Author Topic: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...  (Read 4241 times)

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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2019, 02:18:37 pm »
The first error is that Dave is comparing a commercial off-the-shelf product with something which is in the experimental stage. Secondly he doesn't include costs to built a regular road. If the idea is outright idiotic companies with loads of smart engineers and business analysts aren't going to invest millions. I'm not going to form an opinion based on some guy ranting on Youtube.

So you think Dave is just some guy ranting on YouTube?  Do you think you are smarter or are better qualified than Dave is?   Anyone else on Dave's web site think Dave is just "some guy" who doesn't know what he's talking about?

Let's see if we can try and educate you again with a few videos.  You do realize solar roadways in the Netherlands, isn't that where you are was a complete bust?  Any idea how much of your tax payer money was wasted?    How many times do you need to be told solar roadways are complete bullshit?  Why are you so easily deceived by the lies about solar roadways,  biofuels and hydrogen powered cars?




https://youtu.be/6-ZSXB3KDF0

https://youtu.be/GtkbioiQHmA

https://youtu.be/HOZBrHqTJk4

https://youtu.be/obS6TUVSZds

https://youtu.be/RjbKYNcmFUw






 

Offline george80

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2019, 03:48:06 pm »

If the idea is outright idiotic companies with loads of smart engineers and business analysts aren't going to invest millions.

You really try hard at being ignorant and clueless don't you? I really wonder if your comments are not a set up to get a rise out of people because it really does seem hard to imagine someone being pig headed and stubborn in the face of all the facts and evidence you have thrown at you or why you even keep coming back here and copping the flack you bring on yourself repeatedly.
Just in case anyone else is stupid enough to believe the things you do I'll play along....


You also have NO concept how big biz and gubbermint grants and subsidies work. It does not matter if it works or not, it just has to be something the gubbermint of the day can flag wave and  say " Look what we are doing to save the world" and they will buy it with tax payer money.

I would bet my arse there was an expensive presentation shown to the decision makers with all sorts of Feelgood bullshit and never was the figure of production shown or asked about. If it were, it was spin doctored to buggery like saying  it's 336KW capacity which is totally and utterly irrelevant to it's OUTPUT. I have 25Kw of panels on my roof and today I'll be lucky to produce more than 10 Kw in total given the weather. The difference is on a sunny day I can produce 70Kw which is an efficiency a road will NEVER do.

YOU are exactly the sort of person these things are designed to appeal to. Those that will champion the idea no matter how much fact there is or comes out that says it doesen't work. I'll bet my arse you are also a Tesla/ Elon  worshipper that won't have a word said about them and swallows all their endless BS as well. Good news for you, there is about to be a whole truckload more bullshit being delivered soon.

I noticed in one of the pics in the vid where they were installing a solar pathway there was a line of trees next to it that were casting shade on the path they were laying.   :palm:
Did you also notice in another pic of the roadway, the inverter boxes mounted along side?


Quote
I'm not going to form an opinion based on some guy ranting on Youtube.

Yet you will argue to the death that biofuels will save the world based on some marketing hype / press release from companies that are not doing squat to live up to their promises they made years ago and will ignore all facts and real data related to that yet won't believe the facts and figures from real world situations you want to champion. 
How predictable.

If  Did a YT presentation and declared biofuels will save the world and put the most flawed numbers forward you wouldn't be able to link to it fast enough and hold it out as proof of your fantasy's.

I'll give it to you, must take some sort of special to be so stubbornly ignorant and close minded to anything you don't want to hear.
You have qualities that could make you a very wealthy man if you directed them the right way instead of kidding yourself and trying to fool others that black is white as well.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2019, 09:56:08 pm »
You also have NO concept how big biz and gubbermint grants and subsidies work. It does not matter if it works or not, it just has to be something the gubbermint of the day can flag wave and  say " Look what we are doing to save the world" and they will buy it with tax payer money.
Clearly you have no idea how government subsidies work nowadays. At least in countries with a sensible government. The times that companies could get boatloads of money from governments for some stupid idea or just to keep a company going to save jobs are long gone. Bio-fuels do get subsidies in the US but these aren't free handouts. The US government requires progress and the companies involved have to come up with 60% to 70% of the money and the subsidies are only provided to do research and get to the stage of mass production. The solar roadways in France and the Netherlands: similar concept. Part subsidized but the companies involved are paying at least half themselves. If a project gets more sketchy then the subsidies get lower. The hyperloop is a good example. The Dutch government isn't going to invest a dime at this point but is willing to facilitate to find test locations and zoning / building permits.

