When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?

[nctnico]

Well we can't catch all the farts (methane). Making fertiliser can be reduced to needing an X amount of energy to produce a Y amount of fertiliser for a Z amount of money. If the CO2 footprint of X decreases then growing crops will produce less CO2. Letting the machines run on renewable energy sources (bio fuel is the easiest switch to make) and another reduction is achieved.

[coppice]

A big part of sustainable farming is reducing use of animals.

I think you are confusing sustainability with the ability to feed more people. They are very different issues, although the urge to feed more and more usually makes sustainability harder to achieve.

[DougSpindler]

Well we can't catch all the farts (methane). Making fertiliser can be reduced to needing an X amount of energy to produce a Y amount of fertiliser for a Z amount of money. If the CO2 footprint of X decreases then growing crops will produce less CO2. Letting the machines run on renewable energy sources (bio fuel is the easiest switch to make) and another reduction is achieved.

Exactly, which is why biofuels will never work? 

[nctnico]

Well we can't catch all the farts (methane). Making fertiliser can be reduced to needing an X amount of energy to produce a Y amount of fertiliser for a Z amount of money. If the CO2 footprint of X decreases then growing crops will produce less CO2. Letting the machines run on renewable energy sources (bio fuel is the easiest switch to make) and another reduction is achieved.

Exactly p, which is why biofuels will ever work?

The EPA expects to ramp up 3rd generation ethanol to 16 billion gallons a year in the next couple of years. That is more than double the amount of ethanol the entire USA has produced in 2017. Basically the US bio-fuel production is currently at it's maximum production capability and 3rd generation bio-fuels are the only way to achieve a significant growth. Unfortunately this takes longer than expected. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37712

[coppice]

Well we can't catch all the farts (methane). Making fertiliser can be reduced to needing an X amount of energy to produce a Y amount of fertiliser for a Z amount of money. If the CO2 footprint of X decreases then growing crops will produce less CO2. Letting the machines run on renewable energy sources (bio fuel is the easiest switch to make) and another reduction is achieved.

Exactly p, which is why biofuels will ever work?

The EPA expects to ramp up 3rd generation ethanol to 16 billion gallons a year in the next couple of years. That is more than double the amount of ethanol the entire USA has produced in 2017. Basically the US bio-fuel production is currently at it's maximum production capability and 3rd generation bio-fuels are the only way to achieve a significant growth. Unfortunately this takes longer than expected. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37712

The page you referenced says "Cellulosic biofuels were intended to grow to 16 billion gallons by 2022, but the technology has not matured fast enough to meet the volume standards.", which conflicts with the figure you quoted. They show cellulosic (3rd generation) fuels struggling to achieve any significant volume at all.

[nctnico]

Well we can't catch all the farts (methane). Making fertiliser can be reduced to needing an X amount of energy to produce a Y amount of fertiliser for a Z amount of money. If the CO2 footprint of X decreases then growing crops will produce less CO2. Letting the machines run on renewable energy sources (bio fuel is the easiest switch to make) and another reduction is achieved.

Exactly p, which is why biofuels will ever work?

The EPA expects to ramp up 3rd generation ethanol to 16 billion gallons a year in the next couple of years. That is more than double the amount of ethanol the entire USA has produced in 2017. Basically the US bio-fuel production is currently at it's maximum production capability and 3rd generation bio-fuels are the only way to achieve a significant growth. Unfortunately this takes longer than expected. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37712

The page you referenced says "Cellulosic biofuels were intended to grow to 16 billion gallons by 2022, but the technology has not matured fast enough to meet the volume standards.", which conflicts with the figure you quoted. They show cellulosic (3rd generation) fuels struggling to achieve any significant volume at all.

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years. The graph shows a significant growth expected for 2019 when it comes to cellulosic biofuels. They wouldn't have printed it if the factories aren't running. And these are just the demonstrator plants.

[coppice]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years.

The latest news ALWAYS says the problems have been solved.

[nctnico]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years.

The latest news ALWAYS says the problems have been solved.

Just keep an eye on it (see my latest edit). BTW I'm not just basing this on what the manufacturers say but also from what has been extracted from actual production numbers for 2017 and  2018.

[coppice]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years. The graph shows a significant growth expected for 2019 when it comes to cellulosic biofuels. They wouldn't have printed it if the factories aren't running. And these are just the demonstrator plants.

Which graph are you referring to?

[Carrington]

Was the ediesel mentioned here before?
E-diesel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-diesel

Please note that this topic is over 100 pages long, and I don't have enough time to read it.
Cheers.

