EV battery lease or purchase?

[Simon]

I am looking to buy a used EV and my options seem to be around a £9-11'000 Nissan leaf that has done 30'000 miles or less with the battery included in the price and a Renault Zoe for less than £6'000 that has a lease on the battery.

The Nissan could be a 30KWh battery but the Zoe's are 22kWh. so yea nice to have the little more range but as this is my first I don't want to go mad and be better prepared for my second EV.

So does £5-6000 for a battery 30kWh that is 4 years old sound like a deal?

[Simon]

What makes you WANT an EV? The smel of leaked gas, or the cost of gas?

Both! I have a new job, I will now be driving 70 miles a day rather than 13. Electricity is cheaper. Even with a battery lease if you do the miles it is cheaper. In the summer I make my own electrons!

[mikeselectricstuff]

An advantage of the lease is warranty coverage and recovery, but on the downside it can make it harder to sell. You can buy out the lease now. You also need to make sure your insurance co. know about the battery lease, as if the car is written off, the battery needs to be removed and returned to Renault in France

Something else to consider with the Zoe is it has AC only charging, at 22, or 43kW on some models, though 43kW AC chargers are only going to decrease in numbers over time, especially now Ecotricity have annnounced they're replacing most of their old units.  This is only an issue if you'll need to charge away from home. 
Another potential issue with the Zoe is that it makes an audible whine while charging, so if home charging in a quiet area, this could be annoying.

Something else you might want to look at if you want to test the water is companies like https://on.to/ who offer all-inclusive leases on EVs with minimal commitment

This is a good mostly UK-focused EV forum that should answer any other questions. https://www.speakev.com/

[mikeselectricstuff]

What makes you WANT an EV? The smel of leaked gas, or the cost of gas?

Both! I have a new job, I will now be driving 70 miles a day rather than 13. Electricity is cheaper. Even with a battery lease if you do the miles it is cheaper. In the summer I make my own electrons!

70 miles  might be pushing it in winter unless you can charge at work

[Simon]

hm the lease at £339 a month is not so bad I guess as I'd be spending £266 on petrol alone but they offer free charging, I'd charge at home so I will still be paying for the "fuel". They go up to 1'000 miles a month then want more money. I'll be doing 1'500 or more, I suspect that won't add 50% to the lease but they sure won't be giving it away.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Some more options here for more conventional leases https://www.gridserve.com/personal-leasing/

[Simon]

What makes you WANT an EV? The smel of leaked gas, or the cost of gas?

Both! I have a new job, I will now be driving 70 miles a day rather than 13. Electricity is cheaper. Even with a battery lease if you do the miles it is cheaper. In the summer I make my own electrons!

70 miles  might be pushing it in winter unless you can charge at work

Yea I know. I'll ask but they don't park up against the building but they do go in one row parallel to it with the road between the parking and the building so maybe easier to serve if they wanted to put some in than a 2 dimensional car park.

[Simon]

https://www.gridserve.com/configurator/?variant=91246&POL=48&Mileage=20000&Maintained=false&LeadSource=1&Initial_Rental__c=9&type=pch&chargingIncluded=false

Not bad, does not include what ONTO does like maintenance and insurance so probably 6 of one and half dozen of the other. My other option is spend £11k up front plus £110 battery lease. So over 4 years that is £339/m and the car is mine forever with just £110 to pay.

[f4eru]

Zoe is a bit of an oddball with this lease of the battery. It basically devaluates the car early on, makes for cheap EVs on the second hand market, but with a chain attached to your foot. I would avoid that, but this is personal taste. With all the modern cars models coming out, and massive incentives, used EVs are now really lackluster, especially in regards to often missing fast charging, and the leaf's legendary battery degradation. What incentives do you get in UK ?

[Simon]

I think there are no incentives in the UK at the moment. This government removed everything they could that would benefit joe public. I got onto the feed in tariff for my solar panels months before it was slashed to nothing. There was a scheme but I think it has run out. I'm looking at this paying for it all myself, if there are incentives great but really I think we are hitting that tipping point where for many electric will just be a cheaper drive.

[mikeselectricstuff]

What incentives do you get in UK ?

£2500 subsidy on new EVs, Zero car tax (£20-300 for ICE depending on emissions), minimal taxation where a company provides an EV company car, exemption from emissions-related charges in some cities, discounted parking in some cities, subsidy for home charge points ( though due to requirements for this it can be cheaper to not use this)

[fcb]

I am looking to buy a used EV and my options seem to be around a £9-11'000 Nissan leaf that has done 30'000 miles or less with the battery included in the price and a Renault Zoe for less than £6'000 that has a lease on the battery.

The Nissan could be a 30KWh battery but the Zoe's are 22kWh. so yea nice to have the little more range but as this is my first I don't want to go mad and be better prepared for my second EV.

So does £5-6000 for a battery 30kWh that is 4 years old sound like a deal?

We got through 3x 22kW ZOE's doing an EV charger project a couple of years ago.  They are great to drive - but fragile, and 22kW ZOE commute 70miles in winter will leave you with severe range anxiety, especially if any of it is 60+MPH! If you can charge at work then no-issue.

#1 New Warrantied EV (Hyuandai?), #2 Used 30kW Leaf, #3 Used Zoe.

[nctnico]

I am looking to buy a used EV and my options seem to be around a £9-11'000 Nissan leaf that has done 30'000 miles or less with the battery included in the price and a Renault Zoe for less than £6'000 that has a lease on the battery.

The Nissan could be a 30KWh battery but the Zoe's are 22kWh. so yea nice to have the little more range but as this is my first I don't want to go mad and be better prepared for my second EV.

