Electric Car Experiences

[stryker]

That's the reality, but in the deranged minds of muscle car owners the louder the car, the faster it is.

Many governments are trying to enforce quieter cars with new regulations. However, what is happening in Europe right now seems stupid. Electric cars are failing the proposed standards, just on tyre noise. Super quiet tyres are possible, but they waste energy. I assume more balanced specs will be used in the final standards.

I would agree.  Look at the size of the battery in wireless ear buds.


Something I learned is the louder tires result in less efficiency.  (How much I do not know, but it makes sense.)  Tire noise requires energy.  The louder the tire noise requires more energy leaving less to power the car.

Sound takes very little energy. Soft quiet tyres, squidge as they roll and get warm. That wastes a lot of energy.

The difference between T0 (Tesla spec, standard on Model 3) and the standard Michelin Pilot is they have foam glued to the inside of the tyre for sound deadening.  It's not a softer compound touching the ground to make them quieter as an "EV spec" tyre.  This info was from Michelin when earlier this year when they had supply issues on T0's.  I've kept one of my cases as a spare, so can confirm the foam is in there.

[SilverSolder]

I'm going to laugh all the way to the bank... just as soon as these solar panels are paid off

I smile as a drive past gas stations.  I watched as a guy who filled his mussel car with gas, spending $130.  He was so made he then peeled out of the gas station burning rubber.  Between the gas the tire wear I bet that cost him a few dollars he probably doesn't have.

Most people that own muscle cars don't use them as daily drivers, they are a "hobby project" that gets waxed and polished more than anything!  Pretty harmless overall.

Filling the tank with premium fuel is absolutely unpleasant nowadays, of course!

[abquke]

A phenomenon that I hope is restricted to my vague geographic region is using giant full size diesel trucks as commuter vehicles. Diesel around here was $5.49/gal or so last I looked.

[abquke]

Maybe it'd be worthwhile to point out some cons of owning/driving and EV. The big one that I didn't see coming was that without all that dino blood releasing the fires of hell... there's no real waste heat to use for a heater. If I want warm air on a cold day, I literally have to dump battery power into a 9kW ceramic heater that warms up a coolant reservoir specifically for cabin air heating. Power also has to be used to warm up the battery coolant on cold days and regenerative braking isn't available until the battery is warm enough.

[SilverSolder]

Sub zero temperatures is an issue even for my hybrid car, the battery is inefficient when cold, and the engine has to run most of the time in order to heat the cabin...    fuel economy is something like 15% - 25% worse during winter as a a result.

[DougSpindler]

Maybe it'd be worthwhile to point out some cons of owning/driving and EV. The big one that I didn't see coming was that without all that dino blood releasing the fires of hell... there's no real waste heat to use for a heater. If I want warm air on a cold day, I literally have to dump battery power into a 9kW ceramic heater that warms up a coolant reservoir specifically for cabin air heating. Power also has to be used to warm up the battery coolant on cold days and regenerative braking isn't available until the battery is warm enough.

Not with an EV they use heat pumps to warm/cool the cabin.

[abquke]

Maybe it'd be worthwhile to point out some cons of owning/driving and EV. The big one that I didn't see coming was that without all that dino blood releasing the fires of hell... there's no real waste heat to use for a heater. If I want warm air on a cold day, I literally have to dump battery power into a 9kW ceramic heater that warms up a coolant reservoir specifically for cabin air heating. Power also has to be used to warm up the battery coolant on cold days and regenerative braking isn't available until the battery is warm enough.

Not with an EV they use heat pumps to warm/cool the cabin.

Teslas do that. Mine doesn't

[DougSpindler]

Maybe it'd be worthwhile to point out some cons of owning/driving and EV. The big one that I didn't see coming was that without all that dino blood releasing the fires of hell... there's no real waste heat to use for a heater. If I want warm air on a cold day, I literally have to dump battery power into a 9kW ceramic heater that warms up a coolant reservoir specifically for cabin air heating. Power also has to be used to warm up the battery coolant on cold days and regenerative braking isn't available until the battery is warm enough.

Not with an EV they use heat pumps to warm/cool the cabin.

Teslas do that. Mine doesn't

And I bet you didn't pay $100k for your car either.

[abquke]

And I bet you didn't pay $100k for your car either.

 

[NiHaoMike]

Maybe it'd be worthwhile to point out some cons of owning/driving and EV. The big one that I didn't see coming was that without all that dino blood releasing the fires of hell... there's no real waste heat to use for a heater. If I want warm air on a cold day, I literally have to dump battery power into a 9kW ceramic heater that warms up a coolant reservoir specifically for cabin air heating. Power also has to be used to warm up the battery coolant on cold days and regenerative braking isn't available until the battery is warm enough.

Heated seats would use a lot less power. Still need something to stop the windshield fogging up, a conductive coating similar to what's used on aircraft windshields could work if they could get the cost low enough.

[DougSpindler]

This sounds unbelievable, but formula E1 cars are able to capture 40% of the energy used for braking to recharge their batteries.  And something I don’t understand is E1 racers have developed fast recharging for E1 vehicles in remote areas.  (Not battery swaps, but fast recharging.)

This was mentioned in today's MarketPlace podcast near the end.

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/marketplace/the-salary-games-employers-play/

https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CAD3640791760.mp3

 

[abquke]

Heated seats would use a lot less power. Still need something to stop the windshield fogging up, a conductive coating similar to what's used on aircraft windshields could work if they could get the cost low enough.

My dad's bolt has heated seats and heated steering wheel. They're pretty sweet and I'm jealous.

