Electronics > Power/Renewable Energy/EV's

Iron Fuel: dodgy tech or legit?

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Marco:

--- Quote from: analityk on November 19, 2023, 03:45:02 pm ---One of the most efficient method to store electric energy is li-ion accumulators. Also it efficiency is under 90% (because inverters efficiency, electrodes polarisation, internal heat due to internal series resistance etc).

--- End quote ---
If you know why hydrogen is considered in the first place, this is a disingenious argument.

If you don't, seasonal/strategic storage for a majority renewable energy supply. If you want to argue lithium ion vs hydrogen, you should not at the same time change the parameters of the problem. Nuclear is not an option for the sake of that discussion.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: Marco on November 21, 2023, 02:20:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: analityk on November 19, 2023, 03:45:02 pm ---One of the most efficient method to store electric energy is li-ion accumulators. Also it efficiency is under 90% (because inverters efficiency, electrodes polarisation, internal heat due to internal series resistance etc).

--- End quote ---
If you know why hydrogen is considered in the first place, this is a disingenious argument.

If you don't, seasonal/strategic storage for a majority renewable energy supply.

--- End quote ---
Indeed. People keep being blinded by efficiency being the primary driver of choices. But it isn't. Economics are the primary driver. Beyond -ballpark- half a day, hydrogen is cheaper to store electricity compared to batteries.

analityk:
Let's consider quote from picture below. 74%. As long as production of hydrogen is relatively easy it is not efficient. Always you have to consider more parameters than only efficient but in big scale of production energy consumption is often most critical costs. Storage of hydrogen is problematic but anyone do not touch this process. In heavy industries hydrogen is energy carrier only.

Always iwhen you thinking about storage hydrogen, production of it and use it for future power generation you have to do research about NiMH power cells. This cells literally store hydrogen for future power generation.

ejeffrey:

--- Quote from: nctnico on November 21, 2023, 03:58:20 pm ---Indeed. People keep being blinded by efficiency being the primary driver of choices. But it isn't. Economics are the primary driver. Beyond -ballpark- half a day, hydrogen is cheaper to store electricity compared to batteries.

--- End quote ---

Half a day is nonsense.  If that were the case there would be grid scale hydrogen storage being produced commercially on a wide scale today.  There are battery systems installed and making money with 2-4 cycles per day from the single user up to huge grid scale installations. These are not pilot projects but really commercial installations.  That doesn't exist for hydrogen because batteries are much cheaper at the daily cycling scale. There probably is a timescale where the costs cross, but it's longer than half a day.  Certainly seasonal energy storage with current batteries doesn't seem economically viable.  Hydrogen might be, but its hard to say because right now the demand for seasonal storage is so low that almost nothing is economically viable.

jbb:
Seasonal storage is a complete b*stard of a problem; you need LOTs of energy ie huge equipment, it has to sit around doing nothing for months (and may leak out eg water evaporation in pumped hydro) and you don’t use it often - which is when you get paid.

As it happens, a plus of a coal plant is that you can have a huge pile of coal out the back & know exactly where December’s electricity is coming from. And of course the minuses are air pollution and CO2 emissions.

So maybe, maybe a large stock of special iron filings could achieve that. But it’ll have to beat Li batteries, pumped hydro (very dependent on geography) and whatever else is on the table.

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