[nctnico]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years. The graph shows a significant growth expected for 2019 when it comes to cellulosic biofuels. They wouldn't have printed it if the factories aren't running. And these are just the demonstrator plants.

Which graph are you referring to?

The one on the right. The right most bar is for 2019.

@Carrington: e-diesel hasn't been mentioned before AFAIK. I never heard of it before.

[coppice]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years. The graph shows a significant growth expected for 2019 when it comes to cellulosic biofuels. They wouldn't have printed it if the factories aren't running. And these are just the demonstrator plants.

Which graph are you referring to?

The one on the right. The right most bar is for 2019.

That graphs shows a little production in 2016 and 2017, a lot less in 2018, and an estimate that's a bit higher than 2016 and 2017 for 2019. Its doesn't show any substantial production.

[DougSpindler]

Well we can't catch all the farts (methane). Making fertiliser can be reduced to needing an X amount of energy to produce a Y amount of fertiliser for a Z amount of money. If the CO2 footprint of X decreases then growing crops will produce less CO2. Letting the machines run on renewable energy sources (bio fuel is the easiest switch to make) and another reduction is achieved.

Exactly p, which is why biofuels will ever work?

The EPA expects to ramp up 3rd generation ethanol to 16 billion gallons a year in the next couple of years. That is more than double the amount of ethanol the entire USA has produced in 2017. Basically the US bio-fuel production is currently at it's maximum production capability and 3rd generation bio-fuels are the only way to achieve a significant growth. Unfortunately this takes longer than expected. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37712

Is that the EPA Trump is dismantling?  And if you believe 3rd generation ethanol to reach 16 billion gallons a year in the next couple of years are you investing in it?  Probably not.  Which is a good indication of how much you believe what you are promoting.

 

[DougSpindler]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years.

The latest news ALWAYS says the problems have been solved.

Just keep an eye on it (see my latest edit). BTW I'm not just basing this on what the manufacturers say but also from what has been extracted from actual production numbers for 2017 and  2018.

nctnico is so high on promoting biofuels with bullshit web sites it's silly trying to have a sane discussion with him.  I think the stock material for the biofuels he's talking about is what he can't smoke.  Look at the his previous posts on biofuels which go back a couple of years.  Which is what nctnico is basing his facts on.  The think is and nctnico know this those couple of years have past and biofuels are worse off than the were with his posts from a few years ago.  What's he's failing to accept is that biofuels have been proven not to be a viable solution from nctnico own posts.

nctnico like that guy Bernard Madoff.  The FBI is in his office about to arrest him for ripping good honest people off with investment fraud like biofuel companies.  And Madoff is on the phone telling customers what a great investment biofuel companies will be in just a few years.  nctnico is doing the same thing.  He's telling people how wonderful biofuel companies are and will be while all of the evidence says otherwise.

[george80]

Dude take a chill pill and do some research before forming th thr month.  Why all of the hostility?  This forum is about learning and helping each other.  It appears all you want to do mouth offf your beliefs and provide no facts or science to support your opinion. 

Why are you even posting to this forum?   

Do you not simple chemistry?  The products of a fireworks shell are as follows K2S (potassium sulfide) + N2 (nitrogen gas) + 3CO2 (carbon dioxide).

My friend turn down the hostility and fire up the willingness to want to learn.  I have yet to meet someone who knows it except for the crazy religious nuts in my town who scream bible versus on street cornors. 

Try eating a Hubble pie or two.  Then smoke a couple of marijuana joints and mellow out before making you next post.  Keep you mind open so you can lean something nd think about it unless that’s illegal in the copuntry where you live.

Given the hypocrisy of the hostility in this post and the incomprehensible sentences, I will continue to avoid taking recreational drugs of any form thanks. NEVER taken/ smoked ANYTHING in my life nor even been drunk and I intend to finish my days as I have in this regard so far. I deal with problems head on not try to run and escape from them with some sort of artificial remedy that just makes things worse.

Stoners and I don't mix well and they ALWAYS come off very second best with me. Never met one yet that wasn't a deadbeat,  looking to rip you off at any opportunity, was a moron and a pain in the arse to boot. NEVER have 2 cents to their name, never achieved anything in life and typically live off welfare and complain about everyone else that has worked and achieved something for themselves.  I know of one looser that has Weed symbol stickers all over his moving Violation of a vehicle and personal items like wallet and phone, has been pulled over by the cops and searched about 50 times and they find shit on him most times. Complains endlessly about why they are always pulling him over and how unfair it is he has to keep going to court and paying fines.