All this information is publicly available so you could have looked that up yourself.
Quote
If  Did a YT presentation and declared biofuels will save the world and put the most flawed numbers forward you wouldn't be able to link to it fast enough and hold it out as proof of your fantasy's.
No, because your numbers will be wrong and not supported by facts. Over here one the news items was a Belgian professor who calculated an EV would only start to save CO2 after 700000km. I didn't link to that in the other thread (now locked by Simon for some reason) because the numbers are obviously wrong.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 09:59:57 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2019, 10:53:53 pm »
You also have NO concept how big biz and gubbermint grants and subsidies work. It does not matter if it works or not, it just has to be something the gubbermint of the day can flag wave and  say " Look what we are doing to save the world" and they will buy it with tax payer money.
Clearly you have no idea how government subsidies work nowadays. At least in countries with a sensible government. The times that companies could get boatloads of money from governments for some stupid idea or just to keep a company going to save jobs are long gone. Bio-fuels do get subsidies in the US but these aren't free handouts. The US government requires progress and the companies involved have to come up with 60% to 70% of the money and the subsidies are only provided to do research and get to the stage of mass production. The solar roadways in France and the Netherlands: similar concept. Part subsidized but the companies involved are paying at least half themselves. If a project gets more sketchy then the subsidies get lower. The hyperloop is a good example. The Dutch government isn't going to invest a dime at this point but is willing to facilitate to find test locations and zoning / building permits.

All this information is publicly available so you could have looked that up yourself.
Quote
If  Did a YT presentation and declared biofuels will save the world and put the most flawed numbers forward you wouldn't be able to link to it fast enough and hold it out as proof of your fantasy's.
No, because your numbers will be wrong and not supported by facts. Over here one the news items was a Belgian professor who calculated an EV would only start to save CO2 after 700000km. I didn't link to that in the other thread (now locked by Simon for some reason) because the numbers are obviously wrong.

Dide the reason locked the thread is because of all of the false information you have been posting.

Now you come to this thread insult the owner of this web site and host of the EV videos.  Dude do you have any idea how many millions of people have viewed Dave’s to learn.  Why can’t you?

Early on I thought you were intelligent and had valuable information to share.  In evert post you make it is either a bunch of crap or you say you don’t beleive the science or math.  Dude this forum is all about science and math.  If you don’t understand get educated.  But it appears you have a closed mind.  That’s not what science is about.  Science is finding out the truth about the world we live in.  And so is this forum and Dave’s web site.

Stop being a troll and recognize Dave is not some guy ranting on YouTube.   Dave is an excellent teacher and every one of his rants are supported with science and math.  Dave is also willing to make corrections and change his mind when presented with creditable scientific evidence.  Why can’t you?  Until then you can’t be trusted and are nothing but a troll of the worst kind.

 

Offline S13

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2019, 12:04:45 am »
From a safety point of view im going to add another concern with solar roads and that is grip in general.
As a motorcyclist i already have to avoid potholes, manhole covers, tar stripes, white stripes etc, because they get too slippery when its raining or when placed in corners.

So how will these panels perform in this regard? When that tiny layer of roughness has been grinded off from previous traffic and all you are left with is a polished slippery surface!? No way am i going to ride a motorcycle over that stuff... Can they guarantee equal performance to tarmac over years of abuse? Because that is what it takes!
This is not some kind of nice to have feature, this is a "must have" requirement. Unlike the stripes and manhole covers in tarmac, there is no avoiding when you are driving on a road that is made entirely from solar panels...

As a car owner you might think, well its ok if my breaking distance increases a bit, wooptidooo... But as a motorcyclist you are playing with your life. And a single wheel losing grip on a piece of polished surface means you are going down.

So im not saying this to bash the idea based on this fear because right now i dont know how the grip of these panels holds up over time. But as an engineer you have to admit this is a HUGE risk, one that would need to be investigated thoroughly before you would even think to implement this on a public road.     
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2019, 12:38:39 am »
From a safety point of view im going to add another concern with solar roads and that is grip in general.
As a motorcyclist i already have to avoid potholes, manhole covers, tar stripes, white stripes etc, because they get too slippery when its raining or when placed in corners.

So how will these panels perform in this regard? When that tiny layer of roughness has been grinded off from previous traffic and all you are left with is a polished slippery surface!? No way am i going to ride a motorcycle over that stuff... Can they guarantee equal performance to tarmac over years of abuse? Because that is what it takes!

