New battery technology to replace lead-acid and lithium

[Sebastian]

Hi everyone,

I heard about this really interesting new battery technology company through a friend. They developed two new types of batteries, one that can replace lead acid batteries and the other one can replace lithium batteries. Both from easy to get materials and they don't require super expensive production equipment either. I think that could be the biggest leap in the battery world since a long time.
The company is still pre-IPO, so unfortunately I can't tell you the company name or any details, but if some of you are interested, I can invite you to a Zoom presentation after you sign a NDA. Just send me a PM or email if you are interested.
Full disclosure, the presentation is a sales presentation for their shares, but of course you are not obligated to buy anything. And they do go into quiet a lot of technical details and you can also ask questions.

Sebastian

[Slh]

That sounds amazing, almost too good to be true.. Don't they have anything to replace NiMH?

I can't say that I understand the link between pre-IPO and not being able to tell us the name without an NDA. There are lots of private companies out there which aren't on the stock market and the names and products aren't secret.

[Sebastian]

Yes it really sounds amazing. Well, it's one technology for stationary applications, like lead-acid and one for more lightweight applications, so that could also replace NiMh in some cases.
It's mostly about cheaper and easier production and the use of readily available and "green" resources, not higher energy density. That would be even more amazing.

I am not an expert on the business and financial stuff, but I think it's because they are already in the process of becoming listed on the NASDAQ and they have regulations what you can and can't do during this phase.

[Stray Electron]

Hi everyone,

I heard about this really interesting new battery technology company through a friend. They developed two new types of batteries, one that can replace lead acid batteries and the other one can replace lithium batteries. Both from easy to get materials and they don't require super expensive production equipment either. I think that could be the biggest leap in the battery world since a long time.
The company is still pre-IPO, so unfortunately I can't tell you the company name or any details, but if some of you are interested, I can invite you to a Zoom presentation after you sign a NDA. Just send me a PM or email if you are interested.
Full disclosure, the presentation is a sales presentation for their shares, but of course you are not obligated to buy anything. And they do go into quiet a lot of technical details and you can also ask questions.

Sebastian

    The old saying about "things that are too good to be true" definitely describes this post.

[ejeffrey]

I am not an expert on the business and financial stuff, but I think it's because they are already in the process of becoming listed on the NASDAQ and they have regulations what you can and can't do during this phase.

This pretty much sounds like fraud.

There are a lot of regulations about companies getting ready to go public, but a lot of it is about information they must disclose, such as audited financial reports. Keeping the name of the comapny, identify of the key people, and information  about their actual products and technology secret is not part of being publicly listed.

Very early stage startups often do keep much of this information confidential when they are only dealing with private seed funding.  But then they don't solicit people on internet message boards to sign NDAs to attend a webinar.

So I strongly suggest you don't give these people any personal information or money.

[Kjelt]

Good luck with the company.
I heard too many "battery fairytales" the last ten years all from startups who had this huge fantastic innovation.
All to get more money funding for their immature research.
Ten years later still nothing. Hundreds of also big companies are trying to find the big next thing.
Lead acid has been here for 150 years, LiIon for 50 years, we are still waiting for the next generation.
In physical form please, I am tired of powerpoints.

[brucehoult]

There is also LiFePO, which has been around for 20-25 years and is now over 30% of EV batteries, mostly because they are used in recent Tesla Model 3 and Y and by BYD.

[ejeffrey]

Ten years later still nothing.

Keep in mind that I think this particular venture is nothing but an investment scam, but that is a bad and wrong attitude. There has been tremendous improvements in battery technology in the past 30 years.  Of course many startups have gone bust and many ideas have not worked out.  But also lots of progress. And 30 years ago, lithium ion was a "technology that has been researched for decades but has never gone anywhere other than a few niche applications."

[Sebastian]

Calm down guys, I am not trying to convince anyone about anything. It's just something I thought might fit here. I didn't post this primarily with the intention to bring anyone to invest. I do get a commission if someone does, but there is also a minimum investment amount that most people probably won't have lying around.
But I don't care if you just listen to to it out of curiosity. I think its pretty interesting. It's nothing crazy application wise, as I said they don't have more energy density than current solutions, but they can do what the current technology can for a far lower price and without hard to source materials. And of course you will hear the name of the company and financial details in the presentation, they are just not allowed to disclose publicly yet. I found it interesting to get a preview of something that I think will be big in a couple of years.