Yeah, real Einstein like the rest of them.

I don't know what is to learn from reading the endless harping and whining about Co2 that some want to manufacture opportunities to go on about it every time they possibly can.

I don't give a damn about Co2. I think the whole fearmongering of it is a crock of ship just like the whole Globull boring scam.
Co2 makes plants grow. That has to be good god for the planet. Warmer temps make plants grow faster and I hate the cold so I hope the planet does warm up a degree or 2. Carrying on about it is going to make NO difference because Gubbermints and their Big biz puppet masters will continue to do exactly what they want to do and that's it. They don't give a damn about Co2 or the environment so may as well just alienating people with the endless carry on and brow beating.
I have also found the ones that whinge the most about these things are also very frequently the biggest hypocrites and do the least of anyone to do anything about their contribution to co2 and other emissions and energy consumption.

Now those statements have upset some people, they have my blessing to continue on to be outraged. Just stop bleating about Co2 and Globull boring all the time when it has NOTHING to do with the topic as it has nothing to do with this one despite the agendas people want to push.

Keep it to the Globull warming threads where you can preach and get the collective approval of the rest of the like minded.

[george80]

nctnico is so high on promoting biofuels with bullshit web sites it's silly trying to have a sane discussion with him.  I think the stock material for the biofuels he's talking about is what he can't smoke.  Look at the his previous posts on biofuels which go back a couple of years.  Which is what nctnico is basing his facts on.  The think is and nctnico know this those couple of years have past and biofuels are worse off than the were with his posts from a few years ago.  What's he's failing to accept is that biofuels have been proven not to be a viable solution from nctnico own posts.

nctnico like that guy Bernard Madoff.  The FBI is in his office about to arrest him for ripping good honest people off with investment fraud like biofuel companies.  And Madoff is on the phone telling customers what a great investment biofuel companies will be in just a few years.  nctnico is doing the same thing.  He's telling people how wonderful biofuel companies are and will be while all of the evidence says otherwise.

Ever heard of practice what you preach in reference to chilling out, dude.

[DougSpindler]

Dude take a chill pill and do some research before forming th thr month.  Why all of the hostility?  This forum is about learning and helping each other.  It appears all you want to do mouth offf your beliefs and provide no facts or science to support your opinion. 

Why are you even posting to this forum?   

Do you not simple chemistry?  The products of a fireworks shell are as follows K2S (potassium sulfide) + N2 (nitrogen gas) + 3CO2 (carbon dioxide).

My friend turn down the hostility and fire up the willingness to want to learn.  I have yet to meet someone who knows it except for the crazy religious nuts in my town who scream bible versus on street cornors. 

Try eating a Hubble pie or two.  Then smoke a couple of marijuana joints and mellow out before making you next post.  Keep you mind open so you can lean something nd think about it unless that’s illegal in the copuntry where you live.

Given the hypocrisy of the hostility in this post and the incomprehensible sentences, I will continue to avoid taking recreational drugs of any form thanks. NEVER taken/ smoked ANYTHING in my life nor even been drunk and I intend to finish my days as I have in this regard so far. I deal with problems head on not try to run and escape from them with some sort of artificial remedy that just makes things worse.

Stoners and I don't mix well and they ALWAYS come off very second best with me. Never met one yet that wasn't a deadbeat,  looking to rip you off at any opportunity, was a moron and a pain in the arse to boot. NEVER have 2 cents to their name, never achieved anything in life and typically live off welfare and complain about everyone else that has worked and achieved something for themselves.  I know of one looser that has Weed symbol stickers all over his moving Violation of a vehicle and personal items like wallet and phone, has been pulled over by the cops and searched about 50 times and they find shit on him most times. Complains endlessly about why they are always pulling him over and how unfair it is he has to keep going to court and paying fines.

Yeah, real Einstein like the rest of them.

I don't know what is to learn from reading the endless harping and whining about Co2 that some want to manufacture opportunities to go on about it every time they possibly can.

I don't give a damn about Co2. I think the whole fearmongering of it is a crock of ship just like the whole Globull boring scam.
Co2 makes plants grow. That has to be good god for the planet. Warmer temps make plants grow faster and I hate the cold so I hope the planet does warm up a degree or 2. Carrying on about it is going to make NO difference because Gubbermints and their Big biz puppet masters will continue to do exactly what they want to do and that's it. They don't give a damn about Co2 or the environment so may as well just alienating people with the endless carry on and brow beating.
I have also found the ones that whinge the most about these things are also very frequently the biggest hypocrites and do the least of anyone to do anything about their contribution to co2 and other emissions and energy consumption.