Fogging windows is a thing, but it has only happened to me carrying 3 people on a reasonably cold day.

[NiHaoMike]

There are aftermarket heated seat mats. Not sure if there's an easy way to add a heated steering wheel but a 12V heater with some ducting might be a good enough alternative.

[DougSpindler]

There are aftermarket heated seat mats. Not sure if there's an easy way to add a heated steering wheel but a 12V heater with some ducting might be a good enough alternative.

Might also kill you if the ducting or the wires come loose and get tangled in the steering wheel or brake pedals. 

[SilverSolder]

Heated seats would use a lot less power. Still need something to stop the windshield fogging up, a conductive coating similar to what's used on aircraft windshields could work if they could get the cost low enough.

My dad's bolt has heated seats and heated steering wheel. They're pretty sweet and I'm jealous.

Fogging windows is a thing, but it has only happened to me carrying 3 people on a reasonably cold day.

Fogging windows - turn on A/C and heat at the same time (to dehumidify).  Most cars do this automatically when you select defog.

[NiHaoMike]

[DougSpindler]

What point are you tryin to make by posting a 20 minute video without any text or explanation?

[f4eru]

None. Just ignore.

[kaz911]

Maybe it'd be worthwhile to point out some cons of owning/driving and EV. The big one that I didn't see coming was that without all that dino blood releasing the fires of hell... there's no real waste heat to use for a heater. If I want warm air on a cold day, I literally have to dump battery power into a 9kW ceramic heater that warms up a coolant reservoir specifically for cabin air heating. Power also has to be used to warm up the battery coolant on cold days and regenerative braking isn't available until the battery is warm enough.

Not with an EV they use heat pumps to warm/cool the cabin.

Only very recent Teslas use heat pumps for cabin heat.

My X 2021 (Last pre-facelift) does not. So I think it is fair to say 85-90% of all Teslas do not have heat pumps. And it shows on the electric bill.

In the summer I usually use 350-450 Wh / mile - and in the winter 500-700 Wh per mile (short < 30 mile trips) - if I switch everything off and is very careful I can push summer down to about 260-320 Wh / mile but then it is very wind and temperature dependent.

The above figures are averages - not "instant" measurements downhill with the sun and wind at my back.

[free_electron]

Only very recent Teslas use heat pumps for cabin heat.

My X 2021 (Last pre-facelift) does not. So I think it is fair to say 85-90% of all Teslas do not have heat pumps. And it shows on the electric bill.

all model Y, and all 3 from 2021 on use heat pumps. So most of the Tesla's on the road do use heatpump. 70% of all tesla's on the road today are 3/y as they are volume cars.
s/X has it since the horizontal touchscreen.

[kaz911]

Only very recent Teslas use heat pumps for cabin heat.

My X 2021 (Last pre-facelift) does not. So I think it is fair to say 85-90% of all Teslas do not have heat pumps. And it shows on the electric bill.

all model Y, and all 3 from 2021 on use heat pumps. So most of the Tesla's on the road do use heatpump. 70% of all tesla's on the road today are 3/y as they are volume cars.
s/X has it since the horizontal touchscreen.

ok I was wrong on the pct - sorry

But up until and including 2020 Tesla had produced 1.5 million cars (roughly)

2021+2022 (q1+q2)  = 1.5 million total

So I guess it can maximum be 50% using heat pumps? (unless a large pct. have been scrapped?)

I would love a "heat pump" upgrade for my X. My X is from ? March '21 and did not come with heat pump. I think the first X's are the facelift models - and very few of those arrived in '21 in the UK.

[coppice]

Aren't a lot of EV other than Teslas still be released without a heat pump, or with one only in the top of the range trim?

[free_electron]

the thing with other EV's is that they do not have an integrated cooling system. Tesla circulates coolant through the battery pack , motors (both) , the inverters , the charger , a/c and other items. That's what the octovalve does.



it allows circulation of coolant to deliver heat/cold wher eneeded. so they are recycling the waste-heat

[kaz911]

the thing with other EV's is that they do not have an integrated cooling system. Tesla circulates coolant through the battery pack , motors (both) , the inverters , the charger , a/c and other items. That's what the octovalve does.

it allows circulation of coolant to deliver heat/cold wher eneeded. so they are recycling the waste-heat

that does look really smart! There are some smart cookies working for Tesla!

Maybe that can help solve one of my personal "i want" issues.

We waste so much energy on heating and cooling in a home due to having fridges, freezers and heat sources like heat-pumps etc.

So on one hand we are spending a lot on heat where part waste is "cooled air" while we cool fridge and freezers where the waste is hot air. So why not use the waste cooling from heating our home - to cool our fridge? And in the summer we like "A/C" in certain situations but still would like hot water and heated towel racks. There will of course be times with imbalance in needs but if it can work in a car - it could scale?

Home solutions would of course be expensive to make and setup. But there could be lot of industrial use. Think of walking into a supermarket with row after row of cooling devices - while they have to run heat to maintain shop temperature. Looking at HVAC for retail is mind boggling as you often have rows of roof mounted HVAC units for the general HVAC heating/cooling -  "fighting" the massive amount of compressors for the cooling units.

[stryker]

it allows circulation of coolant to deliver heat/cold wher eneeded. so they are recycling the waste-heat

It's quite incredible how rapidly this system has developed too.  Our 3 year old model 3 has the older "super bottle" design which used a slight reverse on the motor to generate heat rather than having an independent heat pump and was about heat scavenging but not able to direct the hot/cold coolant wherever it was needed.  That was an efficiency improvement over the S/X platform that used a heating element, but octovalve took it to the next level, and that itself has had dozens of iterations since release.