Electronics > Power/Renewable Energy/EV's

Nissan E-Power. The ultimate green washing?

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ppTRN:
It is advertised as the "Electric car with no plug", essentially a thermal engine is providing the power to the inverter for motion and the power to reload the battery. It is NOT used to directly drive the car. So wait, i am using a relatively inefficient thermal engine to charge (with some losses) a car battery? Wouln't be better to just power the car via the thermal engine? I do not understend how this usage of a thermal motor to charge a battery is more efficient than just use it to run the car. Am I missing something ( i really think so, not that much of an expert in terms of cars) or is it just the ultimate green washing?

sokoloff:
I haven’t studied that car’s engineering, but I think the reasonable measures are “how efficient is it measured in liters-per-100km or mpg?” and “is there any service benefit over the lifetime of the car?”

I think it will be easy to win on the second, but the first is what really matters.

Siwastaja:
You are, what, 25 years late? What you describe is the ancient, classic hybrid vehicle, with no plug-in charging. It works and it has always worked due to the fact that internal combustion engine runs at colossally bad efficiency in city traffic conditions (accelerations, idling, etc.), so running the ICE smoothly in optimum conditions, charging batteries with it, and then use that charge to drive an electric motor has better efficiency - plus you can harvest braking energy, too.

These classic hybrids are only useful in city traffic (and occasional longer trips do not hurt too much). Although, I don't see a lot of point in such a 1990's retro thing in 2011+11+1, plug-in hybrids have been available for ages already and even pure EVs are really getting practical.

(I did not check what "Nissan E-Power" is, just replied based to your description.)

langwadt:
at least two things,

a combustion engine is most efficient when running at a constant speed at rated load, when it is only used for charging you keep it at it's optimum

A car only needs about 15-20hp go drive at constant highway speed, but most people expect a few 100hp so acceleration isn't painfully slow, so in a classic ICE car the engine oversized and always running at a fraction of it's rated load. With a hybrid the ICE can be sized for the average load and the battery provides the peak power for acceleration

coppice:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on May 20, 2023, 01:31:06 pm ---You are, what, 25 years late? What you describe is the ancient, classic hybrid vehicle, with no plug-in charging. It works and it has always worked due to the fact that internal combustion engine runs at colossally bad efficiency in city traffic conditions (accelerations, idling, etc.), so running the ICE smoothly in optimum conditions, charging batteries with it, and then use that charge to drive an electric motor has better efficiency - plus you can harvest braking energy, too.

These classic hybrids are only useful in city traffic (and occasional longer trips do not hurt too much). Although, I don't see a lot of point in such a 1990's retro thing in 2011+11+1, plug-in hybrids have been available for ages already and even pure EVs are really getting practical.

(I did not check what "Nissan E-Power" is, just replied based to your description.)

--- End quote ---
Its not quite the classic Toyota type of hybrid. This new Nissan system never drives the wheels directly from the engine. The engine is a pure battery charger, and the driving of the car is purely electric. It seems like that is never going to achieve the efficiency of the Toyota scheme, so the goal is not clear. Is it supposed to be cheaper to build or lighter than the Toyota system, and get a win that way?

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