Electric Car Experiences

[kaz911]

US law vs EU/UK law is different regarding settlements.

So basic EU/UK lawsuits you can sue for actual loss only. And you have to demonstrate the value of your loss. Then you get compensation for that plus maybe something for supplier being careless. But it is lots of work for little payout.

US settlements are usually 10-50x larger at least. I had a US settlement once for something I had purchased - and ended up getting about 40% back of the original purchase price for 8 months of "forced downtime" on something with an estimated 30 year life. 

[DougSpindler]

Thanks for sharing.  As I sued GM I am not allowed to discuss the specifics of my StP lawsuit.  But let's just say GM settled, paid ALL attorneys fees AND provided enough cash and other concessions equaling about 2 GM cars.

If the US if a product manufacture knowingly sells a defective product as the Volt they are liable for court costs, attorney fees, and punitive damages.  All which I received over the StP issue.

[SilverSolder]

Thanks for sharing.  As I sued GM I am not allowed to discuss the specifics of my StP lawsuit.  But let's just say GM settled, paid ALL attorneys fees AND provided enough cash and other concessions equaling about 2 GM cars.

If the US if a product manufacture knowingly sells a defective product as the Volt they are liable for court costs, attorney fees, and punitive damages.  All which I received over the StP issue.

To my mind, the Shift to Park issue is related to the general trend of overcomplicating cars.   Who needs a simple transmission shift cable (on an ICE car) that can last 50 years when you can replace said cable with a computer and a servo (looking at you, Ford) with a TTL of a few years?

[tom66]

I think EV makers in general have a support issue. The stories about Teslas get a lot of news, but look at other makes. When I buy a car I need to know it will have support - quick and easy to access maintenance, crash repairs and so on. Its not a toy. I'm not buying a Ferrari, where its definitely not a daily driver, and it can be off the road for a while without much impact to me. If it breaks, or needs impact repair, it needs to be quickly working again. Loan cars are not really an effective substitute for getting your car back, and if we aren't taking about warranty work the cost is huge. In this environment look at the tales of the big European brands, like VW and BMW. Their ICE cars get turned around quickly, but there are many reports of the electric ones being off the road for ages, or needing to go extreme distances to a service centre. Polestar, being a new brand, one might expect to push their support side hard on their web site, and in other publicity. Last time I looked they didn't mention what you do to get one fixed. Do you go to your local Volvo dealer? Seems you do, as when I take my Volvo in for its annual service there are bunch of Polestars standing by the service shop. It seems Volvo/Polestar don't even register the needs of the average car owner in promoting their products.

I was rear ended in my ID.3 and the bumper replacement took 2 months... but that being said it was more of a workshop capacity issue as I understand it (the part had a 1 week lead time). Fortunately the car was drivable just with a cracked bumper.

It very much depends on the extent of the damage.  If any HV components are involved it needs a specialist and there just aren't enough of those yet.

[f4eru]

Same experience here. I was rear-ended in my Skoda Enyaq (same car as VW ID4 with different styling).
A few crush elements and bumper parts were replaced, for a reasonnable price.

All this FUD over battery write off is what it is, well, FUD.
An EV battery pack is a very robust package, and if it gets heavy damage, it would have written off an ICE car going through the same accident anyway.

The only exception to this is damaged connections HV, or coolant to the pack, like in the example from Rich Rebuilds:



Then you either accept a high quote for a complete exchange, or you accept to go to an independent.
There are similar situations with ICE cars, where road debris can break off parts of an engine which are not easy to replace without huge cost at official OEM rates, but you can get to an independent garage which may be able to weld together a thing that works.

The generalized stays true : the maintenance in an EV is 1/3 that of an ICE car, long term.

[BarrowBoy]

Not here to gloat. I cant. I (my wife to clarify..lol) has taken delivery of the high performance version of the Volvo EX30. Dual motor....blah blah blah. Whilst I could gloat about the fact we were one of the first to receive it , and it's the performance bargain of the century (as the saying goes, and at time of writing) if you consider it as a very hot hatchback rather than a tiny SUV.  I don't want to start a ICE vs EV event.... I can't gloat, because it's got firmware bugs that are incredibly frustrating and sometimes make me want to  jump out while it's moving. . Volvo assure me things will be fixed....and then I may gloat...be warned 

Quick she is, but being a Volvo...limited to 180km/h.  Not for the track....unless of course it can be hacked.