For a bit of background story, I met one of the founders because he visited the settlement project I live in in Paraguay. I'm from Austria originally. We will do a cooperation with them to be energy autonomous here with solar and their batteries. He also invested in some land here and in turn we are selling their shares, mostly to people who are also looking to relocate here as an investment option, but not exclusively. That's why I get a commission. But again, I don't really expect anyone here to invest, I just thought maybe some people appreciate the chance to hear about this new stuff.

[Stray Electron]

Calm down guys, I am not trying to convince anyone about anything. It's just something I thought might fit here. I didn't post this primarily with the intention to bring anyone to invest. I do get a commission if someone does, but there is also a minimum investment amount that most people probably won't have lying around.
But I don't care if you just listen to to it out of curiosity. I think its pretty interesting. It's nothing crazy application wise, as I said they don't have more energy density than current solutions, but they can do what the current technology can for a far lower price and without hard to source materials. And of course you will hear the name of the company and financial details in the presentation, they are just not allowed to disclose publicly yet. I found it interesting to get a preview of something that I think will be big in a couple of years.

For a bit of background story, I met one of the founders because he visited the settlement project I live in in Paraguay. I'm from Austria originally. We will do a cooperation with them to be energy autonomous here with solar and their batteries. He also invested in some land here and in turn we are selling their shares, mostly to people who are also looking to relocate here as an investment option, but not exclusively. That's why I get a commission. But again, I don't really expect anyone here to invest, I just thought maybe some people appreciate the chance to hear about this new stuff.

     The part in red speaks volumes about what's going on here.

   

[brucehoult]

It's nothing crazy application wise, as I said they don't have more energy density than current solutions, but they can do what the current technology can for a far lower price and without hard to source materials.

I think Toyota's recent announcements are more interesting here. That's a level-headed company (despite the crazy hydrogen experiment). When they say their new battery technology giving 1500 km range will be in 2026 models it's probably best to believe them.

[Halcyon]

Sounds scammy, or someone has had their account compromised? No posts since August then this? Also the IP address doesn't match the location and comes back as a high risk for fraud. Hmm...

[ejeffrey]

Calm down guys, I am not trying to convince anyone about anything. It's just something I thought might fit here. I didn't post this primarily with the intention to bring anyone to invest. I do get a commission if someone does, but there is also a minimum investment amount that most people probably won't have lying around.

Ok, so it's _definitely_ a scam.

And of course you will hear the name of the company and financial details in the presentation, they are just not allowed to disclose publicly yet.

Thats just not how it works.

[Simon]

It's a scam! I heard about this great thing bit it's secret. If I tell you you can't tell anyone. It's the perfect way to stop people finding out about the scam.

So they have come up with a technology to replace lithium and a technology to replace lead acid. Someone knows fuck all about batteries then!

[Siwastaja]

Bullshit. Fraud. Run.

[voltsandjolts]

I suggest this thread is deleted and the OP doesn't mention 'investments' like this again!

[nctnico]

For a bit of background story, I met one of the founders because he visited the settlement project I live in in Paraguay. I'm from Austria originally. We will do a cooperation with them to be energy autonomous here with solar and their batteries. He also invested in some land here and in turn we are selling their shares, mostly to people who are also looking to relocate here as an investment option, but not exclusively. That's why I get a commission. But again, I don't really expect anyone here to invest, I just thought maybe some people appreciate the chance to hear about this new stuff.

This sounds even more shady! Without a verifiable company name & address, naming the people involved, references to scientific papers and patent applications, nobody will take you serious on this forum.

I bet that if people contact you, the return message will say that they need to pay fees to get in touch or something. And then more fees / taxes get added for signing the NDA, etc, etc.

[Circlotron]

More new battery news than you could poke a stick at.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/batteries/

[Simon]

For a bit of background story, I met one of the founders because he visited the settlement project I live in in Paraguay. I'm from Austria originally. We will do a cooperation with them to be energy autonomous here with solar and their batteries. He also invested in some land here and in turn we are selling their shares, mostly to people who are also looking to relocate here as an investment option, but not exclusively. That's why I get a commission. But again, I don't really expect anyone here to invest, I just thought maybe some people appreciate the chance to hear about this new stuff.

So do you have a grid available? Please don't tell me that you have access to a local/national power grid but think that it is greener to "go off grid" as this totally smashes your credentials for having any reasoning ability. Batteries used to help match supply and demand are one thing, going off grid is just stupid if you have one available.

