Author Topic: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?  (Read 168803 times)

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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1725 on: August 24, 2018, 10:37:09 pm »
Any one hearing of deaths from PHEV exhaust?  This almost happened to us.  Wife came home parked the PHEV in the garage.  She was monetarily distracted by our kids and the dog.  She exited the car, and plugged in the cable to charge the car. 

I walked by the garage and what I thought was the fan for the charger, but it sounded funny.  I then noticed the car was still in "running" mode and the fan sound was actually the engine running.  I thought if the charger cable were plugged PHEVs would detect the connection and power off the car.  But they don't.

According  to my wife there have been half a dozzen or so deaths from CO posioning for PHEV cars accidently left running in peopls garages.



 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1726 on: August 24, 2018, 10:40:50 pm »
Any one hearing of deaths from PHEV exhaust?  This almost happened to us.  Wife came home parked the PHEV in the garage.  She was monetarily distracted by our kids and the dog.  She exited the car, and plugged in the cable to charge the car. 

I walked by the garage and what I thought was the fan for the charger, but it sounded funny.  I then noticed the car was still in "running" mode and the fan sound was actually the engine running.  I thought if the charger cable were plugged PHEVs would detect the connection and power off the car.  But they don't.

According  to my wife there have been half a dozzen or so deaths from CO posioning for PHEV cars accidently left running in peopls garages.

How is this any different from a careless person walking away from any other kind of car without putting it in a safe state -  i.e. in park (or handbrake on for a manual car) and with the engine shut off?
 

Online wraper

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1727 on: August 24, 2018, 11:50:38 pm »
Any one hearing of deaths from PHEV exhaust?  This almost happened to us.  Wife came home parked the PHEV in the garage.  She was monetarily distracted by our kids and the dog.  She exited the car, and plugged in the cable to charge the car. 

I walked by the garage and what I thought was the fan for the charger, but it sounded funny.  I then noticed the car was still in "running" mode and the fan sound was actually the engine running.  I thought if the charger cable were plugged PHEVs would detect the connection and power off the car.  But they don't.

According  to my wife there have been half a dozzen or so deaths from CO posioning for PHEV cars accidently left running in peopls garages.

How is this any different from a careless person walking away from any other kind of car without putting it in a safe state -  i.e. in park (or handbrake on for a manual car) and with the engine shut off?
The difference is it's a crappy design. No PHEV should run ICE while charging.
 

Offline chris_leyson

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1728 on: August 25, 2018, 12:08:42 am »
Kalasnikov just debuted the CV-1, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45292028 I think the retro look is cool. It will be interesting to see what battery technology they are using. Will it do 450 BHP like the Tesla model S, maybe not but who cares as long as it gets you from A to B.

Anybody been watching Formula E ? I haven't, it's not broadcast in the UK. These are the guys developing state of the art electric drive trains and battery technology, but who gives a damn ? The general public couldn't care less about motor racing and petrol heads haven't got a clue about direct drive. It might take a while longer for electric cars to become mainstream because of ignorence and a lack of interest.

When electric cars become cheaper to run than internal combustion engines then it will become mainstream but you have to carry a gallon of fuel and a generator to top up the batteries just in case.
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1729 on: August 25, 2018, 02:03:38 am »

Aren't car batteries leaking Hydrogen as well? If leaking hydrogen was such a big problem then cars wouldn't be allowed to be parked inside at all. In reality Hydrogen is a very light gas and it will float up quickly. Besides that there are ways to bind Hydrogen into a solid form and turn it back into gas quickly.

Batteries generate hydrogen when they are overcharged and that's lead batteries.  Normally wouldn't be a problem unless there is a malfunction and you left the car running. 
 

Offline JuliaAaron

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1730 on: August 26, 2018, 03:44:27 pm »
Hehe wow you know while reading your topic I remembered an article about self-driving cars, unusual :-+ Look, so many benefits described (https://tranio.com/articles/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/), but I've never met a person who owns it really and what's more, finds useful  :-// Interesting to see this all in practice...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 03:50:04 pm by JuliaAaron »
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1731 on: August 26, 2018, 04:30:53 pm »
Hehe wow you know while reading your topic I remembered an article about self-driving cars, unusual :-+ Look, so many benefits described (https://tranio.com/articles/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/), but I've never met a person who owns it really and what's more, finds useful  :-// Interesting to see this all in practice...
Written in July 2017, that article says Singapore has driverless taxis. The reality is they were, and are still, in the phase of having experimental autonomous vehicles operating in Singapore, with a driver to intervene if needed. They hope to start charging for rides in these vehicles later this year, still with a driver to intervene if needed. Its not clear if this represents them being pretty happy with the system, or being desperate for some revenue. This article is far from being alone in making grandiose claims for systems still in an experimental state. This seems to be what passes for journalism these day.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1732 on: August 26, 2018, 06:24:22 pm »
Driverless cars are going through the same hype as Bitcoin.  Notice how driverless cars aren't in the news anymore?