[DougSpindler]

People have been saying the same about VW software.  40% of customers are dissatisfied

Tesla by far has the best software.  Best charging network (in the states).  Rivian software is very good as well.

[coppice]

People have been saying the same about VW software.  40% of customers are dissatisfied

People keep talking about EV software, like its someone peculiar to an EV. While some of it obviously is, any modern luxury car has a lot of similar software, especially hybrids, that need to do an even more complex juggling job with how they brake and recover energy. The infotainment and driver assistance systems in modern cars are notorious for their failure rates and high cost to repair, but the software quality isn't usually a huge problem.

[DougSpindler]

When the software is buggy, doesn't work, crashes and gives you shit information the software IS the problem.

[coppice]

When the software is buggy, doesn't work, crashes and gives you shit information the software IS the problem.

So, if most EVs have such terrible software, how come most people are not complaining as much about ICE cars? They are mostly made by the same people, and they are all full of software which needs to work pretty well for a safe comfortable experience.

[BarrowBoy]

When the software is buggy, doesn't work, crashes and gives you shit information the software IS the problem.

When the software is buggy, doesn't work, crashes and gives you shit information the software IS the problem.

So, if most EVs have such terrible software, how come most people are not complaining as much about ICE cars? They are mostly made by the same people, and they are all full of software which needs to work pretty well for a safe comfortable experience.

Guys, being the husband of the actual owner of this EX30, I agree both of the above statements. Your both correct IMO, I'm simply paying the price as a early adopter. To be honest I like fast cars but miss the ICE feeling that I get from my ICE car, that's also had numerus software issues over it's 7 year life. I'm in Mrs BarrowBoy's ear for an upgrade, and funny thing is she thinks the EX30 is a great car (which in the most part is for a EV.)...wish me well.....lol

[f4eru]

So, if most EVs have such terrible software, how come most people are not complaining as much about ICE cars?

Because most manufacturers use the generational technology change to also do an architecture upgrade, revamping the complete platform from top to bottom, HW and SW is completely new.

They are mostly made by the same people, and they are all full of software

That is not the case. In older pre-2020 platforms, the SW was written by an army of suppliers of the HW modules. Each HW module was a blackbox, as long as the OEM (car manufacturer) was concerned. The OEM only managed all interfaces, and tried to get a coherent system out of a myriad of coordinated black boxes. The obvious inefficiencies with this arch were not a problem until EVs used better electronics archs, lead by Tesla.
Most manufacturers now are getting their hands dirty, and setting up completely new software teams to write completely new software to a completely new arch, with new kind of cooperation with their HW suppliers, most apply this only to EV platforms, some also revamp ICE platforms because shared stuff...
That is a difficult transition.

[Bryn]

If I wanted a car, I'd seek to have an electric one... just as long there's enough EV chargers dotted around and, if it's worth the money. I heard they're cheaper than petrol/diesel cars anyway.

[Neilm]

I have been driving a Tesla model 3 for the last 5 years and have no complaints. I am just shy of 100k miles. Maintainance costs are 1 set of tyres (about to but my next set), 2 sets of wipers some windscreen fluid and a new set of cabin filters I fitted myself in about 40 mins. I will not count the new windscreen as debris hitting windscreens is a hazard of driving but that was covered by my insurance.

[bookaboo]

Similar experience here, 2 years with a Model-Y. 46k miles and no trouble ( I wouldn't expect any).
I'm not really a car person, they are a means to an end for me. Though I do like driving the Tesla, not nearly as tiring to drive on long trips as a manual ICE.

What I really do like is the overall cost of ownership. The servicing and fueling costs saved mean the car will be much cheaper to run (over the 10 years I plan to keep it) than anything ICE (even taking into account larger depreciation). The company car tax break here is what really made it a no brainer.

It suits me well as I have home and work charging, do lots of miles but rarely outside of the range of the car (when I do there are 2 superchargers on either route).

Of course they won't be for everyone and although I'm a huge EV fan, I still believe the leftist planned ban on ICE is a ridiculous pile of nonsense.

[stryker]

Similar here. We run two EVs, both mostly charged at home. We clocked 5 years with the Model 3 in September (it was off the first Australian shipment) and so far actual servicing has been to replace the brake fluid once - which it didn't really need, I was just being cautious prior a long road trip. Consumables have been a cabin filter, tyres and wipers. Our other car is the MG ZS EV which has a dealer service schedule but we've not followed it as it's an annual checklist. The first "service" cost $195 and so far wipers, headlight globe, and tyres are all we've spent on it. It's coming up to 4 years now. Cost of ownership has been outstanding for both.

