EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: BravoV on April 03, 2019, 12:44:55 pm
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Old forum members probably already knew this from previous old thread -> Y.A.R.A. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yara-yet-another-rotten-alkalines-sigh/) (Yet Another Rotten Alkaline) >:(
Yesterday, took out my Fluke 87V, turned on, and the screen showed its low on battery, while in my hand, I turned if off, and then did shake the DMM abit, turned it on again, the low battery indicator was gone, so the battery was still providing enough voltage.
Intuitively I thought must be loose connection on the 9V terminal, opened the Fluke 87V back cover, and when I try to detach the 9V terminal with sort of peeling movement, the whole negative terminal was sort of torn and broke into pieces, and revealed its heavily corroded. :wtf: :rant:
As you can see, I have habit of marking the battery's installation date using marker, its just < 3 years and the factory expiration date still on Feb 2021.
The meter all this time was stored in stable room temperature, and never used outdoor in harsh environment. Yes, the battery is genuine and imo from quite reputable brand.
Attached photo below, see for your self.
Always thought and read a lot on such statements ... "Oh ... 9V alkaline cell don't leak like ordinary cylinder alkaline cells do" ...
... that claim is WRONG ! >:(
The leak apparently was through one of terminal, it sorts of oozing/venting out corrosive gas and corroded the negative terminal, as the photo, the other terminal (+) is still in very good shape.
Moral story, check ... check ... and diligently check especially your expensive T&M gears that are powered using alkaline cell, even its non cylinder type like this 9V box type.
Hope this helps, at least to motivate you to check your gears ... NOW !
EDIT : Update at -> Post #13 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/yara2-9v-alkaline-cells-do-leak-check-your-expensive-gears-often-guys/msg2321574/#msg2321574) photos of the battery's internal.
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Thanks, just checked my Fluke 175, all fine. Battery placed in dec 2017, Panasonic alkaline, gold coloured housing.
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I routinely find unused, name-brand alkaline cells (Energizer, Duracell) leaking in their packaging, years before the alleged expiration date. I would suspect high ambient temperature and humidity, but I've seen the same phenomenon even in climate-controlled environments. I now prefer to buy batteries immediately before use rather than stockpiling, and proactively remove them from infrequently-used equipment.
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I stopped buying alkaline batteries entirely, I use NiMH in everything. Haven't had one leak yet.
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Always thought and read a lot on such statements ... "Oh ... 9V alkaline cell don't leak as the way those stacked cells were build such ways that it wont leak like ordinary cylinder alkaline cells do" ...
... that claim is WRONG ! >:(
9V alkalines come in at least two variations - stacked 'rectangular' cells, and an array of very small cylindrical cells. I can't say I've seen the former leak, but I'm sure they can.
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Strangely I have nearly no problems with leaking alkaline batteries despite leaving them in devices for several years. And I use all kinds of brands and no-names. For devices regularly used I've moved to low self-discharge NiMHs and can confirm james_s' experience.
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Store your batteries in the fridge (at around 10degC) and your stockpile will last forever.
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Thank goodness it was only the battery snap, which can be easily replaced.
The liquid leeching from batteries completely sodomizes a PCBA.
Thanks for the tip... I will also start writing the installation date on the battery.
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Store your batteries in the fridge (at around 10degC) and your stockpile will last forever.
Your fridge is too warm, it should be around 4'C. :scared:
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4°C at the bottom and 10°C at the top. ;)
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4°C at the bottom and 10°C at the top. ;)
Contrariwise ::) :P
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4degC is my ambient temperature.. Too low for the batteries, I rather store them in my fridge at 10degC.. >:D
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Store your batteries in the fridge (at around 10degC) and your stockpile will last forever.
But your marriage won't...
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Cut & opened the battery, enjoy the scenes of the carcass. >:D
From the internal side, looks like the cause of the corrosion was the cells were slowly venting minuscule corrosive gas isn't it ?
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Interesting that the contact snaps on the battery are still in much better condition than the ones on the Fluke. >:D
Not that it makes a difference overall of course (apart from the need to replace the battery lead).
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Interesting that the contact snaps on the battery are still in much better condition than the ones on the Fluke. >:D
Not that helps overall of course.
Yep, looks like the battery's contact material is more superior, thicker nickel plating maybe ?
Also the metal strips used to connect the cells, almost looks like new, none corroded, only few minor spots of ordinary rust. :-//
Btw, what is that greenish substance at battery terminal ? Is it copper or nickel ?
