Author Topic: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?  (Read 244855 times)

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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #350 on: April 15, 2018, 05:00:15 pm »
I have an electric cars and it seems to me it’s the bickering between the electric car manufactures on charging stations types and plugs which is impeding the adaptation of electric cars.

I just drove to a very large mega shopping cente near Palm Springs California.  There are over 200 stores and they advertise free car charging for electric cars while shopping.

Pulled in hoping to get a charge and some shopping done.  Took me 20 minutes to find the charging station.  No one knew where the charging station was.  Finally found it....  There were only two spaces for electric cars yest ona busy weekend this mall would see well over 10,000 shoppers.

Had to wait for one of the two spaces, finally was able to get a space.  Pulled in, only to find the charging station plug does not work with a Chevy. 

As a consumer this is BS.  Why isn’t there just one standard plug for electric cars? So I called the phone number on the chargaing station to see where the nearest Chevy charger was.  It was over 2 miles away at a hotel.  I was told to part there and take a Taxi or maybe a Uber to get to and from the shopping center.

So here you folks are talking about infrastructure, the electric car companies are fighting over what infrastructure to install.  I’m a correct that Tesla makes it so only Tesla cars car be charged in Tesla Chargers?  And then aren’t there three other types of electric car plugs which are all different?

Yes it’s the chicken and egg question, but if the electric car companies can’t agree on what type of plug to use I can see why there’s reluctance to install electric car infrastructure.  What happens if Tesla goes out of business or changes the plug?  Same question about Chevy?  Ever see the GM Sequel?
 
GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz said in a TED talk Cheverlot GM produce hydrogen powered Sequels.  Not sure what happened by after this announcement was made unveiled Volt in 2008 instead of hydrogen powered cars.

Back to the chicken and the egg.  What’s a city/business/home owner to do?  Do you install hydrogen, natural gas or electric refueling station.  If you install electric which plug do you support?  Or do you support all?  And then what happens if the industry/technology changes the plug?  Or one of the car companies goes out of business/stops making electric cars a lot of money would have be wasted on an infrastructure which might never be used. 

Heck even for my home charger I have to select between 6 different AC plugs configurations.  Why are there no standards in the electric car industry?  Or if there are, why aren’t they being followed?

 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #351 on: April 15, 2018, 05:13:49 pm »
Had to wait for one of the two spaces, finally was able to get a space.  Pulled in, only to find the charging station plug does not work with a Chevy. 

As a consumer this is BS.  Why isn’t there just one standard plug for electric cars? So I called the phone number on the chargaing station to see where the nearest Chevy charger was.  It was over 2 miles away at a hotel.  I was told to part there and take a Taxi or maybe a Uber to get to and from the shopping center.

So here you folks are talking about infrastructure, the electric car companies are fighting over what infrastructure to install.  I’m a correct that Tesla makes it so only Tesla cars car be charged in Tesla Chargers?  And then aren’t there three other types of electric car plugs which are all different?
That is the problem with being an early adopter. You get to deal with all the sh*t and it will get much worse before getting better (I was an early adopter of DSL internet...). In order to make EVs mainstream they'll have to charge faster which will require a totally different plug. AFAIK the reason Tesla is incompatible is not because they want to but because they want to be able to charge at higher speeds which isn't possible with the standard plugs.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 05:15:37 pm by nctnico »
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #352 on: April 15, 2018, 05:14:45 pm »
Another reason in the US electric cars can be a pain in the ass.  (I’d like to know if this is happening in other countries......  People are ass-holes.  I pulled into a hotel which had 4 EV charging station parking spaces.  Checked in and asked where the EV chargaing parking spaces were.  I was told they were all filled.  Really?  I looked out the window and yup every space was filled.  But not with EV cars, they were filled with internal combustion vehicle cars.  Not one could be charged.  The hotel clerk told me employees with park in the EV space because the parking space was closer to the hotel.

I could tell she wasn’t too happy about me having a EV vehicle.  She said by the time I I took my bags to my room she would have her car moved so I could charge my car.

What’s with people.  These four spaces were clearly marked and reserved for EV charging.  So why do ICE drivers think they can park in EV spaces?  What jerks.

But then I was thinking what if there were five guests who had EVs at this hotel which had only four spaces.  Would one of the four of us get a call at 3:00 in the morning telling us our car was charged and we would he to move it so another guest could get charged?

What’s the etiquette here?
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #353 on: April 15, 2018, 05:22:26 pm »
Had to wait for one of the two spaces, finally was able to get a space.  Pulled in, only to find the charging station plug does not work with a Chevy. 