[EEVblog]

Well, that was fun:

[stryker]

That's a cautionary tale Dave. I've just looked up how to manually release ours so now I'm prepared 

[EEVblog]

That's a cautionary tale Dave. I've just looked up how to manually release ours so now I'm prepared 

I know mind had it, but I had totally forgotten about it. Only dawned on me like 20minutes after trying to solve the problem.

[coppice]

That's a cautionary tale Dave. I've just looked up how to manually release ours so now I'm prepared 

I know mind had it, but I had totally forgotten about it. Only dawned on me like 20minutes after trying to solve the problem.

That's a problem with a lot of these backup mechanisms. The system could be very flaky, you need to use the backup often, you always have the backup in mind, so you know just how to use it. Its not a big deal, unless you have to pull out lots of things to get to the mechanism. The system could be highly reliable, its years since you read about the emergency procedure when you need it, and even if you finally remember there is something there you can't remember where its hidden or how to use it. So, is a reliable system or a flaky system best?

[fastbike]

Any thoughts on using a Nissan Leaf (Gen 2) as a home battery, as well as a car. I don't drive much and am installing a 12kW solar pv system but have put off installing a battery due to cost.
I'm assuming there is a V2H (rather than V2L) option that could output directly from the HV battery of the car through the required electronics/inverters etc ?

[uer166]

is a reliable system or a flaky system best?

Think about the DCFC CCS case: using the mechanical release and (potentially) pulling the plug during charge under load will result in a big 800VDC zorch, destroying both the charger cable connector and EV inlet, not to mention the risk of eye damage/shock. I'll take the reliable one with occasional issues, thank you.

[Siwastaja]

Any thoughts on using a Nissan Leaf (Gen 2) as a home battery, as well as a car. I don't drive much and am installing a 12kW solar pv system but have put off installing a battery due to cost.
I'm assuming there is a V2H (rather than V2L) option that could output directly from the HV battery of the car through the required electronics/inverters etc ?

As a car Leaf offers quite good value, prices of used cars are down because lack of modern day features like CCS plug, battery thermal management/preheating etc scares off buyers and make some people swap for better. But if you can live without those features then it's really fine and as a car generally a very reliable car. On the list of all cars (EVs and ICEs), inspection failure reports have shown Leaf on the #1 least fails and Tesla with most fails, everything else goes in-between. So if you can AC charge at home and need to get reliably from point A to point B, Leaf is a good choice.

For longer road trips it's total crap. Well with the largest battery option (60kWh) you could manage, especially if you buy aftermarket CCS-Chademo adapter which is finally available after all these years, but you would be still waiting for the battery to cool down and accept decent charging power at the second or third fast charge.

Leaf does have V2x output but I'm not aware of any actual interface product outside of Japanese market. If it exists, it's going to be expensive. I have been playing with the idea of DIY, you could easily get an off-the-shelf hybrid battery inverter (like the Solis discussed on the other thread) and build interface box with Chademo connector translating Chademo V2X messages (these are standardized so other Chademo vehicles would work, too) to act like it was another type of battery (e.g. BYD) supported by the inverter. Basically needs Chademo plug, fusing, contactor, all that dangerous HVDC design stuff, CAN + RS485 and a microcontroller. A LOT of work for something seemingly simple. Maybe someone has done it already.

[Siwastaja]

is a reliable system or a flaky system best?

Think about the DCFC CCS case: using the mechanical release and (potentially) pulling the plug during charge under load will result in a big 800VDC zorch, destroying both the charger cable connector and EV inlet, not to mention the risk of eye damage/shock. I'll take the reliable one with occasional issues, thank you.

I'm quite sure neither CCS nor Chademo depends on the mechanical locking alone for disconnect safety. They surely must use control signals, pins of which disconnect first and quickly open the HVDC contactors (in the car/battery pack and in the charger).

[langwadt]

is a reliable system or a flaky system best?

Think about the DCFC CCS case: using the mechanical release and (potentially) pulling the plug during charge under load will result in a big 800VDC zorch, destroying both the charger cable connector and EV inlet, not to mention the risk of eye damage/shock. I'll take the reliable one with occasional issues, thank you.

sure it doens't have some mechanical/redundant system to make sure power gets disconnected before the plug disconnects?