Electric Car Experiences

[sokoloff]

My LEAF turns 8 next month and I had the wheels off it for the first time in its life last weekend. Enough surface rust near the circumference of the brake rotors had formed to produce a slight grinding noise on right turns (as the inner pad dragged along the rusty border between swept and unswept).

A quick sanding to remove that rust, brake pad check (50% or so left on front, 25-30% on rear), front<->rear tire rotation, and everything is back in order. It’s impressive how little maintenance has been needed (aside from the battery pack module replaced under warranty, which is big for Nissan, but free for me).

As a cheap run around town car, it fits the bill nearly perfectly.

[coppice]

My LEAF turns 8 next month and I had the wheels off it for the first time in its life last weekend. Enough surface rust near the circumference of the brake rotors had formed to produce a slight grinding noise on right turns (as the inner pad dragged along the rusty border between swept and unswept).

A quick sanding to remove that rust, brake pad check (50% or so left on front, 25-30% on rear), front<->rear tire rotation, and everything is back in order. It’s impressive how little maintenance has been needed (aside from the battery pack module replaced under warranty, which is big for Nissan, but free for me).

As a cheap run around town car, it fits the bill nearly perfectly.

How many miles has it done? 8 years is a long life for a set of tyres, and EVs generally wear them faster than gas powered cars, because of their weight.

[sokoloff]

Only around 25K miles. The fronts (now rears) are near the wear limit and I’ll replace them before the snow comes. The rears (now fronts) were very lightly worn, so I moved them to the fronts to get more use from them before they age out.

[DougSpindler]

Sandy Morano has an excellent video explaining how brilliant the octovalve.  But Sandy says BMW's Loss Core technology is good as well.

[SilverSolder]

Sandy Morano has an excellent video explaining how brilliant the octovalve.  But Sandy says BMW's Loss Core technology is good as well.

It wasn't obvious from the video what this item is actually used for...   it looked nicely expensive though!

[Edit]
Watched a video on this.  Basically, it allows heat energy to be moved around between different parts of the vehicle/motors/battery in clever ways.  It is definitely clever, not so sure about cost and long term reliability?

[Neilm]

Sandy Morano has an excellent video explaining how brilliant the octovalve.  But Sandy says BMW's Loss Core technology is good as well.

It wasn't obvious from the video what this item is actually used for...   it looked nicely expensive though!

[Edit]
Watched a video on this.  Basically, it allows heat energy to be moved around between different parts of the vehicle/motors/battery in clever ways.  It is definitely clever, not so sure about cost and long term reliability?

Considering Monro videos used it as a bit of a meme (Sandy sees something terribe and faints "quick bring the Octovalve to bring in round" I would guess he is impressed enough to think it would last for a while

[DougSpindler]

Sandy Morano has an excellent video explaining how brilliant the octovalve.  But Sandy says BMW's Loss Core technology is good as well.

It wasn't obvious from the video what this item is actually used for...   it looked nicely expensive though!

[Edit]
Watched a video on this.  Basically, it allows heat energy to be moved around between different parts of the vehicle/motors/battery in clever ways.  It is definitely clever, not so sure about cost and long term reliability?

Compared to an automatic transmission rat maze, (9:27) this is simplistic.

[stryker]

It is definitely clever, not so sure about cost and long term reliability?

As others here have noted, it's not as complex to manufacture as an ICE transmission. In the comparison video of the Ford Mach-E the complexity, cost, and reliability and ultimately the weight penalty of the Ford solution is far inferior to this.  The Mach-E system they stress is the 2nd best system currently available, far better than all others aside from Tesla.

[f4eru]

The huge difference is :
- The tesla "supermanifold" is litterally at it's first technological generation, with many potential for improvement
- Any hydraulic "rat maze" of an automatic ICE transmission is at it's 10th tech generation or so, and it's last, most optimized form, at the brink of obsolescence.

[NiHaoMike]

For those who say EVs don't work well in cold weather:

Not sure how that Kia was able to charge from a Tesla charging station.

[f4eru]

Tesla superchargers are open to other brands in Europe.

[richard.cs]

Not with an EV they use heat pumps to warm/cool the cabin.

