Power Line Conditioners for AV Equipment?

[Someone]

I know that the wave I see on a scope is visually different between the grid and the off-grid inverter.  The grid is not a perfect sine way, it's been bent, squashed and looks just a little odd.

and then the important bit, do any of those characteristics make a difference to the function/capabilities/capacity/usefulness of any of your loads?

[paulca]

I know that the wave I see on a scope is visually different between the grid and the off-grid inverter.  The grid is not a perfect sine way, it's been bent, squashed and looks just a little odd.

and then the important bit, do any of those characteristics make a difference to the function/capabilities/capacity/usefulness of any of your loads?

Honestly.  Less and less and usually it was only transients.  Most of those are gone as they don't pass SMPSUs so well.  In the 80s and 90s, you would routinely here "pops" and "clicks" from the neighbour turning on and off high loads. 

It was far more promonent in the days of CRT TVs.  When the neighbour had their lawn mower out or was using their drill, you watched the motor on the screen.  You seen the unshielded HT lead on the neighbours car... and you heard it on your amplifier.

Though I am invoking both mains interference and RF interference there.

Actually.... somewhere around 2018 I had a monitor which would go black screen everytime time my fridge cycled on.  A new HDMI cable fixed it though.

Which... is a good segway to the issues you can face with AC power circuits in a house.  Ground potential.  When the fridge kicks in it's inductive compressor there is a load spike which creates a voltage drop on the neutral.  This drop is circuit local, so across the house there is a potential between different "N" measurement points.  Current flows.  That spike (not being a benign 50Hz) couples between conductors and creates noise on other grounds between devices.

[mtwieg]

I've done more digging around, and it seems there isn't a single technology that one can call "power conditioner" or "power line conditioner".

These are catch-all terms for devices that perform one or more of a set of many functions (voltage stabilization, frequency stabilization, EMI filtering, surge protection, etc). Which function(s) are necessary are entirely dependent on the application.

It's not like if you say "Class D Amplifier" you know exactly what you're getting.

Interesting tangent: the term class D amplifier originally referred to oscillators, inverters, and RF power amplifiers*, and most engineers who work with such applications still use "class D" to describe them. The fact that the term "class D" was also applied to PWM audio amplifiers years later is an unfortunate nuisance.

*Baxandall P. J., "TRANSISTOR SINE-WAVE LC OSCILLATORS", 1960, doi.org/10.1049/pi-b-2.1959.0141

[Fried Chicken]

It was far more promonent in the days of CRT TVs.  When the neighbour had their lawn mower out or was using their drill, you watched the motor on the screen.  You seen the unshielded HT lead on the neighbours car... and you heard it on your amplifier.

Though I am invoking both mains interference and RF interference there.

I have a Plasma TV, and I think getting a cable and putting it on a different outlet from the reset of the (hungry) AV equipment produced a sharper less sparkly picture.

That said, high quality AV equipment built for home use by reputable companies is typically designed to handle the gamut of home power outlets.  Maybe if you stray from the large corporations to more specialized boutique suppliers, they don't have the engineering breadth to deal with rigorous engineering/testing to mitigate that.  Maybe this is where the "audiofoolery" comes from - someone with some exotic amp does notice a difference, idk.  Phono can be particularly pissy since the amplified signals are so small.  That, and a total misunderstanding of the engineering, however:

Engineers routinely underestimate biology, and the ability to detect/notice minute differences in audio/video/whatever.  People who haven't experienced the highest levels of audio also underestimate what can be achieved when all the small details are accounted for and how glorious excellent sound really is (audio quality has nosedived - we have an entire generation who have never experienced truly excellent audio).  Regardless, this isn't what this thread is about.

My equipment is high end large corporation, I have not seen any evidence so far of interference making its way through to the outputs, however I did have to swap out the home theater LED lighting for incandescent b/c it would flicker with the music.

I've done more digging around, and it seems there isn't a single technology that one can call "power conditioner" or "power line conditioner".

These are catch-all terms for devices that perform one or more of a set of many functions (voltage stabilization, frequency stabilization, EMI filtering, surge protection, etc). Which function(s) are necessary are entirely dependent on the application.

Best answer so far, thank you.

It's not like if you say "Class D Amplifier" you know exactly what you're getting.

Interesting tangent: the term class D amplifier originally referred to oscillators, inverters, and RF power amplifiers*, and most engineers who work with such applications still use "class D" to describe them. The fact that the term "class D" was also applied to PWM audio amplifiers years later is an unfortunate nuisance.

*Baxandall P. J., "TRANSISTOR SINE-WAVE LC OSCILLATORS", 1960, doi.org/10.1049/pi-b-2.1959.0141

Oh God why.....

[synccond]

I have a Plasma TV, and I think getting a cable and putting it on a different outlet from the reset of the (hungry) AV equipment produced a sharper less sparkly picture.

A much more reasonable explanation for your experience is a poorly built TV.  Also the absence of double-blind testing automatically calls into question your experience.

My audio equipment is all DIY, and definitely does not change its sound quality when the voltage changes from 122V to 110V.  If it did, time to redesign the power supply to something that actually works.

[Fried Chicken]

A much more reasonable explanation for your experience is a poorly built TV.  Also the absence of double-blind testing automatically calls into question your experience.

This is an incredibly stupid statement.

[mtwieg]

This is an incredibly stupid statement.

Well there really isn't a plausible explanation for picture quality being dependent on power quality (unless maybe you're using an ancient tube-based display). For a properly built modern, fully digital display, power quality issues would manifest as the display simply shutting down randomly (or being permanently damaged).

The display cable (HDMI/DP/etc) is far more likely to be the culprit if you're seeing inconsistent picture quality.

[Fried Chicken]

This video explores some options and gives me a much better idea about my original question:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9JinSfCKuNQ