Driverless cars like Bitcoin is capitalism at its finest.  Find some product/technology which sounds like it will change the world.
Convince people this is the investment opportunity of their lifetime.
Microprint and lie to people about the investment opportunity.  Con them into believing they will become unbelievable rich by investing.
Take their money before they realize it’s a scam.
Then when the product fails and everyone has lot their money, rinse and repeat.


 
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Offline glarsson

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1733 on: August 26, 2018, 07:30:44 pm »
You don't have to invest. The alternative is socialism where the state takes your money and invest in stupid projects like solar roadways.
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1734 on: August 26, 2018, 07:48:47 pm »
Hehe wow you know while reading your topic I remembered an article about self-driving cars, unusual :-+ Look, so many benefits described (https://tranio.com/articles/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/), but I've never met a person who owns it really and what's more, finds useful  :-// Interesting to see this all in practice...
I think you are in the wrong thread here. Anyway I'm pretty sure I'll own a self driving car before an electric one.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1735 on: August 26, 2018, 09:35:11 pm »
Hehe wow you know while reading your topic I remembered an article about self-driving cars, unusual :-+ Look, so many benefits described (https://tranio.com/articles/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/), but I've never met a person who owns it really and what's more, finds useful  :-// Interesting to see this all in practice...
I think you are in the wrong thread here. Anyway I'm pretty sure I'll own a self driving car before an electric one.

And you will probably be dead before I will.  I already own an electric vehicle and thought I would be in a self-driving car before an electric car also.  But then look at the driving record of self-driving cars.  Based on the driving record of self-driving cars in the state where I live for insurance purposes they would be in the kamikaze rate category.  And if they were in on more accident lose their license for reckless driving.

   
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1736 on: August 27, 2018, 06:28:50 am »
The other reason that self-driving cars are involved in accidents is because the other cars are not self-driving and unpredictable in their behavior.
The only thing more unpredictable than a human driver is a drunk human driver ;)
Proof: humans do not always obey the road laws, can you imagine that ? There are laws and they don't obey them, tsssss how can you write an algorithm to handle that except never start the car in the first place.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1737 on: August 27, 2018, 10:47:18 am »
The other reason that self-driving cars are involved in accidents is because the other cars are not self-driving and unpredictable in their behavior.
The only thing more unpredictable than a human driver is a drunk human driver ;)
Proof: humans do not always obey the road laws, can you imagine that ? There are laws and they don't obey them, tsssss how can you write an algorithm to handle that except never start the car in the first place.
If we didn't skirt around the road laws every minor traffic works would cause congestion. I'm interested in how these autonomous cars manage to consistently complete journeys through cities where minor blockages are occurring all the time.

Human qualities are a mixed bag. Humans are easily distracted, but they are also capable of moderately complex decision making, even when they need to decide very quickly. I wonder how often a dumb autonomous car has encountered a human driver, and an accident was avoided by the actions of the human driver?
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1738 on: August 27, 2018, 09:20:27 pm »
The other reason that self-driving cars are involved in accidents is because the other cars are not self-driving and unpredictable in their behavior.
The only thing more unpredictable than a human driver is a drunk human driver ;)
Proof: humans do not always obey the road laws, can you imagine that ? There are laws and they don't obey them, tsssss how can you write an algorithm to handle that except never start the car in the first place.


Self drving cars do not drive in a vaccum of self-drioving cars.  They have to be aware of kids, small animals, fall rocks, fallen trees, washed out roads, bridges, flooded road, pot-holes not to mention what happens with when selfdriving cars are in mud, slush and snow?  In otherwords real world conditions.

Don't you think self-drviing cars should be able to tell the difference between the road and a tree?  If you are so confidnet they work well would you like to get in a car and drive the same road where the computer drove head-on towards a tree?  So far only one person was killed.  You could give it a try and see if you are number 2.  Yet again maybe not.  Questions is would you like to test it?



 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1739 on: August 28, 2018, 08:19:39 am »
Oh I am not saying that they are there yet.
They have a long way to go and AFAIK there are no autonomous driving cars yet, the human driver should still be alert and have control.
So when you say drive into a tree, where was the human driver ? Darwin award ?