So im not saying this to bash the idea based on this fear because right now i dont know how the grip of these panels holds up over time. But as an engineer you have to admit this is a HUGE risk, one that would need to be investigated thoroughly before you would even think to implement this on a public road.
I agree the road surface should be reliable and offer consistent (which doesn't mean good perse but predictable) grip. Even in a car I don't want it any other way. Then again older tarmac tends to get slippery especially when wet. AFAIK the French did some very extensive wear testing on their solar roadway. Perhaps we shouldn't think of solar roadways as if they are glass solar panels with some grid stuck on top. There is more to it and from an engineering point of view it is interesting. A spin-off could be alternative ways to make road surfaces without needing tar.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline george80

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2019, 01:44:18 am »
From a safety point of view im going to add another concern with solar roads and that is grip in general.

Something that has struck me as well.
I ride a bike but I would be just as concerned driving a car. People here seem to loose the plot in the rain. They either drive like snails causing problems or they drive like maniacs. Never to suit the conditions.

Any type of surface that affords grip is going to disperse the light and lower transmission levels. Not a desirable thing with solar. From the pics I have seen, the panels appear pretty clear so I am left thinking the grip levels are very low. In any case, whatever treatment is afforded the panels, it's going to be short lived.

Bitumen or concrete is by nature made of aggregate and binder with a consistent grip level no matter how worn. There is no way to coat a panel with anything that won't wear off or polish and still transmit light.  Closest thing I can think of is some sort of resin.  You could put bubbles in it which will wear through and roughen the surface but that would kill light transmission. Any particles, even cut Diamonds, are going to do the same. Any sort of plastic is going to wear or wear smooth, glass is ice skating.
I have ridden my bike into reception joints a few times with polished floors.  You basically can't turn much more than you can steer without any leaning at all and at a pace you have to have your feet down.  Any faster or tighter than that and the thing goes from under you and that's on a DRY floor.  Even smooth concrete floors in workshops and carparks can be a trap.

Normal roads are slippery enough when wet, especially when it first rains and the oil hasn't washed off.
Can you imagine what that would be like on Panels??   :palm:
Cars won't be able to stay in a straight line without sliding off!  If you had to brake, you'd only come to a stop when you hit the rest of the pile up in front of you.

A bike would be sheer Suicide!
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2019, 01:49:51 am »
Probably pretty much similar like concrete roads you still find in Germany. When it rains a little bit these become slippery and treacherous.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline george80

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2019, 01:58:04 am »

Clearly you have no idea how government subsidies work nowadays. At least in countries with a sensible government.

No such thing as a country with a sensible Gubbermint. If they were sensible they wouldn't be looking at shit like this to start with.
And yes, I have an excellent Idea how they work. My wife works for one and sees how the decisions are made..... often with kickbacks and other benefits.  There is ALWAYS some vested interest in these decisions even if it is legit like campaign donations.

I'm a afraid you live in a utopian world..... well we know you do and we also know you just plain kid yourself so unfortunately, once again you are completely Naieve and ignorant.


Quote
The times that companies could get boatloads of money from governments for some stupid idea or just to keep a company going to save jobs are long gone.

 :-DD  you are sometimes a very funny fellow.
You HAVE to be saying shit like this to be entertaining because no one in their right minds could possibly believe fairy tales like that.
Gubbermints bail companies out all the time for that very reason!! You can't have your head shoved that far up your nether regions Surely!

Quote
All this information is publicly available so you could have looked that up yourself.

 :palm:
The irony of telling someone to look up something that would show how wrong you are is beyond belief.

Quote
I didn't link to that in the other thread (now locked by Simon for some reason)

I'd say the clear reason was he got upset because not everyone was gullible enough to drink the green Koolaide he was getting himself in a tizzy  trying to sell EV's to everyone as if the future of the world depended on it.  When it was clear not everyone was buying it, IE, You me and some others,  he got upset. 

Typical of the green washed.
When their yelling and stamping their feet doesn't work they get upset and take their bat and ball and go home so the game is over.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 02:11:35 am by george80 »
 

Offline george80

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2019, 02:10:47 am »

And so is this forum and Dave’s web site.

Ha!
I didn't even realise.
Watched many of his vids but found this site thorough a link else where.
I was wondering who that Dave was you kept refering to.  Now I know!

Anyway, lets not be swayed by a guy " ranting" on you tube showing creditable and verifyable figures making factual conclusions, so much smarter to believe polititians trying to get some media attention and the companies selling things they stand to make millions from.  They have no vested interests but that other guy, well look at the vast fortunes he has to gain by disparaging them.

He could make..... $30-50  out of his videos..... eventually.

With motivations like that, pretty clear to see who has the most to gain out of these things and whom has the most reason to lie through their teeth...... and it's not the guy doing the Vids.