As a consumer this is BS.  Why isn’t there just one standard plug for electric cars? So I called the phone number on the chargaing station to see where the nearest Chevy charger was.  It was over 2 miles away at a hotel.  I was told to part there and take a Taxi or maybe a Uber to get to and from the shopping center.

So here you folks are talking about infrastructure, the electric car companies are fighting over what infrastructure to install.  I’m a correct that Tesla makes it so only Tesla cars car be charged in Tesla Chargers?  And then aren’t there three other types of electric car plugs which are all different?
That is the problem with being an early adopter. You get to deal with all the sh*t and it will get much worse before getting better (I was an early adopter of DSL internet...). In order to make EVs mainstream they'll have to charge faster which will require a totally different plug. AFAIK the reason Tesla is incompatible is not because they want to but because they want to be able to charge at higher speeds which isn't possible with the standard plugs.

So what prevents them from installing the other plugs?   Which I suspect would draw less current?  Crap why can’t the electric car industry charger manufactures make public chargers with all the different plug types?

Or is there a reason Chevy and all of the other EV car manufactures can’t use the Tesla plug?  Or does Tesla charge an enormous royalty fee?
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #354 on: April 15, 2018, 05:52:08 pm »
Another reason EV cars won’t become mainstream is because some the them are assholes too.  I recently drove to a supermarket where they had a couple of EV charging spaces.  Signs around on on the EV charging stations clearly state, “Free EV car charging only while shopping at “Good Food” supermarket.

Similar to my EV parking spaces at hotels being parked in by ICE drivers, the EV charging spaces were being used by people working out in a gym across the street and others not shopping at the market wanting a free charge.  What’s wrong with these people?  If they did this at a gas station it would be called stealing.  But for some reason EV drivers feel they can take energy from businesses for free.

I asked an employee about it, and was told it’s turning into a big problem.  As people find businesses who have free charging they are taking advantage and “stealing” the power without shopping our supporting the business that’s giving them the “free” electricty.

The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.

In this case it’s EV drivers who are preventing the adoption of EV vehicles and installation of charging stations.
 



« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 06:09:45 pm by DougSpindler »
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #355 on: April 15, 2018, 06:01:54 pm »
Another reason EV cars won’t become mainstream is because some the them are assholes too.  I recently drove to a supermarket where they had a couple of EV charging spaces.  Signs around on on the EV charging stations clearly state, “Free EV car charging only while shopping at “Good Food” supermarket.

Similar to my EV parking spaces at hotels being parked in by ICE drivers, the EV charging spaces were being used by people working out in a gym across the street and others not shopping at the market wanting a free charge.  What’s wrong with these people?  If they did this at a gas station it would be called stealing.  But for some reason EV drivers feel they can take energy from businesses for free.

I asked an employee about it, and was told it’s turning into a big problem.  As people find businesses who have free charging they are taking advantage and “stealing” the power without shopping our supporting the business that’s giving them the “free” electricty.

The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.

In this case it’s EV drivers who are preventing the adoption of EV vehicles and installation of charging stations.
There appears to be a straightforward long term solution for this. Stores could operate these chargers as paid for chargers, and give drivers a token at the checkout to get their charge for free.
 

Offline radar_macgyver

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #356 on: April 15, 2018, 06:20:49 pm »
What’s with people.  These four spaces were clearly marked and reserved for EV charging.  So why do ICE drivers think they can park in EV spaces?  What jerks.

But then I was thinking what if there were five guests who had EVs at this hotel which had only four spaces.  Would one of the four of us get a call at 3:00 in the morning telling us our car was charged and we would he to move it so another guest could get charged?

What’s the etiquette here?

So for one thing, EV drivers are seen as 'smug' (one comment earlier in this thread), 'entitled', 'mooching off free stuff', etc., and people use that notion to justify parking an ICE car in an EV parking spot. Somehow that's seen as 'taking them down a notch'. I've heard my wife's own mother saying we're defrauding our city by charging for free.

As for charging etiquette, there aren't really any 'rules' yet but I did get a card with my home charger that you attach to the charging cord. One side indicates that you are 'opportunity charging', and lists a phone number to call in case you really need the spot. The other side indicates that I really need the charge. So far, nobody has called me to ask for my spot yet.