Now those statements have upset some people, they have my blessing to continue on to be outraged. Just stop bleating about Co2 and Globull boring all the time when it has NOTHING to do with the topic as it has nothing to do with this one despite the agendas people want to push.

Keep it to the Globull warming threads where you can preach and get the collective approval of the rest of the like minded.

What planet have you been living on?  Some stoners and drunks have been very prosperous and have changed the world we live in?  Since you are an old fossil, names like Dean Martin, (when we he not drunk?) Beatles Rolling Stones, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and all of the programmers who worked at Atari were stoners.  Heck even Pope Leo XIII always loved cocaine and wine.  Had Vin Mariani with him all the time.

And then there are the psychedelic drugs.  Any idea how much influence they have had on religion, music, art, books, and most importantly the computer industry.  And now we all know Elon Musk smokes weed.

You might want to try some dope or LSD it might mellow you out and clear your mind of all of the hostility you have.

[nctnico]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years.

The latest news ALWAYS says the problems have been solved.

Just keep an eye on it (see my latest edit). BTW I'm not just basing this on what the manufacturers say but also from what has been extracted from actual production numbers for 2017 and  2018.

nctnico is so high on promoting biofuels with bullshit web sites it's silly trying to have a sane discussion with him.  I think the stock material for the biofuels he's talking about is what he can't smoke.  Look at the his previous posts on biofuels which go back a couple of years.  Which is what nctnico is basing his facts on.  The think is and nctnico know this those couple of years have past and biofuels are worse off than the were with his posts from a few years ago.  What's he's failing to accept is that biofuels have been proven not to be a viable solution from nctnico own posts.

nctnico like that guy Bernard Madoff.  The FBI is in his office about to arrest him for ripping good honest people off with investment fraud like biofuel companies.  And Madoff is on the phone telling customers what a great investment biofuel companies will be in just a few years.  nctnico is doing the same thing.  He's telling people how wonderful biofuel companies are and will be while all of the evidence says otherwise.

Interestingly you never provide any scientifically sound sources (IOW reports with factual numbers) which support your opinion. Some guy ranting on Youtube doesn't count.

And perhaps Trump is taking the EPA apart but bio-fuels mean jobs for the USA. The jobs Trump promised.

[DougSpindler]

True but the most recent news seems to indicate that the biggest problems have been overcome. Just shift the expectations of the EPA forward by a few years.

The latest news ALWAYS says the problems have been solved.

Just keep an eye on it (see my latest edit). BTW I'm not just basing this on what the manufacturers say but also from what has been extracted from actual production numbers for 2017 and  2018.

nctnico is so high on promoting biofuels with bullshit web sites it's silly trying to have a sane discussion with him.  I think the stock material for the biofuels he's talking about is what he can't smoke.  Look at the his previous posts on biofuels which go back a couple of years.  Which is what nctnico is basing his facts on.  The think is and nctnico know this those couple of years have past and biofuels are worse off than the were with his posts from a few years ago.  What's he's failing to accept is that biofuels have been proven not to be a viable solution from nctnico own posts.

nctnico like that guy Bernard Madoff.  The FBI is in his office about to arrest him for ripping good honest people off with investment fraud like biofuel companies.  And Madoff is on the phone telling customers what a great investment biofuel companies will be in just a few years.  nctnico is doing the same thing.  He's telling people how wonderful biofuel companies are and will be while all of the evidence says otherwise.

Interestingly you never provide any scientifically sound sources (IOW reports with factual numbers) which support your opinion. Some guy ranting on Youtube doesn't count.

And perhaps Trump is taking the EPA apart but bio-fuels mean jobs for the USA. The jobs Trump promised.

Dude Trump never promised biofuel jobs in the US.  I’m sure he doesn’t know anything about biofuels.  When Trump promised jobs, he promised jobs mining coal, drilling for fossil fuels and bring back those steel mill jobs.  Biofuels would be green jobs and we all know he's not for green jobs and does’t beleive climate change is happening eventhough his military gas already implemented many new porgrams because of climate change.

You should give some of that pope’s wine a try.

[george80]

You might want to try some dope or LSD it might mellow you out and clear your mind of all of the hostility you have.

No thanks.
I don't need anymore problems in my life and I prefer to keep what wits I have intact at all times.