[tggzzz]

I suggest this thread is deleted and the OP doesn't mention 'investments' like this again!

No, and yes

Keep the thread as a cautionary tale and an example of how knowledgeable people here quickly unmask shady practices.

Yes, such "investments" shouldn't be mentioned again.

[Simon]

Quite, no harm in people finding that this is how other people react to such propositions, it will warn them. The whole design of this "scheme" is to keep it out of the spotlight with people afraid to tell about things they think are not right because of an NDA that is worthless if the activity is unlawful, but it's hard to know what is the law and what is not and to the mix there is this cross boarder thing.

[brucehoult]

Batteries used to help match supply and demand are one thing, going off grid is just stupid if you have one available.

Ohh, I don't know about that.

Here in far north New Zealand the daily connection charge is now around $3.50, while what they'll pay you for electricity you generate and send them is around $0.10/kWh.

So if you have enough solar panels to generate your own needs, and enough battery to get you through a daily cycle in bad weather, you need to be sending them 35 kWh a day just to pay for the connection charge.

I average about 16 kWh/day of use over the year (20/day average in Feb and July, with the odd 25/day peak) and that's with electric water heating and heat pump in summer and winter (from now to mid November, and in April, I don't use either heating or cooling, but most of the year do). If I was going off grid I could reduce that quite a lot by switching to bottled gas for heating (including water heating). Actually I already use a wood fire for winter nights (and sometimes days) -- this year I've used $260 worth of fire wood (3 m^3 at $80, plus $20 delivery fee). I already use bottled gas for cooking -- a $40 refill does about a year of cooking.

Running AC when the sun is shining seems like an ideal use of solar power.

Generators are cheap to buy (though expensive to run) for those odd times when solar isn't enough and you'd be tempted to draw from the grid.

I'd have to work out precise figures, but the main reason I haven't gone off-grid already is the capital cost and that I don't own this place and probably won't be here long term. It certainly looks attractive to me, financially!

NB all prices are NZ$, currently US$0.60, AU$0.91, £0.46.

[Simon]

I was not referring to the cost but the environmental credentials that I suspect this secret scheme is being touted with. We use grids for a reason. once upon a time a few houses at a time were connected to dedicated local power stations, I wonder why we connected them all up, once we got over "the war of the currents": the costs savings.

In the UK the daily connection charge is around £0.50. You are paying around £1.75 a day or £640 a year. So how many hours would your generator last and how much does that cost? You have not mentioned how much it costs to buy electricity.

[brucehoult]

I was not referring to the cost but the environmental credentials that I suspect this secret scheme is being touted with. We use grids for a reason. once upon a time a few houses at a time were connected to dedicated local power stations, I wonder why we connected them all up, once we got over "the war of the currents": the costs savings.

Yes, obviously cost savings and reliability and convenience.

But it seems to me the cost of solar cells plummeting in the last decades (and to a lesser extent batteries) is changing this. In the 1970s it cost maybe US$75/W of generation capacity, now it's maybe $0.15 to $0.20.

In the UK the daily connection charge is around £0.50. You are paying around £1.75 a day or £640 a year. So how many hours would your generator last and how much does that cost? You have not mentioned how much it costs to buy electricity.

Generator is for very rare use -- a few dozen hours a year maybe. I see a NZ-made GT Power 3.8 kW electric start generator is $1100 (£500). Chinese ones are even cheaper. Honda costs more. Probably you get what you pay for. My average use over a day is about 1 kW in the worst summer and winter weather, so actually with a battery I could get away with a much smaller (cheaper) generator. But 3.8 kW is probably enough to cover most peaks even without a battery.

My current electricity prices from the grid are $0.7278 (£0.34) peak, $0.3639 (£0.17) off peak.

My daily charge to be connected to the grid is about 50% of my average cost for the actual electricity.

[NiHaoMike]

I say that the next big thing to invest in with regards to residential energy is automated load management. The hardware to do so is extremely cheap nowadays. It would pay for itself really quickly if varying prices and/or demand charges apply. Then it would be possible to run simulations against the data to determine how much solar and battery would be a worthwhile investment. With on site renewables and/or storage installed, further optimizations can be done in real time.

As far as batteries go, the next promising one is sodium ion batteries, some of those are already being tested by hobbyists. I wouldn't be surprised if they go mainstream in a few years.