Electronics > Power/Renewable Energy/EV's

Did the UK come closer than regulation proscribes to a black out?

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paulca:
There is a lot to learn from this video, into how the UK grid is structured and managed.

The controversy is that the grid operators press release said at no time did the grid go into it's "Reserve" capacity.  The regulations state that they must have, hot-standby generation to replace the single largest generator or inter-link if it fails.

The grid folks say they kept that in reserve at all times, but other analysists are asking them, "Prove it." and they are avoiding and evading pointing to the public generator records and stating which where online as reserve at that time.

I'm wondering if this lady is forgetting about the massive output the pumped hydro can produce for a relatively long amount of time.  It think it's rated well into the GW and will run for hours.  Or maybe that is not allowed to be counted and it's really only there as a big capacitor to smooth out load shifts.

There was apparently a 29% probability of an unscheduled "loss of load".  Which at first seems confusing, how would lack of generation cause a loss of load.  Well, because the grid will start to severe its self, interlinks to disconnect on FAULT and take the percieved fault area off line.   In the case of a generator loss that area will suddenly try and pull much more current (instead of supply) on that circuit and trip it out.  It usually cascades at least a bit though and many areas drop out before it stabilises.

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: paulca on January 16, 2025, 04:14:05 pm ---There is a lot to learn from this video, into how the UK grid is structured and managed.

The controversy is that the grid operators press release said at no time did the grid go into it's "Reserve" capacity.  The regulations state that they must have, hot-standby generation to replace the single largest generator or inter-link if it fails.

The grid folks say they kept that in reserve at all times, but other analysists are asking them, "Prove it." and they are avoiding and evading pointing to the public generator records and stating which where online as reserve at that time.

I'm wondering if this lady is forgetting about the massive output the pumped hydro can produce for a relatively long amount of time.  It think it's rated well into the GW and will run for hours.  Or maybe that is not allowed to be counted and it's really only there as a big capacitor to smooth out load shifts.

There was apparently a 29% probability of an unscheduled "loss of load".  Which at first seems confusing, how would lack of generation cause a loss of load.  Well, because the grid will start to severe its self, interlinks to disconnect on FAULT and take the percieved fault area off line.   In the case of a generator loss that area will suddenly try and pull much more current (instead of supply) on that circuit and trip it out.  It usually cascades at least a bit though and many areas drop out before it stabilises.



--- End quote ---

At a local IET meeting about the power grid, those responsible asked the attendees the question "will the lights go out?" Their answer was "yes", but it was clear that the question was not a useful question.

Your presumption "..massive output the pumped hydro can produce for a relatively long amount of time.  It think it's rated well into the GW and will run for hours." has too many adjectives and too few justified numbers. A 30s gurgle leads to https://british-hydro.org/pumped-storage-hydropower/ and "There are four operational PSH plants in the UK: Dinorwig (1983) 1.7 GW, 10.4 GWh; Foyers (1974) 300 MW, 6.4 GWh; Ffestiniog (1963) 360 MW, 7.6 GWh; Cruachan (1966) 440 MW, 7.6 GWh".

More interestingly, Coire Glas is scheduled to come online in 2029: 1.3GW, 30GWh.

Now, onto that video...

It is made by "UnHerd", an organisation with unclear sources of funds. I'll bet the ultimate source of their money will turn out to be climate change deniers, e.g. Koch brothers.

But UnHerd's mission is clearer, from https://unherd.com/about-unherd/
"...we make it our mission to challenge herd mentality wherever we see it ..."
"...We try to give a platform to the overlooked, the downtrodden and the traduced; and to people and places that the world has chosen to forget..."

In other words it is an example of the modern trend to spew out random rubbish, in the knowledge that after hitting the fan it will stick to some credulous fools who don't understand facts+reasoning but do understand emotions. "Just saying". "All opinions are equally valid"

As for UnHerd's "analysts"; they need to state their qualifications and who is paying money to them.

The TL;DR: classic FUD from the climate change denial industry. Ignore it.

coppice:

--- Quote from: paulca on January 16, 2025, 04:14:05 pm ---I'm wondering if this lady is forgetting about the massive output the pumped hydro can produce for a relatively long amount of time.  It think it's rated well into the GW and will run for hours.  Or maybe that is not allowed to be counted and it's really only there as a big capacitor to smooth out load shifts.

--- End quote ---
In her article on the same topic here https://watt-logic.com/2025/01/09/blackouts-near-miss-in-tighest-day-in-gb-electricity-market-since-2011/ she talks about Dinorwig being taken out of reserve and used, to lower costs during that event. Her main concern seems to be about a lack of transparency about which things NESO was relying on as reserve capacity.

jerryshah:
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Gyro:
Surely pumped storage, including Dinorwig, is used every day. It's a low cost load leveler, it would be stupid not to. It's been used every evening I've ever looked on Gridwatch. In fact it's being used right now. What does she mean by 'taken out of reserve'?  :-\

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