Teslas do that. Mine doesn't

The Renault Zoe has a heatpump (integrated with the cooling system so it can use waste heat) and it's not exactly a high-end vehicle. On a 30 minute drive last weekend (around 8C outside temperature, cabin temperature set to 20C) it used 0.2 kWh to reach and maintain cabin temperature.

[f4eru]

Cool, didn't know that the Zoe had this... My Tesla doesn't (too old, now it's a standard on all new ones).

I hope it gets to be a standard equipment soon on all cars.
VW still has it as a paying option....

[Mike Jung]

My LEAF turns 8 next month and I had the wheels off it for the first time in its life last weekend. Enough surface rust near the circumference of the brake rotors had formed to produce a slight grinding noise on right turns (as the inner pad dragged along the rusty border between swept and unswept).

A quick sanding to remove that rust, brake pad check (50% or so left on front, 25-30% on rear), front<->rear tire rotation, and everything is back in order. It’s impressive how little maintenance has been needed (aside from the battery pack module replaced under warranty, which is big for Nissan, but free for me).

As a cheap run around town car, it fits the bill nearly perfectly.

A slight grinding noise on turns is a sign of a worn wheel bearing. OR, in the past somebody forgot to tighten the driveshaft nut on a front wheel drive. Save for marginal brands, wheel bearings wear due to water going past the ( marginal ) seals built into them. On modern cars they are angular contacts, back to back ( inners), factory preloaded, in a common outer race. That makes testing them almost impossible when the wear is marginal as the bearing shows play only when the weight of the vehicle bears on it.

[sokoloff]

In this case, it was rust on the unswept portion dragging. 45 seconds per side with a flap disk and the noise (which was entirely repeatable previously) went away entirely.

[Mike Jung]

In this case, it was rust on the unswept portion dragging. 45 seconds per side with a flap disk and the noise (which was entirely repeatable previously) went away entirely.

I am sure it went away - I believe you. But, the fact the noise appeared IN TURNS is concerning. It indicates there is movement between the brake caliper and disk. A ( very !)  distant reason might be that the brake pipe is sufficiently stiff ( or wrongly routed / anchored) to cause the caliper to move slightly ( on the pins ) in turns. The rust ( you sanded off ) is why you could hear the problem. On a clean disk it is still there only you can't hear it.
I noticed you mention the rear pads being worn twice as much as the front ones. If you started with both pairs new at the same time, that should never be the case.  The rears should last at least twice longer than the front or something is seriously wrong.   And now, that I probably irritated you quite a bit I'll end by mentioning that rotating tires ( radials ) is a less than good idea. Tires tend to "memorize" loads and suspension angles and when "challenged" make for slight wondering, pulling etc besides alignment being off. Add the fact you end up buying 4 new tires at once. I read your post again : the car is 8 years old, it seems. Just keep an eye on that bearing...

I sincerely apologize for my interfering.

[james_s]

There's always going to be SOME movement, wheel bearings have some allowable amount of axial play. Most cars now also have floating calipers that slide on guide pins and when turning the centrifugal force will push the caliper toward the outside. Any rust or debris that builds up will eventually contact something and it's natural that this would happen during times that the clearance changes even if only by a few thousandths of an inch.

[Mike Jung]

There's always going to be SOME movement, wheel bearings have some allowable amount of axial play. Most cars now also have floating calipers that slide on guide pins and when turning the centrifugal force will push the caliper toward the outside. Any rust or debris that builds up will eventually contact something and it's natural that this would happen during times that the clearance changes even if only by a few thousandths of an inch.

NO. Tapered roller bearings ( old cars and heavy duty vehicles ) are installed with a couple of microns ( 2-3 tenth) PLAY or they will overheat. They are an order of magnitude tougher than modern car bearings. Those are angular contact ball bearings and they are mounted with FACTORY PRELOAD ( and quite a bit of it...) and should stay like that for some time. There is indeed a max allowable play permitted by SOME manufacturers. It's measured at the periphery of the disk and it is very small - half a thou for my Renault Scenic, for example. "A couple of thou's" is disaster range. There is no centrifugal force to push the caliper - the caliper does not rotate. However, there is CENTRIPETAL force due to the pads friction on the disk. Only, this one draws the caliper towards the center of the disk....