Kinda narrows the options down some doesen't it?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2019, 02:42:24 am »
Don't go around pretending anything you see on Youtube is true. For example take people ranting against vaccinating children. Ignorance is bliss... meanwhile not vaccination children causes outbreaks of diseases which have been unheard of for decades.
 
A long time ago someone showed me a Youtube video which showed drinking glasses in a hotel room where washed in the room and not taken to the kitchen. At some point the comment of the creator of the video went like: see how the cleaning lady sprays something on the glasses from a bottle which has a label saying 'do not drink'.  My first thought: ofcourse you shouldn't drink soap  :palm: . What kind of idiot puts such a video together?

Back to solar roadways: do you guys really think the companies investing in solar roadways didn't do the same calculations Dave did right at the start?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 02:49:51 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline apis

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2019, 02:52:04 am »
Back to solar roadways: do you guys really think the companies investing in solar roadways didn't do the same calculations Dave did right at the start?
Yes. Having lots of money doesn't make people less irrational.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2019, 03:05:11 am »
Back to solar roadways: do you guys really think the companies investing in solar roadways didn't do the same calculations Dave did right at the start?
Yes. Having lots of money doesn't make people less irrational.
It was a rethorical question. Over the years I've been around lots of start-ups and companies going in a different direction. 9 out of 10 have a good business plan and take development step-by-step before committing large sums of money. There is nothing irrational about it; due diligence to the max. Usually the garage style companies are the ones not succeeding due to poor market investigation and not thinking ahead on how to make money from something.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2019, 03:11:23 am »
From a safety point of view im going to add another concern with solar roads and that is grip in general.
As a motorcyclist i already have to avoid potholes, manhole covers, tar stripes, white stripes etc, because they get too slippery when its raining or when placed in corners.

So how will these panels perform in this regard? When that tiny layer of roughness has been grinded off from previous traffic and all you are left with is a polished slippery surface!? No way am i going to ride a motorcycle over that stuff... Can they guarantee equal performance to tarmac over years of abuse? Because that is what it takes!
This is not some kind of nice to have feature, this is a "must have" requirement. Unlike the stripes and manhole covers in tarmac, there is no avoiding when you are driving on a road that is made entirely from solar panels...

As a car owner you might think, well its ok if my breaking distance increases a bit, wooptidooo... But as a motorcyclist you are playing with your life. And a single wheel losing grip on a piece of polished surface means you are going down.

So im not saying this to bash the idea based on this fear because right now i dont know how the grip of these panels holds up over time. But as an engineer you have to admit this is a HUGE risk, one that would need to be investigated thoroughly before you would even think to implement this on a public road.   

The. Roadsurface is glasss. They need $50M to develope it.  Since it’s glass it can reflect light like a mirror and how do tiny think tires will grip when wet?  (Not well)

Then there’s the solar output.  If I remember correctly if no cars cover the panel it will produce $7.00 of electricty per year.  That’s 60s times less than roof top solar.  Live where there’s snow?  The solar roadway in China was and at night when no one was looking a team of sweepers come out to sweep off the snow.

Have you watched Dave’s videos? It gets even worse which is why Dave created 3 video explaining why solar roadways are in his words complete bullshit.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2019, 03:29:51 am »
Don't go around pretending anything you see on Youtube is true. For example take people ranting against vaccinating children. Ignorance is bliss... meanwhile not vaccination children causes outbreaks of diseases which have been unheard of for decades.
 
A long time ago someone showed me a Youtube video which showed drinking glasses in a hotel room where washed in the room and not taken to the kitchen. At some point the comment of the creator of the video went like: see how the cleaning lady sprays something on the glasses from a bottle which has a label saying 'do not drink'.  My first thought: ofcourse you shouldn't drink soap  :palm: . What kind of idiot puts such a video together?

Back to solar roadways: do you guys really think the companies investing in solar roadways didn't do the same calculations Dave did right at the start?

Dude this is Dave.  This is not “some guy”, it’s Dave. Dave who owns this web site and forums.  Dave, the Dave in EEVblog.

Why are you on Dave’s forums?

 

Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2019, 03:33:20 am »
So you are going to a baker to buy meat? Dave is an electronic engineer. Not a civil, mechanical engineer or materials expert.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 03:35:02 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2019, 03:37:52 am »
Dude this is Dave.  This is not “some guy”, it’s Dave. Dave who owns this web site and forums.  Dave, the Dave in EEVblog.

Why are you on Dave’s forums?

