X-ray generation and detection

[ali_asadzadeh]

Hi,
Since I was a kid I was wondering how they generate and capture x-ray for imaging human body? I have seen some projects on youtube, but I want to know is it possible to use normal image sensors with some modification to build a DIY camera for ourselves, so we could see inside things! like seeing under the balls of a BGA or human tissue! any Idea about generating and capturing x-ray cheaply, would be highly welcomed since we have these little powerful cortex Devices, I think it's time to make something cool

[Gyro]

An extremely dangerous thing to attempt... Anything to do with imaging (or exposure of) human flesh! 

[ali_asadzadeh]

All of us knows it's very dangerous! Do you know something and are you willing to share?

[NiHaoMike]

Surplus dental Xray - fairly cheap and actually designed to be "safe" for use on humans.

[Gyro]

All of us knows it's very dangerous! Do you know something and are you willing to share?

Not really, there are various things on the web, using HV triodes in cold cathode mode etc. but nothing that would be acceptable in the context of the human body (even in the vicinity without shielding). Medical X-Rays use 'hard X-rays' (much higher tube voltage, 100kV plus?) and specifically filter out all the damaging and useless 'soft' X-rays. Unfortunately I think the home-brew solutions only produce soft x-rays, tube supply in the 20kV range.

As NiHaoMike points out, there are surplus dental x-rays which probably have an 'acceptable' dosage with one short exposure every few months but that's unlikely to be very satisfying for you.

There are knowledgeable folks around here who own X-ray machines and will probably provide advice on PCB, BGA etc. but I think you're going to have to reign in you ambitions on organic things.

[Neukyhm]

I built one using a PC case. Generating x-rays is easy, I just used a 2n3055 driver, a flyback, the 2C2S vacuum tube and a x-ray cassette.

[ahbushnell]

Hi,
Since I was a kid I was wondering how they generate and capture x-ray for imaging human body? I have seen some projects on youtube, but I want to know is it possible to use normal image sensors with some modification to build a DIY camera for ourselves, so we could see inside things! like seeing under the balls of a BGA or human tissue! any Idea about generating and capturing x-ray cheaply, would be highly welcomed since we have these little powerful cortex Devices, I think it's time to make something cool

Very dangerous.  In California X-ray sources are licensed. 

I worked with 60 kV electron guns and those things cranked out the xrays.  It took a lot of work to shield. 

[MosherIV]

  All of us knows it's very dangerous! Do you know something and are you willing to share?

Think about it from a practicle measurable point of view.

Do you have anything that can reliably detect X-rays?
Do you know what level of exposure is safe?
Can your measurement equipement measure to the accuracy and resolution required to determine safe exposure?

You need to be able to detect/measure X-rays before you look into generating them.

Doing it any other way means you may expose yourself without knowing it.
The effects of radiation may not be immediate, it may take decades before the damaging effects start to show

Do you really want to take the risk?

[ali_asadzadeh]

Thanks for sharing!
Neukyhm would you please share more info with us,my bigger problem is measuring the x-ray not generating it for now, do you know some way of detecting and capturing x-ray images say 1 frame per second? how did you got the images?

[Neukyhm]

Thanks for sharing!
Neukyhm would you please share more info with us,my bigger problem is measuring the x-ray not generating it for now, do you know some way of detecting and capturing x-ray images say 1 frame per second? how did you got the images?

The easiest way to detect x-rays is using a Geiger counter, I got one for ~100€ from GQ Electronics. Another way to detect is covering your phone's camera and point it to a source. In photo/video mode, the screen should show some pixels turning on due to the x-rays activating the camera's pixels.

In order to take pictures like the one I uploaded, you need a camera (like the Nikon D300 I'm using) configured for long exposure, and a x-ray cassette, I'm using a Fujifilm Speed Green and this support I designed for it

The x-rays will make the cassette light, you just take a picture to it for a few seconds.

[Distelzombie]

I always found many people are overly anxious about nuclear radiation. So I guess that is my part here.
I am collecting radioactive stuff. Uranium Ores, Radium paste for clock hands, tritium vials, uranium glazed pottery, americium sources for ionisation chambers (e.g. smoke detectors), I guess also radon gas, but that is just coincidence, and other stuff


You are able by just calculating power input, output and the power lost to nearly get the amount of x-ray that tube would emit. Probably even WAY too much since it is also emitting a ton of IR.
So it is "safe" even without a geiger counter.

[james_s]

By far the cheapest, safest and most readily available good quality xray source are surplus dental heads. Given a larger than usual tube to subject distance you can get very good quality images of objects much larger than the teeth they are designed to image. Typically these run in the 60-70kVp range and have an aluminum filter to block the lower energy emission that only contributes to absorbed dose without generating any useful image. The big advantage of a dental head is it is a sealed unit containing the tube and HV transformer immersed in insulating oil or SF6 with the whole assembly well shielded.

For detection the cheapest and simplest method is to use film in a cassette. Xray cassettes consist of a light-proof case with phosphor screens that convert xrays to visible light greatly reducing the exposure required vs bare film. It's possible to point a camera at one of these screens to get a poor man's digital xray sensor however the sensitivity is quite low so I would certainly not use it to image anything living.

Be *very* careful if you attempt to play around with this stuff, xrays are seriously dangerous. They are high energy photons that pass through many objects, they can scatter, they affect your body like very powerful UV except instead of sun burning the surface they pass all the way through, you really don't want to sunburn your internal organs.

