Author Topic: Wind turbine misshaps  (Read 3490 times)

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Offline Seph.b

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2018, 11:06:11 am »
I have always dreamed of real-time electricity pricing via higher frequency data on top of the 60Hz. Each cycle can have its own pricing data encoded in it. I think that would lead to a real flattening of electrical demand as 'smart' appliances can be set to run at certain price points and people that are interested in renewables/batteries could have more control over when they sell their power.

I know that will never happen though. 
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2018, 12:07:04 pm »
Quote
Almost no one consumer will be interested in switching off loads
Not true.


We still need to set some interface and communication standards on this...
Standards are nice but you can run things on a timer.  A friend of mine lives by himself and he has a timer on his water heater that turns it on a few hours before he get's up and heats the water for his bath.  and then shuts off. 

Saves on his energy bill even without have time of day  metering.
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2018, 09:33:29 pm »
A timer is a first step and was the old way to get more demand at night from too much non flexible power stations (e.g. nuclear, coal). With the renewables there is no fixed time pattern on when there is plenty of supply. At least in Germany wind energy is higher during the day and solar naturally if low at night. So with the current mix it is no more predictable at what time of day there will be too much or too little energy available.

So it needs a more flexible way to control the usage and pricing.  I think the technical aspect is the smallest here - the more difficult part is to find an acceptable (consumers and legislation) pricing model. Installing smarter meters is a first step, though at the current speed it likely only the 3rd generation of meters that will be really useful für flexible pricing.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2018, 10:10:16 pm »
"Installing smarter meters is a first step"

No thanks. You can keep your Green Marxist Party spies out of my house.
 
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Online Raj

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2018, 11:13:55 pm »
Can't compair it to nuke energy.
A single nuclear plant might have way more man hours and money invested into it,since investors know its dangerous.
While wind turbines sounds like child's science project done on a large scale,thus they don't get a chance to buy better materials for it.The engineers can't ask for space age materials since they can't afford it.
 

Offline gildasd

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2018, 02:40:35 am »
I tend to disagree.
While modern wind turbines are not over engineered as a nuclear plants, they are far from shabby.
The ones I have worked on (various North Sea projects) are designed to need only minor maintenance every 5 year and greasing every year. With overhaul not before 20 years (but expected at 25) - in a marine environment!
The kinds of steels and alloys for the mechanicals are better than what is found in main engines, themselves made to already pretty high standards...
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2018, 03:34:13 am »
Aluminium smelter, along with ferrochrome and  other electric arc furnace types, are not the load you can turn off fast or easy. Turn off the power for over 5 minutes and you will be spending a lot of money to strip the furnace out, move the 20 tons of solidified metal and slag to a corner of the plant ( as in move the whole furnace and the solid chunk inside it) and build a new pot in place of it. Then you have to break up the block of metal and glass, and dispose of it.

Power companies that supply smelters have a multi page contract for power, and there are massive penalties for unscheduled interruptions, and the power company will load shed pretty much every other customer before they will drop that smelter. Turning off a pot line is going to take a week, ramping down the feed and the pool of molten metal to the point where you can handle the blob when you switch off and it cools down. You only do that when you are relining the unit or upgrading it.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2018, 03:46:16 am »
You just can't overestimate the social resistance to smart meters.  They are being installed in my area at this time and facing strong resistance from folks stating their fears of the cancer risk from the RF link and the fire danger from the meters.  Apparently one (one!) of a previous model from the same manufacturer did catch fire and that has been magnified into an across the board fear that they will all go up in smoke.

The fears are so strong that people are paying a one time ~$200 opt out fee, and a monthly $34 fee for manual meter reading at their location.

With this reaction to smart meters it is no wonder that nuclear, which does have real but modest risks, excites so much resistance.
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2018, 04:08:12 am »
I agree. About ten years ago when smart meters started to be installed where I live, a public outcry started due to much higher energy bills arriving at the end of the month. There was a massive PR battle that tried to explain Eddy currents and averaging and, in the end, the power company had to review plans to upgrade existing meters due to the massive backlash - all new constructions use smart meters, though.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Miyuki

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2018, 05:39:08 am »
Here (Czech) always was "night current" and used to be almost for free decades ago, now it is not so cheap as you have to pay renewable support fee from it and significantly increase its price
No need for high end equipment to use, can be used even with dual mechanic meter or of course modern digital one
It send codes over power line and simple receiver at user to switch contactors

In most tariffs switching should not occur more than half an hour or hour (common are 8, 16 and 20 hours day), also street lights can be controlled this way
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2018, 05:59:40 am »
"As the technology is still rather new"
Well no.
We have been building these ugly ass monsters for more than 30 years now, and the construction of a nacelle or tower is nothing new.
Its only new for those who haven't been looking.
Wind power is basically on its last legs. Nothing spectacular can be expected.
The laws of physics can not be beat, not even by these things.
Its time we remove them and put our efforts in something that doesn't litter the landscape, has way more energy density, doesn't kill birds or people or their communities and break them financially by increasing energy prices sky high, and supplies power 24/7.

Just like a previous poster has already asked, I am also going to ask: What is your proposed alternative?

The thing is, every single energy-producing technology has its unique set of pitfalls. No technology is 100% safe and no 100% environmentally friendly. No technology is absolutely free.
Choices have to be made.
 
Personally, I believe the better strategy is to have an energy basket comprised of different technologies. Some fossil-fueled, some nuclear, some renewables (which includes wind).

The actual mix is highly dependent on your actual geographical location and your marketplace. An optimal solution for Iceland would be totally different to a solution for Saudi Arabia.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2018, 07:23:35 am »
Southern latitude PV, HVDC and 10+ TWh level storage tech. PV has basically no limit to cost reductions in sight, the storage tech is the problem. Wind will likely never drop below fuel cost for a fossil fuel plant (ie. never become economically interesting without subsidy).

You can't chip away at the problems with all these piecemail solutions which can only every solve a tiny part even if combined. It's just a waste of money to bet on so many lame horses. We don't need a mix, we need something that scales. Anything which can't scale (either in cost or magnitude) let it stand on it's own legs, either it's economical or it's not (most of the time not).
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 07:29:29 am by Marco »
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Wind turbine misshaps
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2018, 08:49:01 am »
You just can't overestimate the social resistance to smart meters.  They are being installed in my area at this time and facing strong resistance from folks stating their fears of the cancer risk from the RF link and the fire danger from the meters.
Yes, and of course, these same people hold a cell hone against their head while worrying over a transmitter tens of feet away that sends a short signal every couple hours!

Jon
 


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