Commercial charging providers like Chargepoint can partner with multiple businesses so that the cost of operation is split. This neatly solves the common parking lot problem. Even when the charging is free, Chargepoint requires me to swipe an RFID to unlock the charge cable. I suppose they could add a feature where one would need to pay for the charge unless a business 'validates' (similar to parking) the charge session.

All EVs sold in the US have an SAE J1772 socket for level 2 charging. The differences are for level 3, where Tesla has their own proprietary plug. Many Japanese vendors use the CHAdeMO plug, everyone else (including Chevy) use the J1772 combo plug that includes two extra pins for DC charging. I'm guessing Tesla's reason for a proprietary plug is to prevent non-Tesla drivers from charging for free at Supercharger stations. So far, all the DC fast charge stations I've been to have both CHAdeMO and SAE combo plugs.

European EVs use the IEC type-2 connector, which can provide 3-phase power. This uses the same signaling as the single-phase J1772 socket, so a passive adapter can be used. CHAdeMO uses CAN bus for signaling, so one can't devise a passive adapter plug. Not sure what Tesla uses for signaling.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #357 on: April 15, 2018, 06:22:34 pm »
Another reason EV cars won’t become mainstream is because some the them are assholes too.  I recently drove to a supermarket where they had a couple of EV charging spaces.  Signs around on on the EV charging stations clearly state, “Free EV car charging only while shopping at “Good Food” supermarket.

Similar to my EV parking spaces at hotels being parked in by ICE drivers, the EV charging spaces were being used by people working out in a gym across the street and others not shopping at the market wanting a free charge.  What’s wrong with these people?  If they did this at a gas station it would be called stealing.  But for some reason EV drivers feel they can take energy from businesses for free.

I asked an employee about it, and was told it’s turning into a big problem.  As people find businesses who have free charging they are taking advantage and “stealing” the power without shopping our supporting the business that’s giving them the “free” electricty.

The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.

In this case it’s EV drivers who are preventing the adoption of EV vehicles and installation of charging stations.
There appears to be a straightforward long term solution for this. Stores could operate these chargers as paid for chargers, and give drivers a token at the checkout to get their charge for free.

Yes they could.  But it's at an additional expense.  Yes it can be done but do you know of any commercial chargers for sale today whcih have that feature?  Or any businees who are using tokens right now?  I don't.  All fthe chargers I have seen do aren't confgured for taking tokens.  I suspect it would be very expensive to modify the existing charging stations to take tokens.  And then ther'e the cost of the ongoing maintance. 

If I were a business ower I think I would really think twice about installing and maintaing a charging station.

This is an example of the chicken and the egg where the chicken destory the egg and wonders why there aren't more chickens around.










 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #358 on: April 15, 2018, 06:28:11 pm »
Another reason EV cars won’t become mainstream is because some the them are assholes too.  I recently drove to a supermarket where they had a couple of EV charging spaces.  Signs around on on the EV charging stations clearly state, “Free EV car charging only while shopping at “Good Food” supermarket.

Similar to my EV parking spaces at hotels being parked in by ICE drivers, the EV charging spaces were being used by people working out in a gym across the street and others not shopping at the market wanting a free charge.  What’s wrong with these people?  If they did this at a gas station it would be called stealing.  But for some reason EV drivers feel they can take energy from businesses for free.

I asked an employee about it, and was told it’s turning into a big problem.  As people find businesses who have free charging they are taking advantage and “stealing” the power without shopping our supporting the business that’s giving them the “free” electricty.

The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.

In this case it’s EV drivers who are preventing the adoption of EV vehicles and installation of charging stations.
There appears to be a straightforward long term solution for this. Stores could operate these chargers as paid for chargers, and give drivers a token at the checkout to get their charge for free.

Yes they could.  But it's at an additional expense.  Yes it can be done but do you know of any commercial chargers for sale today whcih have that feature?  Or any businees who are using tokens right now?  I don't.  All fthe chargers I have seen do aren't confgured for taking tokens.  I suspect it would be very expensive to modify the existing charging stations to take tokens.  And then ther'e the cost of the ongoing maintance. 

If I were a business ower I think I would really think twice about installing and maintaing a charging station.

This is an example of the chicken and the egg where the chicken destory the egg and wonders why there aren't more chickens around.
The commercial chargers I have seen can interact with people's phones. They allow for "clubs", which either don't get charged, or have special rates. It seems unlikely they haven't provided for one off free charges through people's phones, even if they have no support for token schemes.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #359 on: April 15, 2018, 06:32:35 pm »
What’s with people.  These four spaces were clearly marked and reserved for EV charging.  So why do ICE drivers think they can park in EV spaces?  What jerks.