[george80]

Interestingly you never provide any scientifically sound sources (IOW reports with factual numbers) which support your opinion. Some guy ranting on Youtube doesn't count.

Mate, look in the mirror, neither do YOU.
Marketing/ investment hype of projections and forecasts don't count either.  You call on others to back everything up with scientific proof but never do that yourself insisting that something on a website from a self vested interest is indisputable. It's not.

And perhaps Trump is taking the EPA apart but bio-fuels mean jobs for the USA. The jobs Trump promised.

What would it take for you to accept biofuels will never be more than a drop in the ocean, if that?

Maybe you can give us some numbers of production from the sites you subscribe to and maybe in time if any of us still give a Fk we can have something to go by  as a make or break which you will accept as bio either living up to the hype or not.  No excuses, no BS if they don't get there, yes or no numbers we can say win or fail .

[DougSpindler]

You might want to try some dope or LSD it might mellow you out and clear your mind of all of the hostility you have.

No thanks.
I don't need anymore problems in my life and I prefer to keep what wits I have intact at all times.

This stuff helps a lot of people think more clearly.  Looking at your posts, just thought it might help.

[DougSpindler]

Interestingly you never provide any scientifically sound sources (IOW reports with factual numbers) which support your opinion. Some guy ranting on Youtube doesn't count.

Dude the videos are just not “some guys”.  These are well educated experts with scientifc backgrounds who are well respected.  They use critical thinking skills and science to support their positions.  There’s not marketing hype or belelifs, just the language we all understand science. 

Mate, look in the mirror, neither do YOU.
Marketing/ investment hype of projections and forecasts don't count either.  You call on others to back everything up with scientific proof but never do that yourself insisting that something on a website from a self vested interest is indisputable. It's not.

Mate the other dude keeps citing marketing hype from several years ago as proof biofuels will save us all.  The problem is several years have passed, and biofules have not saved us as he keeps saying.  Insteadin they have had abysmal results.  Or in other words they have failed to produce.  There’s a reason venture capitalists are not investing in biofules,  They do not work as well as had been hyped.  Venture capatailists don’t back looosers.

And perhaps Trump is taking the EPA apart but bio-fuels mean jobs for the USA. The jobs Trump promised.

What would it take for you to accept biofuels will never be more than a drop in the ocean, if that?

Maybe you can give us some numbers of production from the sites you subscribe to and maybe in time if any of us still give a Fk we can have something to go by  as a make or break which you will accept as bio either living up to the hype or not.  No excuses, no BS if they don't get there, yes or no numbers we can say win or fail .
[/quote]

Friend in all of the press coverage Tump gets on employment and jobs have you ever herd him say anything about biofules?  Or biofuel jobs?   

Show us one press report where Trump has even mentioned biofuels.  Just one.

[nctnico]

Interestingly you never provide any scientifically sound sources (IOW reports with factual numbers) which support your opinion. Some guy ranting on Youtube doesn't count.

Dude the videos are just not “some guys”.  These are well educated experts with scientifc backgrounds who are well respected.  They use critical thinking skills and science to support their positions.  There’s not marketing hype or belelifs, just the language we all understand science. 

You mean the Australian car sales guy? Like he has the qualifications to proof several independant projects, in which at least a billion dollars of private money has been invested, wrong... You have to come up with a much better argument than that. And please quit about critical thinking. That is just blowing dust in the wind to create a smoke screen.

[DougSpindler]

Interestingly you never provide any scientifically sound sources (IOW reports with factual numbers) which support your opinion. Some guy ranting on Youtube doesn't count.

Dude the videos are just not “some guys”.  These are well educated experts with scientifc backgrounds who are well respected.  They use critical thinking skills and science to support their positions.  There’s not marketing hype or belelifs, just the language we all understand science. 

You mean the Australian car sales guy? Like he has the qualifications to proof several independant projects, in which at least a billion dollars of private money has been invested, wrong... You have to come up with a much better argument than that. And please quit about critical thinking. That is just blowing dust in the wind to create a smoke screen.

There you go again making shit up.  John Cadogan is just one of the many people I have referenced.  They are sure as shit better than that one marketing web page from several years ago about biofuels.  Well several years have past and biofuels have failed miserably to meet the numbers in the documents you keep referring to.

Are you saying you are not a critical thinker?  If so explains why many of your posts are so silly.  Stop inhaling the biofuel fumes and get a whiff of science.  If it were not for critical thinking skills and science were would we be?