That sounds like buying a crappy Hantek DSO and wanting a real DSO experience. Why not lease a VW ID.3 ? Over here these are going like hot cakes outselling Tesla 3 to 1. Or a Skoda (budget VW)? I'm reading good reviews about those cars as well. Leasing has the advantage that you are not stuck with an EV once incentives like no road tax and other perks go away and the resale price drops significantly. Another thing to consider is that the next generation EVs with solid state batteries are about to hit the market (with Toyota probably being the first). Every EV you buy now has -what will be considered- outdated battery technology in 2 or 3 years.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Another thing to consider is that the next generation EVs with solid state batteries are about to hit the market (with Toyota probably being the first).

"About"....? AFAIK Nobody has yet demonstrated a workable solid-state EV battery manufactured at scale so I'm not holding my breath for that one. Toyota are a sad joke right now.

[f4eru]

"About"....? AFAIK Nobody has yet demonstrated a workable solid-state EV battery manufactured at scale so I'm not holding my breath for that one. Toyota are a sad joke right now.

I second that. From workable proto to scaled production (million/Y), you can count like 5 Years minimum.
Today we have no workable proto nowhere, so it may well be pushed back to much longer time, and it's not guaranteed to be viable at all.

[gmb42]

I think there are no incentives in the UK at the moment. This government removed everything they could that would benefit joe public. I got onto the feed in tariff for my solar panels months before it was slashed to nothing. There was a scheme but I think it has run out. I'm looking at this paying for it all myself, if there are incentives great but really I think we are hitting that tipping point where for many electric will just be a cheaper drive.

In Scotland you can get a 6 year interest free loan of up to £28K for a new EV (used to be 35K over 7 years).

You can also get a 5 year zero interest loan of up to £20K for a used EV.

See here.

[nctnico]

Another thing to consider is that the next generation EVs with solid state batteries are about to hit the market (with Toyota probably being the first).

"About"....? AFAIK Nobody has yet demonstrated a workable solid-state EV battery manufactured at scale so I'm not holding my breath for that one. Toyota are a sad joke right now.

Well... Toyota is the only (ICE) car manufacturer to meet the EU's CO2 emission limits. And they don't need EVs or buy emission rights to achieve that! Calling Toyota a sad joke is a sign of utter ignorance. Quite the opposite; Toyota is the only car manufacturer around which has their sh*t together to actually achieve CO2 and harmfull emissions (SOx, NOx) reduction.

If you would have followed the news around Toyota you would have learned that Toyota is aiming to show a working EV with solid state batteries this year and ramp up production in the next couple of years. No specs on battery & range yet but the first EV model is a SUV like their RAV4.

[richard.cs]

I've been driving a Zoe in the UK for a couple of years (22 kWh 2015 model). If you have any specific questions then ask away.

70 mile commute sounds a little tight on a 22 kWh model in winter, but probably doable unless you drive with a heavy right foot or live in the frozen northern wastelands (Scotland ). Our year-round average is about 4.2 miles per kWh, and in (south coast) winter the predicted range goes down to perhaps 78 miles on the guessometer. Right now (warm spring weather) after a recent fairly slow and gentle drive to west Devon and back it's predicting 108 miles from a full charge.

[Simon]

This is all why I will get something cheap. To put things into perspective I bought my ICE car when it was 4 years old for £8'000, at the time 2 year old Zoe's were going for £4'000. No that there is demand those cars have risen in price but are still cheap by comparison. I know this first one will be a bit of a throw away which is why I don't want to go all out and buy "the one" only to realize that I made a mistake.

[Towger]

There are currently reports of serious firmware upgrade issues with the VW ID.3.  Modules such as headlight control being bricked.  No doubt these will be ironed out over to time. 
Long gone are the days of checking if a bulb has blown and does it have 12v.

[Gyro]

I'd buy the EV brand with the longest warranty.   

Edit: Sorry, I re-read your OP. We bought a Niro approved used at 18 months old and had the warranty reset to the full 7 years, but it looks like it's outside your target price range. It would probably still be possible to get something with a few years warranty remaining though.

I was thinking Soul EV btw.

[tszaboo]

While I love the Leaf, and it was an honor to work on it, I wouldn't recommend it used.
Battery degradation was too much because of the air cooled battery pack. And upcoming EVs are so much more better. And cheaper. So the resale value a few years from now might be absolutely nothing. IDK if there is a tax incentive to drive electric, but I would look for a slightly different car, if I were you.
Opel Ampera (Vauxhall or whatever its called).
BMW i3 REX
Kia Optima PHEV (might be out of your price range)
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV <- you can buy this for practically free here, because of the idiotic taxation of this country.
Prius 3rd gen plug in

The latter three is not going to take you 70 miles (I think) but it will significantly reduce your fuel costs.

[Simon]

I know that i3's are good. I know a guy that has just bought his second and the 1 gen one he part exchanged after several years had a battery like new but he said they do go to town on the battery management which say the leaf does not hence the degradation. the i3 now has more miles for the same battery as they allow slightly more discharge now that they have the data to be sure.

[nctnico]

BMW i3 is an extremely tiny car though. If you need to bring some stuff or people  with you then it likely won't suffice. Small cars like that also don't handle very well but perhaps that is less of a problem with a heavy battery pack hanging under the car.

[mikeselectricstuff]

if intending to charge from solar, bear in mind that the Zoe has rather poor efficiency at low charge currents - i suspect this is at least partly due to the massive EMC filter needed for 43kW charging.