But then I was thinking what if there were five guests who had EVs at this hotel which had only four spaces.  Would one of the four of us get a call at 3:00 in the morning telling us our car was charged and we would he to move it so another guest could get charged?

What’s the etiquette here?

So for one thing, EV drivers are seen as 'smug' (one comment earlier in this thread), 'entitled', 'mooching off free stuff', etc., and people use that notion to justify parking an ICE car in an EV parking spot. Somehow that's seen as 'taking them down a notch'. I've heard my wife's own mother saying we're defrauding our city by charging for free.

As for charging etiquette, there aren't really any 'rules' yet but I did get a card with my home charger that you attach to the charging cord. One side indicates that you are 'opportunity charging', and lists a phone number to call in case you really need the spot. The other side indicates that I really need the charge. So far, nobody has called me to ask for my spot yet.

Commercial charging providers like Chargepoint can partner with multiple businesses so that the cost of operation is split. This neatly solves the common parking lot problem. Even when the charging is free, Chargepoint requires me to swipe an RFID to unlock the charge cable. I suppose they could add a feature where one would need to pay for the charge unless a business 'validates' (similar to parking) the charge session.

All EVs sold in the US have an SAE J1772 socket for level 2 charging. The differences are for level 3, where Tesla has their own proprietary plug. Many Japanese vendors use the CHAdeMO plug, everyone else (including Chevy) use the J1772 combo plug that includes two extra pins for DC charging. I'm guessing Tesla's reason for a proprietary plug is to prevent non-Tesla drivers from charging for free at Supercharger stations. So far, all the DC fast charge stations I've been to have both CHAdeMO and SAE combo plugs.

European EVs use the IEC type-2 connector, which can provide 3-phase power. This uses the same signaling as the single-phase J1772 socket, so a passive adapter can be used. CHAdeMO uses CAN bus for signaling, so one can't devise a passive adapter plug. Not sure what Tesla uses for signaling.


So there are four plugs in use.  That's crazy.  Seems to me when I was at the shopping center there were there were two plugs and neither fit Chevy.  I'm sure this will get worked out with EV companies buying EV companies and and EV compnaies going bankrupt.  But heres the thing...  An ICE has one type of nozlle and I'm assuming that nozzle is exactly the same no mater where one is the world.  I can always get chemical energy delivered from the source to my vehicle.  But when it comes to EVs different story.  The electrical energy can be there in the cable, but due to the differnces in adaptors I might not be able to get that energy into my car eventhough it's right there.





 

Offline radar_macgyver

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #360 on: April 15, 2018, 06:43:37 pm »
Well actually there are two types of nozzles and no fewer than five different kinds of fuel. You can also accidentally fill your car with the wrong one and destroy the engine.  :D

Yeah there's a bit hyperbole and pedantry, but as I mentioned in my post, it really isn't such a big deal particularly for L2 charging.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #361 on: April 15, 2018, 06:47:53 pm »
Another reason EV cars won’t become mainstream is because some the them are assholes too.  I recently drove to a supermarket where they had a couple of EV charging spaces.  Signs around on on the EV charging stations clearly state, “Free EV car charging only while shopping at “Good Food” supermarket.

Similar to my EV parking spaces at hotels being parked in by ICE drivers, the EV charging spaces were being used by people working out in a gym across the street and others not shopping at the market wanting a free charge.  What’s wrong with these people?  If they did this at a gas station it would be called stealing.  But for some reason EV drivers feel they can take energy from businesses for free.

I asked an employee about it, and was told it’s turning into a big problem.  As people find businesses who have free charging they are taking advantage and “stealing” the power without shopping our supporting the business that’s giving them the “free” electricty.

The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.

In this case it’s EV drivers who are preventing the adoption of EV vehicles and installation of charging stations.
There appears to be a straightforward long term solution for this. Stores could operate these chargers as paid for chargers, and give drivers a token at the checkout to get their charge for free.

Yes they could.  But it's at an additional expense.  Yes it can be done but do you know of any commercial chargers for sale today whcih have that feature?  Or any businees who are using tokens right now?  I don't.  All fthe chargers I have seen do aren't confgured for taking tokens.  I suspect it would be very expensive to modify the existing charging stations to take tokens.  And then ther'e the cost of the ongoing maintance. 

If I were a business ower I think I would really think twice about installing and maintaing a charging station.