[Distelzombie]

"be very careful" simply boils down to: Know the µSv, lower exposure time of yourself, stay well inside generally advised maximum exposure levels.
You can make X-ray pictures of yourself. There is nothing against it! Just don't do it stupidly.

[james_s]

Careful making blanket statements like that, I don't think it's legal to xray anyone, including yourself in many parts of the world. Even if you know what you're doing, I highly suggest only experimenting with non-living subjects and be aware of any local laws and regulations. Radiation is serious stuff, few words invoke more irrational fear in people and there is the potential for real danger. You should absolutely not underestimate that, you really don't want there to be any chance whatsoever that you have exposed someone to radiation with your experiments.

[Neukyhm]

Careful making blanket statements like that, I don't think it's legal to xray anyone, including yourself in many parts of the world. Even if you know what you're doing, I highly suggest only experimenting with non-living subjects and be aware of any local laws and regulations. Radiation is serious stuff, few words invoke more irrational fear in people and there is the potential for real danger. You should absolutely not underestimate that, you really don't want there to be any chance whatsoever that you have exposed someone to radiation with your experiments.

I agree with that. When I was designing my machine, I made it remote controlled of course. I connect it to a PC, then I leave the room and activate it via remote desktop. Doing that and also using a geiger counter, you are safe.

[ebastler]

[...] like seeing under the balls of a BGA or human tissue! any Idea about generating and capturing x-ray cheaply, would be highly welcomed since we have these little powerful cortex Devices, I think it's time to make something cool

Your approach to researching and designing X-ray equipment is to ask (pardon me) naive questions on an electronics forum.
Conclusion: You should probably not mess with X-ray.

And what do the Cortex processors have to do with this?? Or were you referring to your own, built-in cortex? Yes, that can be a powerful device too, but I don't recommend irradiating it with a homebrew X-ray machine... 

[SiliconWizard]

An extremely dangerous thing to attempt... Anything to do with imaging (or exposure of) human flesh! 

It is, and as someone else mentioned, it's also regulated in most countries in the world. You can't have an x-ray equipement without a proper license and a (usually) yearly control.

Doing that without a valid license may even get you penal sanctions in some countries.

[ebastler]

By the way:

___________________________________
You can order parts from www.ASiDesigner.com
we are a wire-based company

No, I can't. There is a significant language barrier. 

[Distelzombie]

I knew "Just don't do it stupidly." wouldn't be enough for "some people".
I don't care about legal systems outside of mine. You should know if it is legal. That is not my responsibility. I don't have to make y'all aware of that.
I am here to lower the fear of nuclear radiation to a more rational state, and you come again with:
"Radiation is serious stuff, few words invoke more irrational fear in people and there is the potential for real danger. You should absolutely not underestimate that..." How am I invoking irrational fears?!

[BFX]

Are you guys really experienced in this stuff? I think its more dangerous like high voltage power!
I'm working for siemens x-ray medical nowadays siemens healthineers.
There is very very careful about radiation. And I seen some accidents!       

[Distelzombie]

More or equally dangerous than instant-death-probability? Seriously?! That is just extremely over the top. 
You can stand directly infront of a medical x-ray machine for, it's a guess, month before you would die from it. (Directly) Try that with high-voltage.
Not even the elephants-foot is as dangerous as touching high voltage wires in a way that the current goes through your heart. This is just ridiculous.

A corporation or concern is always very careful because they have to comply to what their insurer says. They don't want to pay millions per worker because they made the mistake to not fully educate them about the risks of radiation: If you fear it extremely, you'll be extremely careful. They don't care if this level of fear is rational or not, if it safes them from lawsuits. I guess.

[MosherIV]

Are you guys really experienced in this stuff?

Me, personally - nope, not much. I worked for a company servicing industrial X-ray machines.
I was not allowd into the service area let alone the x-ray test chamber when the red testing light was on, despite the chamber room being lead lined.
The technician doing the work had annual check ups.

Hence, I suggect a quantative (measurable) aporoach.
Just becuase some geiger counters can detect X-rays, not all geiger counters detect X-rays. Make sure the one you get can and is calibrated.
Are they calibrated for X-rays?
What is the safe level of exposure?
Do people realise X-rays can go through walls ?

(Fyi The industrial X-ray machines were for X-raying metal pipes. I do not know what the procedure was for X-raying  pipes but I would not want to be anywhere near it !)

You can stand directly infront of a medical x-ray machine for, it's a guess, month before you would die from it

You can suffer substantial damage to you DNA without any symptons.
The first you will know about it is either deformed children or cancer.

[Gyro]

Yes, there are things much worse than instant death.

[ebastler]

You can stand directly infront of a medical x-ray machine for, it's a guess, month before you would die from it.

Sure. Just make sure that you don't switch it on for too long.
And drink plenty of water, eat your vitamins, and take a nap every now and then.

 

Seriously though: A typical medical X-ray exam gives you a radiation exposure of a few mSv.  1000 of those will cause most severe radiation disease, with 100% mortality within 14 days. Even one tenth of that dose will already cause 10% mortality over a 30 day period. So if you really meant operating a medical X-ray continuously and standing in the beam path, your estimate is ridiculously far off.

[james_s]

A geiger counter is not the most effective way to measure xray exposure. It will count xray photons but it tells you nothing about the energy level which has a significant effect on dosage. What you really want is an ion chamber survey meter. Still the best way to experiment with this sort of thing is to avoid any exposure at all. Use the tube in the original shielded head, mount it pointing down toward the subject, on the ground floor of a building so nobody will be below it. Don't ever attempt to image anything living, radiation exposure can be cumulative and there is no level considered absolutely safe.