In the long run I am convinced that autonomous cars will be much safer than human driven cars and able to respond much faster to sudden events as kids crossing the street.
IMO one of the worst possible conditions to test autonomous cars is with a lot of human drivers around, I really don't understand that they allowed this , esp. when you read the other topic how for instance Tesla develops its software, ouch.
 
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Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1740 on: August 28, 2018, 09:03:36 am »
Oh I am not saying that they are there yet.
They have a long way to go and AFAIK there are no autonomous driving cars yet, the human driver should still be alert and have control.
So when you say drive into a tree, where was the human driver ? Darwin award ?

In the long run I am convinced that autonomous cars will be much safer than human driven cars and able to respond much faster to sudden events as kids crossing the street.
IMO one of the worst possible conditions to test autonomous cars is with a lot of human drivers around, I really don't understand that they allowed this , esp. when you read the other topic how for instance Tesla develops its software, ouch.
I don't think many well informed smart people would deny that eventually it is highly likely that autonomous systems will do anything better than a human. What is relevant right now is what the crude automated driving systems being built today, for deployment in the near term, might achieve.
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1741 on: August 29, 2018, 02:45:58 pm »
Europe has sold over 1 million EVs now and sales growth rate continues to accelerate. 37% of light vehicle sales in Norway.

Impressive.

Looks like they have already reached “mainstream” status in several countries.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 02:52:29 pm by mtdoc »
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1742 on: August 29, 2018, 03:28:55 pm »
Europe has sold over 1 million EVs now and sales growth rate continues to accelerate. 37% of light vehicle sales in Norway.

Impressive.

Looks like they have already reached “mainstream” status in several countries.
They seem to be mainstream in just 2 countries - Norway and Iceland, neither of which are very big markets. In every other European country sales are still a very small percentage.

I find it interesting how diverse the sales of electric vehicles in Europe actually is. We keep hearing about the same few models over and over - mostly the Teslas, the Leaf and the Zoe - but a considerable percentage of electric cars are the less prominent models.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1743 on: August 29, 2018, 03:34:15 pm »
What is relevant right now is what the crude automated driving systems being built today, for deployment in the near term, might achieve.
Not too much, the Google car would fail a driversexam on more than four critical points.

Impressive.
Looks like they have already reached “mainstream” status in several countries.
No I don't agree since these salesfigures are artificially reached by billions of Norwegian crowns subsidized government money.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1744 on: August 29, 2018, 04:11:36 pm »
Europe has sold over 1 million EVs now and sales growth rate continues to accelerate. 37% of light vehicle sales in Norway.
Impressive.
It is not. That is less than 0.5%. And as Kjelt noted there are only two countries with only a few people in them (not even half the number of people in the Netherlands!) where government subsidies artificially increase EV sales.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 06:43:23 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1745 on: August 29, 2018, 04:25:35 pm »
The Norwegian state owns 1.4 % of Tesla Motors, IIANM.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 04:37:59 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
git diff *
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1746 on: September 11, 2018, 09:21:14 am »
This guy has a Model 3 and says that the charge efficiency isn't 85%, but ~ 80%:

git diff *
 

Offline a59d1

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1747 on: September 11, 2018, 02:32:27 pm »
He doesn't look like he's complaining about paying $0.02/mile.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1748 on: September 11, 2018, 02:51:35 pm »
OTOH he's paid in advance for several hundred thousand miles of "fuel"...
git diff *
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #1749 on: September 11, 2018, 03:37:53 pm »
Only $20 in Supercharging stations?  Appears the guy doesn't get out much.  Only uses hist car to drive to and from work?

Wonder where he lives.  Electricity and gas prices are really low.  Where I in California we are on TOU billing for electricity.  So, we could be paying as little as double as what he's paying for electricity to almost 10 times as much.  As for gasoline we are paying about $1.00 more per gallon.

For people in California he's making a good argument that ICE is far less expensive than an EV. For Californians using his actual data we would spend $1,800 for gasoline and I'm not using Costco gas prices here. 

As for the electricity it depends on charging times.  But let's just say he changes only during Peak hours - The electricity would cost $1,866.50.  If charging during partial-peak about $,1000 and off-peak, $505.


The car he was comparing it with only gets 21 MPG means he was driving a gas guzzler.  The car I drive averages 30 MPG which is sure making the Tesla EV a complete was.  Now electricity prices are to continue to rise in California whereas gas prices have pretty much remained the same for many years.

He’s sure making the argument for California’s EVs aren’t worth it.
 


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