This is an example of the chicken and the egg where the chicken destory the egg and wonders why there aren't more chickens around.
The commercial chargers I have seen can interact with people's phones. They allow for "clubs", which either don't get charged, or have special rates. It seems unlikely they haven't provided for one off free charges through people's phones, even if they have no support for token schemes.

It's like the car and electrical industry of 100 years ago.  What do customers want.  When it comes to cars do they want External Combustion, Internal combustion or electric cars.  I think the thought at the time was External combustion would be the standard as the technology was established and had been around a long time.  The new comers were ICE and electric cars.  Completey untested and unknon technologies at the time.

And when it came to electrictiy would we use AC or DC?

All it's going to take are asshole EV drivers to keep stealing energy.  And asshole ICE drivers who park in EV spaces to not advance EV cars.  Who would buy an EV car if you can't charge it becaue some ICE car parked in the space?



 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #362 on: April 15, 2018, 07:02:18 pm »
Well actually there are two types of nozzles and no fewer than five different kinds of fuel. You can also accidentally fill your car with the wrong one and destroy the engine.  :D

Yeah there's a bit hyperbole and pedantry, but as I mentioned in my post, it really isn't such a big deal particularly for L2 charging.

Yes but at least you can get the energy into the car's storage tank before you ruin the engine.

With the different plugs the electron are right there at the tip of the charging connector and can't be transferred to the car.



 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #363 on: April 15, 2018, 07:28:23 pm »
The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!' They shouldn't complain people don't pay for the electricity. That should come out of the marketing budget. Ofcourse like in any advertisement campaign some ads work and some ads don't. For the companies that put the charging points there it is all about market penetration to make sure they are ready when it is time to get the profits by having people to pay for charging.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #364 on: April 15, 2018, 07:51:45 pm »
The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!' They shouldn't complain people don't pay for the electricity. That should come out of the marketing budget. Ofcourse like in any advertisement campaign some ads work and some ads don't. For the companies that put the charging points there it is all about market penetration to make sure they are ready when it is time to get the profits by having people to pay for charging.
I think you'll need to provide a much better supporting argument for such an oddball position. The supermarket offers free charging to attract customers. That's a rational marketing expenditure. The customers can't get to use those chargers, because the supermarket has issues with managing their use. In those circumstances removing them and using the marketing budget somewhere else is a rational marketing decision. Using a scheme to tie free charging to purchases is a rational marketing decision. Paying for electricity, charging stations and parking spaces to assist the businesses across the road makes no sense at all. Its bad enough that its impractical in most locations to prevent your car park being filled with the cars of non-patrons. Paying to charge those cars is just adding insult to injury.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #365 on: April 15, 2018, 08:14:16 pm »
The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!' They shouldn't complain people don't pay for the electricity. That should come out of the marketing budget. Ofcourse like in any advertisement campaign some ads work and some ads don't. For the companies that put the charging points there it is all about market penetration to make sure they are ready when it is time to get the profits by having people to pay for charging.
I think you'll need to provide a much better supporting argument for such an oddball position. The supermarket offers free charging to attract customers. That's a rational marketing expenditure. The customers can't get to use those chargers, because the supermarket has issues with managing their use. In those circumstances removing them and using the marketing budget somewhere else is a rational marketing decision. Using a scheme to tie free charging to purchases is a rational marketing decision. Paying for electricity, charging stations and parking spaces to assist the businesses across the road makes no sense at all. Its bad enough that its impractical in most locations to prevent your car park being filled with the cars of non-patrons. Paying to charge those cars is just adding insult to injury.
Why is my statement oddball? You seem surprised that people are using a free charging point at a shop but don't visit that shop. That doesn't surprise me at all because that is basic human behaviour. As you wrote people park where there is space and that doesn't need to be a parking space alloted to a certain shop.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline radar_macgyver

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #366 on: April 15, 2018, 08:23:49 pm »
Oddball or not, you need to back your statements up, else you're not much better than someone on a street corner wearing a sandwich board proclaiming that the end is near.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #367 on: April 15, 2018, 08:32:31 pm »
Oddball or not, you need to back your statements up, else you're not much better than someone on a street corner wearing a sandwich board proclaiming that the end is near.
I don't really see what needs to be backed up here. Again: if you put a free charger in a spot where everyone can use it then it will be used. If you only want certain people to use it then it needs some kind of access control mechanism. What is not to understand about that?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline radar_macgyver