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I assume that it's come from the copper wire termination inside the battery lead snap.
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Now I have another home work which is to replace the rotten Fluke 87V's battery snaps. >:(
Replacement ordered and arrived, a 9V long life low drain Lithium Thionyl Chloride battery, not sure about the quality of this Camelion brand, as Energizer 9V Lithium is not available here.
Shelf life until Oct 2026. Time will tell I guess.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what-did-you-buy-today-post-your-latest-purchase!/?action=dlattach;attach=696897;image)
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I never even considered 9v batteries... but makes sense, same chemistry just different form factor. Should check misc tools that arn't used often too like stud finder etc. Check smoke detectors too. I know what I'm doing when I get home. :P
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BravoV, I am sorry to see that. People rave about Panasonics but I guess your example is against the popular belief.
In another thread I mention I bought several Lithium for the expensive meters but rely on regular alkalines for the 9V ones, believing they don't leak as much as the isolated AA/AAA cells. Oh well, that is another belief that goes out of the window, I guess.
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Interesting that the contact snaps on the battery are still in much better condition than the ones on the Fluke. >:D
Maybe salvage the contacts pad from the battery and use it as the replacement connector for the multimeter? ;)
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Interesting that the contact snaps on the battery are still in much better condition than the ones on the Fluke. >:D
Maybe salvage the contacts pad from the battery and use it as the replacement connector for the multimeter? ;)
I've done that many times when I was a kid... True recycling!
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The bad 9V batteries have a stack of cells inside. The good ones have i think AAAA batteries inside soldered in and are very unlikely to leak in a reasonably short term (they are double shielded). If the leak happens replacing a 9V battery clip is so easy, some people even recycle an old 9V battery for the clip.
9V is also a reasonable voltage for a lot of analog measuring devices for keeping the circuit simple. You have them in NiMh chemistry also. The main problem with the format is that is not very energy dense, but at least you only need a single battery or two in some special cases.
Sometimes in the field you have 3 or 4 test devices and they don't even have a battery. You know you'll be able to work with a single battery that you buy in a grocery shop or the single spare you carry, at least for that day.
Yes, they can get corroded, but most times you throw the battery out and not even the clip is bad. With AA and AAA you may find a bad white or brown mess with the multiple specific contacts for the cells badly corroded and sometimes unrecoverable so you'll have to make strange things with rigid wire or finding contacts on Ebay to use it again.
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I used to have a device that used the hard to find AAAA cells. To get them I ended up disassembling a 9V battery and got 6 of them for less than it cost to buy a pack of 2.
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Very interesting....I don't think I've ever personally witnessed a 9V alkaline cell leak. I've had the most trouble with AA size alkalines.
One thing I plan to do this summer is replace as many AA alkaline batteries as I can with the newest generation eneloops. I have a few of the old ones and they are fantastic.
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I think I've had a 9V leak once, I've had others leak internally to the point that the ends were bulging but the outer case gives them an extra line of defense and the smaller internal cells may hold less liquid.
I've been using Eneloops in almost everything for years. I also have some Fujitsu that are supposedly made by the same company, and some of the Japanese Amazon Basics NiMH cells which are also quite good. Some are Chinese so check closely before buying.
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Second this ***WARNING*** for LEAKING 9v alkaline batteries.
Recently pulled my (~5 year old like new) 87V out to test a circuit and it wouldn't power on. Pulled the battery cover and to my dismay - Found a Duracell Quantum 9v with heavy corrosion coming out the top of the battery.
Tried to carefully remove the 9v snap connector. No issues with positive terminal but the negative terminals were pretty much chemically welded together. The negative post broke away from the battery and the snap connector with no real force applied.
Pulled the back off the meter to find corrosion down the negative lead at the JST PH2.0 style quick disconnect on the board... basically all visible metal on the negative lead was blue.
The connector pin on the board is still in good shape after cleaning. But unfortunately I haven't been able to find a female connector to match the male PH2.0 like connector Fluke used on the board. Also no luck trying to salvage the original connector... it was too far gone.
If something doesn't turn up for a drop in replacement, it looks like I'll be removing the 2 pin male connector from the board and replacing with a normal JST with an easy to find matching female. Pin pitch ~2.0mm. Male connector ~6.0mm x ~3.6mm. ~5.5mm height from top of board (minus pins going through board.).
I have a similar age 116 that was a gift/freebie from Fluke for the 87V purchase. 9v battery in the 116 was still in good shape, but I immediately pulled and replaced with a 9v Lithium.