[sokoloff]

I noticed you mention the rear pads being worn twice as much as the front ones. If you started with both pairs new at the same time, that should never be the case.  The rears should last at least twice longer than the front or something is seriously wrong.   And now, that I probably irritated you quite a bit I'll end by mentioning that rotating tires ( radials ) is a less than good idea. Tires tend to "memorize" loads and suspension angles and when "challenged" make for slight wondering, pulling etc besides alignment being off. Add the fact you end up buying 4 new tires at once. I read your post again : the car is 8 years old, it seems. Just keep an eye on that bearing...

You haven’t annoyed me in the least. I bought the car new and the pads are original. The rears are worn about 50% more (in depth/mile), not 100% more and, importantly, they are tiny compared to the fronts (in profile view area), so it’s not that worrisome that they’re wearing slightly faster in depth. 

I drive that car about 3-4K miles per year. It would be difficult to use up a pair of rear tires before they age out if I never ran them on the front. I expect to change all four at around 10-12 years.

[Mike Jung]

I noticed you mention the rear pads being worn twice as much as the front ones. If you started with both pairs new at the same time, that should never be the case.  The rears should last at least twice longer than the front or something is seriously wrong.   And now, that I probably irritated you quite a bit I'll end by mentioning that rotating tires ( radials ) is a less than good idea. Tires tend to "memorize" loads and suspension angles and when "challenged" make for slight wondering, pulling etc besides alignment being off. Add the fact you end up buying 4 new tires at once. I read your post again : the car is 8 years old, it seems. Just keep an eye on that bearing...

You haven’t annoyed me in the least. I bought the car new and the pads are original. The rears are worn about 50% more (in depth/mile), not 100% more and, importantly, they are tiny compared to the fronts (in profile view area), so it’s not that worrisome that they’re wearing slightly faster in depth. 

I drive that car about 3-4K miles per year. It would be difficult to use up a pair of rear tires before they age out if I never ran them on the front. I expect to change all four at around 10-12 years.

Thank you, I understand. I'll send you a PM. Thank you, again.

[kaz911]

Just an update on our Tesla X '21 adventure.

I like the technology - i like the car. It is a bit cheaply built compared to other cars in its price-range.

In mid december - during the "slight snow" we reversed into our driveway - and despite gritting - the car slid down the driveway - and hit the garage. Breake fully engage - car just slid down.

Impact was on left rear corner - taking out left sidepanel and tailgate. Compression was less than 1.5" but required 45 replacement components to fix.

Car has since then sat in Garage waiting for spare parts. Tesla can't deliver parts for model S or X within a reasonable timeframe. Body parts are taking 3-9 months !! to arrive. We have hopes for repair finishing around start May unless something else turns up.

So the moment our X comes back - it goes up for sale. We can't own a car where body parts are not available.

Tesla X plus's:
Fast, drives well, have reasonable range dependent on temperature and wind. It has trailer hitch, and 6 seats. Fits 6 people fine with small suitcases. It is the most relaxing car to drive I have ever driven.

Tesla X minus's
Loading capacity is terrible for 6 seater as "captain seats" in the middle can't be moved. For 6 seats luggage space is very limited. Cameras OFTEN gets blinded by low sun or water/ice making "some safety-electronics" not operational. Camera's quality are bad, colour calibration way off - no 360 view like on Mercedes. No native Apple Car interface. Gull wing doors are SLOW and often not aware of their surroundings. Software updates post a newer refresh model "minor". Charge interface/options are very limited for controlling when and how to charge.  No point in Tesla's Gen 3 charger with WiFi at ALL. (I changed to another brand of charger). If fully or almost fully charged - regenerative brake system can't discharge to batteries - making the brake experience very different.

and last but not least the straw that broke the camels back... Spare part availability is rubbish and logistics knowledge and planning seem completely absent. When they are not building model S's or X's - they don't make spare parts leading to excessive long wait times.

And the not car related Tesla issues: Tesla EMEA shop is the most disorganised org I have ever dealt with. Ordered key holder - and got a Model 3 hub cab. Ordered a replacement wiper - got an empty tube (no tape or anything over ends of the tubes). No response AT ALL to any mails apart from "automated" collection notices from items delivered wrong. Then DHL kept ringing our doorbell to collect items already collected and marked as received.