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #368 on: April 15, 2018, 09:11:04 pm »
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!'
That statement, for example.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #369 on: April 15, 2018, 09:17:49 pm »
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!'
That statement, for example.
Why else would a shop have a charging point??? Are they suddenly a gas station? It is added service like free candy for kids, free coffee, free parking space, free wifi, etc to look attractive.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 09:21:05 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline radar_macgyver

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #370 on: April 15, 2018, 09:48:50 pm »
Still not seeing any evidence other than "it's obvious to me".
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #371 on: April 15, 2018, 10:20:07 pm »
The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!' They shouldn't complain people don't pay for the electricity. That should come out of the marketing budget. Ofcourse like in any advertisement campaign some ads work and some ads don't. For the companies that put the charging points there it is all about market penetration to make sure they are ready when it is time to get the profits by having people to pay for charging.

Yes marketing is suppose to attarck customers to shop at theeir store.  These people are taking advanatge of the store and stealing electricy to charge their car withoug even entering the store.

How long do you think a store is going to put up with people stealing from them?


 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #372 on: April 15, 2018, 10:42:15 pm »
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!'
That statement, for example.
Why else would a shop have a charging point??? Are they suddenly a gas station? It is added service like free candy for kids, free coffee, free parking space, free wifi, etc to look attractive.


It is an addesd service for customers.  You appearing to be mixing up customers with freeloaders.  To get the free candy, free cofee or free parking space requires you to be on private property and in the store shopping.  As I stated there are signs saying "Free charging while shoping at the Good Food market".  There is no sign that says free chraging for everyone.   

Don't you think if you are a quest or customers who is on private property you are obligated to abide by the property owners posted rules?
Or are you one of those people who thinks just because someone has an EV they should be able to take electricity from anyone even why you don't have permission?  If so I would like to come over to your house and plug in when my power company is charging me $0.47 kWhr to charge my car.  I would much rather have you pay for the power then pay for it myself.

Seems simple to me.  If enough free loaders steal the electricity and don't shop in the store it will be hard for the store to justify continue offering the free charging and to install free charging at any of their other stores.  The point of marketing is to attract customers.  If customers arring and find the charging spaces full everytime becuase of the freeloaders then theere's no sence in shopping at the store is there.

So getting back to the original question, When will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?   One answer could be when EV owners stop taking advantage of the generosity of business that offer free charges by stealing their electricity.

 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #373 on: April 15, 2018, 11:23:53 pm »
The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!' They shouldn't complain people don't pay for the electricity. That should come out of the marketing budget. Ofcourse like in any advertisement campaign some ads work and some ads don't. For the companies that put the charging points there it is all about market penetration to make sure they are ready when it is time to get the profits by having people to pay for charging.

Yes marketing is suppose to attarck customers to shop at theeir store.  These people are taking advanatge of the store and stealing electricy to charge their car withoug even entering the store.

How long do you think a store is going to put up with people stealing from them?
I'm wondering: do you ever use the toilet in a restaurant, cafe, gas station, etc without buying something? Or visit a shop, look at a product but end up buying it somewhere else?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #374 on: April 15, 2018, 11:45:51 pm »
The guy told me the store will probably remove the EV charging stations as a result.  I’m sure this is not the only business this is happening to.  As word spreads of EV car drivers stealing electricty from businesses there will be fewer business interesting is installing EV chargers.
The shops have the charging points purely for marketing purposes. 'Look how green we are!' They shouldn't complain people don't pay for the electricity. That should come out of the marketing budget. Ofcourse like in any advertisement campaign some ads work and some ads don't. For the companies that put the charging points there it is all about market penetration to make sure they are ready when it is time to get the profits by having people to pay for charging.

Yes marketing is suppose to attarck customers to shop at theeir store.  These people are taking advanatge of the store and stealing electricy to charge their car withoug even entering the store.

How long do you think a store is going to put up with people stealing from them?
I'm wondering: do you ever use the toilet in a restaurant, cafe, gas station, etc without buying something? Or visit a shop, look at a product but end up buying it somewhere else?

Parking in an EV space for hours and using someone else’s electricty to charge an EV when there’s a sign that says “For Customers use Ony while shopping in the store” isn’t exactly the same thing as use the toilet in a restaurant, cafe, gas station, etc without buying something is it?  It would be more akin to taking a dump in the parking lot without even entering the store or offering to clean it up.  But takining a cup is a bodly function.  Charing an electric car for free is a luxury. 

Bottom line.  If people take you attitude and steal electricty to charger their EV, no one iOS going to offer free charging anymore. And there will be less charging stations.  Exactly opposite to spread the adoption of EV.

 


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