be supported when it's chucked over the fence into production or that individual's not around.

About five years ago I had a guy working for me as a DBA, a year or two out of college, desperate to automate some of our new maintenance tasks with Powershell. While I didn't stop him immediately, I let him do a couple of tasks and then asked him what the benefit was over using all the maintenance tools already integrated into the database product itself, because I could see it was going to be a nightmare to support in the future. Well there wasn't one, it became apparent that he just wanted Powershell on his CV.

While I certainly don't discount using all these technologies, outside of the student bedroom in the real world you need to look at the bigger picture. I have been known to write a bit of C# for very specific functions that, for example, simply won't perform well in TSQL: typically it'll be procedural number crunching or non standard complex data conversions. It is very rare, and when I do I make sure that the whole development and unit test environment is documented and put into a VM so if there's a problem it can be taken apart, with all the right versions of the toolchains there. If you've ever turned up at a customer site to find that the last guy in from your place hacked a few Word macros ten years earlier to make something work, and failed to document it, you'll see exactly where I'm coming from. Still, it meant I got "Word macros" on my CV as a result!

DIPLover · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2015, 12:52:13 am »

Isn't the whole point of Windows that you can run your old shit on it?

Isn't it why every version of Windows for non-intel has died more or less quickly?

I agree Visual Studio is great and so is C#/.NET, but they will need to build a very sweet package indeed to entice people to ditch their "free/open/not going away anytime soon" tools. When I start a hobby project, I need to know that my tools will remain available for as long as I want to play with them.

That's the thing with open source, nobody can take your tools away from you. That's empowering in itself, even if you never look at a single line of code in your life.

But MORE options is always good. Come on Microsoft, give it your best shot!

Disclaimer : I am OS-agnostic and use OSX, Linux and Windows daily.

Richard Crowley · « **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2015, 01:10:04 am »

I agree with DIPLover. The whole point of Windows(whatever version) is being able to run layered apps on it.
Windows for non-x86 architecture has never gone anywhere precisely for this reason.

If people are enamored by Microsoft Visual Studio (which is remarkably powerful, flexible, and free) there have been products like "NETduino" which uses MS Visual Studio as the development platform and .NET Micro Framework 4.2 as the OS.

http://www.netduino.com/hardware/

Rigby · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2015, 02:10:42 am »

I would like to see the Micro Framework for something like the Spark Photon. I'll have to live with C I guess. Sigh.


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Author Topic: Windows 10 on Raspberry Pi! (Read 12021 times)

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