I don't think there is a requirement to worship Dave in order to qualify for posting on this forum.  :P

In my case, while I do enjoy Dave's videos, I am on this forum mainly to benefit from the collective experience of a larger group of qualified electronics professionals and hobbyists.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2019, 04:28:36 am »
Back to solar roadways: do you guys really think the companies investing in solar roadways didn't do the same calculations Dave did right at the start?
Yes. Having lots of money doesn't make people less irrational.
It was a rethorical question. Over the years I've been around lots of start-ups and companies going in a different direction. 9 out of 10 have a good business plan and take development step-by-step before committing large sums of money. There is nothing irrational about it; due diligence to the max. Usually the garage style companies are the ones not succeeding due to poor market investigation and not thinking ahead on how to make money from something.

Your ignorance is shining bright once again.  If you have been around start ups you would know most do not get funded.  They 9 out of 10 might. Have a good business plan, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.  You say you’ve been around a lot of startups which would also mean you have been around a lot of failures. 

How wrong can you be?  Garage style companies not succeeding?  What the hack are you talking about.  It’s people working out of there garage which are some of the largest company's in the world today. 

You have got to be a troll. I
 

Online The Soulman

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2019, 11:47:39 am »
Ok, I've been following this discussion for the last couple of days but now it's time for:

(--tactical face-palm image link that doesn't work--)  :palm:

Question: I'm personally going to invest €5k on a solar setup for my house, where should I put my panels to gain maximum if any
economical and ecological benefit, on the slightly sloped south east facing roof of my house or in my partially shaded driveway??


I´m not against wasting (a little bit) of government money on experimental research for new technology.
But unless we ran out of any alternative space to place solar panels (unlikely), or a breakthrough in PV development
happens that would increase efficiency by an order of magnitude by cooling the panels with the thermal mass of being attached to the ground (unlikely) AND overcome the issues that any road-surface needs to overcome, such as providing sufficient grip when: contaminated, wet and or frozen AND there is feasible way to maintain the road and the accompanying infrastructure.
Until then solar roadways are BullShit whit a capital B and S or BS for short.

edit: broken image link
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 11:57:45 am by The Soulman »
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2019, 11:52:36 am »
Well for starters my roof is much more valuable with windows in them than with solar panels on top. It adds an extra room to the home which can be qualified as living space. Given the prices of houses in the NL the ROI of those windows is pretty good.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online The Soulman

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2019, 12:09:12 pm »
Well for starters my roof is much more valuable with windows in them than with solar panels on top. It adds an extra room to the home which can be qualified as living space. Given the prices of houses in the NL the ROI of those windows is pretty good.

Ok, could that translate in:

Well for starters my roof road is much more valuable with windows tarmac in them than with solar panels on top. It adds an extra room ease of maintenance to the home road which can be qualified as living space beneficial. Given the prices of houses roads in the NL the ROI of those windows tarmac is pretty good.
 

Online The Soulman

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2019, 12:10:28 pm »
?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2019, 12:44:12 pm »
Well for starters my roof is much more valuable with windows in them than with solar panels on top. It adds an extra room to the home which can be qualified as living space. Given the prices of houses in the NL the ROI of those windows is pretty good.
Ok, could that translate in:
No, it means that the knee-jerk reaction to put solar panels on roofs is something people should think about twice.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2019, 12:55:17 pm »
Well for starters my roof is much more valuable with windows in them than with solar panels on top. It adds an extra room to the home which can be qualified as living space. Given the prices of houses in the NL the ROI of those windows is pretty good.
Ok, could that translate in:
No, it means that the knee-jerk reaction to put solar panels on roofs is something people should think about twice.

Only if you don't understand the math.  To see if roof-top or in-road solar financially makes sense is a straight forward math/financial calculation.  If you install the panels yourself in the US payback is 3-5 years.  If you have a professional installer do it pay back is 7-12 years.  Marginally worth it.



 

Offline george80

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Re: Solar Roadways - Germany edition...
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2019, 05:01:06 pm »
No, it means that the knee-jerk reaction to put solar panels on roofs is something people should think about twice.

You have to be taking the piss.  You cannot come back here time and time again talking the moronic shit you do and getting your arse handed to you over and over again if your whole agenda is not to shit stir.  No one is that fking stupid or lacking in self respect. 

No one not trying to be an idiot or a troll could associate the term " Knee jerk reaction" the the installation of Rooftop PV.

I try to be understanding, I try to look at things from other peoples POV, I really do try, but if you aren't being a moron on purpose, you are a total loss and beyond help.
I know I go against the grain a lot of the time but the shit and garbage you come out with has to be made up for the sole purpose of Playing people and is not worthy of response any more.
 


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