So in short Tesla could be great - but they do not have the infrastructure in place, nor the logistics to provide service to their clients.

Our insurance company is now refusing new Tesla insurance due to the lack of parts. (They are providing rental car for the duration) - and they have a LOT of S's and X's stuck waiting for parts.

Tesla is no longer a "new player" - so there is no excuse for the lack of parts. Tesla have done a calculated risk about not supplying parts - and I think it will bite them in the rear end.

[DougSpindler]

Thanks of the post kaz911.  I’ve been thinking of a Tesla but I’m hearing so many stories similar to yours.  I’m now thinking of a Rivian.  I have a test drive scheduled on Thursday.  Where I live I’m seeing a surprising number of Rivians.  Have not seen any complaints.

I current have a Volt, it’s my second.  I should make a separate post on this by GM has admitted there is an unfixable flaw in the Volt and several other GM models in the tens of millions.  If anyone has a Volt or any of the other GM cars and had the StP issue they can sue GM and get a substantial settlement.

[DougSpindler]

I have a Volt and have been very pleased with the car.  So pleased, this is my second Volt.  But like many other Volt owners I had the Shift to Park issue with both cars  Turns out GM has manufactured and sold tens of thousands of GM cars knowing they have a StP defect.  GM has admitted the car has a defect and with the Volts can cause serious injury and death.
GM cannot issue a recall as there is no fix.

I like many other Volt and other GM car owners who purchased these defective cars have sued GM for selling a car with a known unfixable defect and received a very nice cash settlement with next to no opposition from GM.

I’m doing this as a public service - If you have a Volt or other GM car and have experienced the StP issue you can sue GM at no cost, since GM has admitted they knowingly sold defective cars.  Expcet GM to settle the case quickly and in return expect to receive a cash settlement and more.
That’s been my EV experience with 2 Volts….  Both having the StP issue.

[coppice]

I think EV makers in general have a support issue. The stories about Teslas get a lot of news, but look at other makes. When I buy a car I need to know it will have support - quick and easy to access maintenance, crash repairs and so on. Its not a toy. I'm not buying a Ferrari, where its definitely not a daily driver, and it can be off the road for a while without much impact to me. If it breaks, or needs impact repair, it needs to be quickly working again. Loan cars are not really an effective substitute for getting your car back, and if we aren't taking about warranty work the cost is huge. In this environment look at the tales of the big European brands, like VW and BMW. Their ICE cars get turned around quickly, but there are many reports of the electric ones being off the road for ages, or needing to go extreme distances to a service centre. Polestar, being a new brand, one might expect to push their support side hard on their web site, and in other publicity. Last time I looked they didn't mention what you do to get one fixed. Do you go to your local Volvo dealer? Seems you do, as when I take my Volvo in for its annual service there are bunch of Polestars standing by the service shop. It seems Volvo/Polestar don't even register the needs of the average car owner in promoting their products.

[DougSpindler]

The car industry is a tough one and being a new player is challenging.  But with this shift to EVs the industry is being disrupted.  I thought I would hate an EV, but my wife forced it upon me and now I'm a convert.  I will NEVER buy an ICE car again, ever.

I hate going here, but with the problems you've been having getting parts for your Tesla have you thought about contacting a lawyer?  I have a Volt, and the Shift to Park issue left me stranded three times.  As I began researching the StP issue I found not only did GM know about the defect, they sold the cars with the defect anyway.  And this is AFTER the ignition switch defect that GM knew about and killed 127 customers/people.  Mary Barra stated she would NEVER let something like that happen again at GM.  Well it did.  This is why I sued GM.  I have since learned GM has sold 10s of millions of cars which all have the StP defect.  How could GM do this to customers?  And the stupid think is GM for less than $0.10 a car could have prevented the StP defect.  Like the ignition switch defect, the StP can kill families and GM isn't saying a word about this.  They already settled one lawsuit with a family who nearly died.  They were rushed to the hospital with CO poisoning.

Have you talked to a Lemon Law attorney?  It won't cost you a penny.

And if anyone is a Volt or GM car owner with a car that's had the StP issue contact an attorney and sue GM for selling you a defective car.