Power plugs "Extensive use"

[Bloch]

Hi


As you may already know there the are many different plugs and electrical rules around the world.
Here in Denmark this plug is more or less standard 16A 230V AC
But now I just learned that 16A is only for "Normal use" ??
From the standard DS 60884-2-D1 that should be the same as IEC 60884-1

You must always charge a socket with up to 6 A regardless
rated current at repeated, continuous load on
more than 2 hours a day.
You must load the socket with a greater load than
6 A if you make a concrete assessment of the installation,
see how under the box.



k1: 16 A Sockets mounted with 1.5 mm2
k2: Recessed mounting in insulated wall
k3: Tempered brass pins on the plug

I think it crazy that it up to the use to user to know all that to be safe and inside the rules.


Is that the same in for example USA ?

[Bloch]

Here is the tabel

[Bloch]

I think they them self did think this was dangerous and made this sige page warning.

[f4eru]

You can get sockets (German or french style) that are for 16A continuous ( for EV charging)
test is 5h @ 26A with limited temp. increase on contacts.

google Hager witty  or Legrand Greenup.
Not sure if they make a Danish version.

https://www.elektroshopwagner.de/product_info.php/info/p232923_Legrand-SAT00194-Green-up-Steckdose--Aufputz--IP66.html

[ejeffrey]

In the US generally the continuous load should be limited to 80% of the max rating.  So if you have a 16A sustained load you need wiring rated for 20A.  I don't know all the details and it gets more complicated in commercial settings where it is more common to have an entire panel for lighting that will be on for 8 hours straight.

80% seems reasonable, reducing a 16A circuit to 6A seems strange. 

[HB9EVI]

in CH the maximal rating for the most common domestic outlets is 13A on 1,5mm2; 16A requires wiring with 2,5mm2 gauge, also there are different outlets for 16A. these ratings are sustained load.

[richard.cs]

Regarding the US 80% thing, that's down to a difference in how a rating is defined. In US practice breakers trip at their rated current so loading a circuit to 100% would cause nuisance tripping. In European practice the rated current is that at which they hold indefinitely. The difference then follows through into cable and connector ratings and so on.

[mzzj]

You can get sockets (German or french style) that are for 16A continuous ( for EV charging)
test is 5h @ 26A with limited temp. increase on contacts.

google Hager witty  or Legrand Greenup.
Not sure if they make a Danish version.

https://www.elektroshopwagner.de/product_info.php/info/p232923_Legrand-SAT00194-Green-up-Steckdose--Aufputz--IP66.html

At least here in Finland they recommend CEE17 "Caravan outlet/plug" for EV charging from 230v 16A supply.
CEE7 "Shuko plug" chargers are typically  limited to 8 or 10 amps in Europe depending on moon phase and country.   
AFAIK CEE17 is used pretty much everywhere  European  marinas and caravan camp grounds.

[Bloch]

Quote from: mzzj on Today at 07:52:21 am

At least here in Finland they recommend CEE17 "Caravan outlet/plug" for EV charging from 230v 16A supply.
CEE7 "Shuko plug" chargers are typically  limited to 8 or 10 amps in Europe depending on moon phase and country.   
AFAIK CEE17 is used pretty much everywhere  European  marinas and caravan camp grounds.

I agree that the "Industrial plugs" CEE17 are the best way to go. At least here in Europa.

But I was just chocked that the "Danish" plugs just did not deliver that the data normally shown. There should at lest had been a warning on the box. As I dont think it an common knowledge   

[nightfire]

In germany it is the same. Common Schuko Plugs are designed to be able to be used at 10A continuous load, and 16A with some short peaks, like heating up an electrical oven etc.
For industrial usage and in marinas the CEE17 (also known as "Campingstecker" oder Cekon blau in Germany) is recommended, as it is able to be used with 16A continous load.

Also the derating and fusing of several types of outlets or lighting fixtures is a topic that regularly is discussed among technicians, because due to the german way of standards (VDE) and the different kind of tolerances that have to be taken into account when doing some sizing/calculations it is not easy to take everything into account...
What contributes to this situation is the way the VDE-standards are written by lots of (Sub)Commitees and not everything is well synchronized with each other.

So depending on the way a cable is mounted, VDE 0298 specifies the maximum permanent current it is allowed to carry. Then the manufacturer of the switchgear (important for lighting fixtures) also rates his equipment, usually for a maximum of 10A, not 16...
Then diameter and length have to be taken into account, so that at the end in case of a short circuit the prospective short-circuit-current is high enough to be able to trip the breaker/fuse in a timely manner. Depending on the characteristic of the breaker end the cable used you could end up theoretically with a fuse that allows less than 10A permanent load...

On another note, I am a big fan of CEE17 plugs- I also like to use them in the server room at work, and with my last employer (Datacenter) we had a busbar configuration running in the raised floor and from the distribution boxes we had CEE17 outlets, and then the IEC 320-C13 outlets for the servers in the racks were fitted with CEE plugs. Looks a bit clumsy, but works like a charm. Since then, I am a big fan of Mennekes plugs, especially those with the standard screw contacts.

[f4eru]

Hello,

Yes, P17 make a lot of sense, 1 phase or 3-phase, 16 or 32A...
Unfortunately, in France they are forbidden to install in homes for EV charging.
(not forbidden to use once installed).

(crazy laws and norms, written by wallbox selling lobbyists)
But a lot of people install them anyway.