Electronics > Power/Renewable Energy/EV's

It's happening, the power grid is changing.

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Someone:

--- Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on April 22, 2016, 09:54:31 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on April 21, 2016, 10:32:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on April 21, 2016, 11:48:49 am ---In the UK the power source of last resort, i.e. "black start" if the entire network is down, is pumped hydro.

--- End quote ---

These examples are not black start resources,....

--- End quote ---

"The Cruachan Power Station (also known as the Cruachan Dam) is a pumped-storage hydroelectric power station in Argyll and Bute, Scotland.  It is one of only four pumped storage power stations in the UK, and is capable of providing a black start capability to the National Grid."

"Another important feature of Dinorwig [pumped hydro site] is that it has been designed to assist restarting the National Grid on the occasion of a complete power failure (a black start). It includes diesel generators and large batteries which would allow the plant to restart even in the event of a complete shutdown of the grid (Dinorwig is not unique in this respect as some fossil-fuel plants are also able to self-start)."

...

--- End quote ---
Yes, thats a black start resource. We've been talking about fast starting Diesels generators for riding out interruptions and providing a fast energy supply, often coupled to flywheels to provide immediate (cycle by cycle) availability.

ConKbot:

--- Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on April 22, 2016, 09:54:31 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on April 21, 2016, 10:32:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on April 21, 2016, 11:48:49 am ---In the UK the power source of last resort, i.e. "black start" if the entire network is down, is pumped hydro.

--- End quote ---

These examples are not black start resources,....

--- End quote ---

"The Cruachan Power Station (also known as the Cruachan Dam) is a pumped-storage hydroelectric power station in Argyll and Bute, Scotland.  It is one of only four pumped storage power stations in the UK, and is capable of providing a black start capability to the National Grid."

"Another important feature of Dinorwig [pumped hydro site] is that it has been designed to assist restarting the National Grid on the occasion of a complete power failure (a black start). It includes diesel generators and large batteries which would allow the plant to restart even in the event of a complete shutdown of the grid (Dinorwig is not unique in this respect as some fossil-fuel plants are also able to self-start)."

...

--- End quote ---

Black-start isnt relevant to this fast transient capable grid improvement though. Black-start is for re-starting the grid after grid-wide outages. I.e. everything has gone black. You start the diesel backup generator at the hydro station, open up the sluices, provide excitation for the generators, provide power to a coal/NG/nuclear power station which provides base load, start getting other power stations online and re-synchronized while re-connecting load.  Hydro power (pumped or standard) is generally a good starting point for a black-start capable power station, no multi megawatt cooling pumps and air blowers, etc.  And since you're just changing a valve to adjust flow to a turbine, and don't have an equilibrium to manage, or massive amounts of water to heat or cool (nuclear/coal/nat-gas steam plants) they can be pretty responsive too, but black-start doesn't imply fast transient response, and fast transient response doesn't imply black-start

On the grid transient handling issue. Obviously for a grid-scale thing you need big things where scaling them up provides economy and doesn't cause safety issues (like storing all the energy in a massive flywheel) I wonder if flow-battery technology has improved enough to be useful for something grid-scale, without using chemicals conceived by satan himself. Or for hydro-electric power, if it would be possible to use smaller, faster-responding turbines  and a different intake design to improve transient response. I.e. a dam with 30  2 MW turbines intead of 4 15MW turbines, even if they were grouped together to keep from increasing the amount of support equipment excessively.

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