Electronics > Power/Renewable Energy/EV's
The beginning of the end for coal
arlipscomb:
Please note that I am not talking about a "one size fits all" solution. What makes sense in a rural community, or small town, may not scale well in large city. But a large city can justify things like atomic energy, windmill farms and hydro-electric projects. It may not make sense to burn wood in a city, but in rural areas it may make more sense than trying to have the power grid keep up with the demands.
For using solar to pump water consider this:
People use solar to pump water on farms and remote areas all the time.
In the United States most homes maintain 30 to 50 gallons of water stored in an insulated hot water tank. The better insulated tanks can keep water hot for many hours. People already put them on timers so they only heat water during the day. Some use solar energy to reduce the cost of heating the water. Common enough.
Now take a second tank and fill them both up with water during the day. Add an air tank to the mix and run the compressor during the day. Then you can get your 30 psi water pressure using the air tank.
Could pumping some water around reduce the amount of power needed to air condition buildings during the day? I remember the old water chilled air conditioners. They are not too common anymore.
What I am trying to think about is how to use the energy in different ways than to just charge a battery for use after dark. In my area the coal plants tend to be used to "fill in" when demand gets high. Find economical ways to use solar where it makes sense and you may be able to nickle and dime the plants out of existence.
edavid:
--- Quote from: LabSpokane on September 08, 2016, 08:38:46 pm ---The issue with biomass is getting enough biomass. Virtually every one I speak to who is outside the industry, grossly underestimates the volume of wood that is required to fuel a plant. Typically, it is a challenge to get enough fuel to fire a 50MWe net plant. It is only economical to source the fuel in a 50 mi radius. For a city that had a 1000MWe coal plant, it would obviously require 20, 50MWe plants to replace it. There is simply nowhere that I know of that this is possible without engaging in massive deforestation - or trucking in wood from such a distance that the power plant merely becomes a way to greenwash petroleum consumption.
--- End quote ---
Enviva currently produces "about 2.3 million metric tons of wood pellets annually" without any deforestation.
--- Quote ---Using wood pellets for home heating, in my opinion, is an excellent way to efficiently heat a space that is efficient, environmentally friendly (if the stove has a catalyst) and truly sustainable. The pellets are largely from wood waste from the forest products industry. In westernized countries, the forest products industry represents sustainable biomass use in that their aggressive replanting programs ensure a perpetual supply now. What is surprising is the amount of processing and capital equipment that is required to create the pellet, which is why pellets cost $200USD/retail instead of the $30/ton for wood chips that a power plant would purchase.
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The European price for wood chips for power plants is well over $100/ton:
http://ir.envivapartners.com/sites/envivabiomass.investorhq.businesswire.com/files/doc_library/file/Enviva_Investor_Presentation_Feb_2016.pdf
LabSpokane:
--- Quote from: edavid on September 08, 2016, 10:55:08 pm ---
Enviva currently produces "about 2.3 million metric tons of wood pellets annually" without any deforestation.
--- End quote ---
[2.3M tonnes * 1.1 short ton per metric ton ] / 8760hr per year is approximately a 288 MWe power plant. Like I said, it takes a staggering amount of wood to replace coal. That monumental effort would need quadrupling just to replace *one* 1000MWe fossil fuel fired power plant. Then that effort would need to be multiplied by dozens to replace the dozens of coal and nuclear plants slated for decommissioning. It's just not going to happen.
--- Quote ---The European price for wood chips for power plants is well over $100/ton:
http://ir.envivapartners.com/sites/envivabiomass.investorhq.businesswire.com/files/doc_library/file/Enviva_Investor_Presentation_Feb_2016.pdf
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Exactly. This price difference between what wood chips cost and pellets sell for has been the basis for a gold rush in exporting US and Candian biomass to Europe as a coal "replacement." And the cost of power at $100+/ton is staggering as well, as just the fuel cost per MWh is likely $125 once one factors in moisture content, ash content, and loss due to plant parasitic load. That likely would result in a retail price $0.35-0.50/kW-h or more to the customer once capital cost, operational expenses, transmission and distributions costs and profit is added through the wholesale and retail stages.
Biomass power is great for niche applications, but please don't let the marketing lull anyone into believing that it's a cheap and easy replacement for our current fossil fuel demands.
arlipscomb:
Fossil fuels will be with us for the foreseeable future. I wish they would get their act together on nuclear power plants. I think they could be part of the long tern solution if they would focus on things like standardization.
LabSpokane:
--- Quote from: arlipscomb on September 08, 2016, 11:50:55 pm ---Fossil fuels will be with us for the foreseeable future. I wish they would get their act together on nuclear power plants. I think they could be part of the long tern solution if they would focus on things like standardization.
--- End quote ---
Nuclear is the only current means to replace fossil fuel power generation on a MW for MW basis and have the availability we are used to.
The real problem is that we (myself included) fail to appreciate just how magically concentrated and convenient fossil fuels are and how hard they are going to be to replace. I'm not advocating continuing to accelerate our use of fossil fuel, but we have to realize just how damned good they are when evaluating replacement sources.
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