Author Topic: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?  (Read 163606 times)

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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2325 on: November 30, 2018, 04:43:03 pm »
Anyone know about the FIRST Tesla electric car, a 1931 Pierce-Arrow Nikola converted to be all eclectic.  And the best part....  It don't have any batteries so no need for charging stations.  Acording to Tesla if ran on the energy from the universe.  That same energy he claimed could power the world.

If only Elon had Tesla's orgininal car we would all be driving aound in electrica cars powered by the universe.
Reference?

In 1931, so the story goes, Tesla took his nephew to a garage in Buffalo, New York, and showed him a modified Pierce-Arrow automobile. The car’s ‘cosmic energy power receiver’ – a black box with 12 vacuum tubes – was connected to a long antenna.

The car was said to have been driven for about 80 km at speeds of up to 140 km/h during an eight-day road test. Tesla allegedly said the device would power the car forever, and also supply the needs of a household “with power to spare”.

It is a fact that in 1898 Tesla filed a patent for a “method of and apparatus for controlling mechanism of moving vessels or vehicles”.

https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/did-nikola-tesla-build-a-revolutionary-electric-car

Your reference concludes it didn't happen.  That patent was for remote control not magic power.


Depends on how you define didn’t happen.  Just like Elon’s EV semi-trucks he’s making claims.  As for seeing one on the road, I haven’t yet and the physics/math sure make it appear to be impossible.  Same for Teslas car which ran on vacuum tubes.  But it appears he did make the claim.  Just as 80 years from now people will look back and see Elon made the claim about having a EV semi and ask where is it?
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2326 on: December 01, 2018, 01:47:21 am »
In a nutshell, what happened is that gasoline cars were better. And still are, today. Jay Leno has a vidjeo of an electric car of that time in youtube.
It's worth noting that EVs have been pushing gasoline engines to be more efficient in order to stay relevant. In particular, the use of the Atkinson cycle has increased dramatically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle#Vehicles_using_Atkinson-cycle_engines
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Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2327 on: December 01, 2018, 01:51:55 am »
In a nutshell, what happened is that gasoline cars were better. And still are, today. Jay Leno has a vidjeo of an electric car of that time in youtube.
It's worth noting that EVs have been pushing gasoline engines to be more efficient in order to stay relevant. In particular, the use of the Atkinson cycle has increased dramatically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle#Vehicles_using_Atkinson-cycle_engines
The Atkinson cycle has only become popular with partial electrification - i.e. hybrids. Its things like SkyactiveX which have moved the efficiency of general purpose combustion engines forwards.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2328 on: December 01, 2018, 06:41:53 am »
In a nutshell, what happened is that gasoline cars were better. And still are, today. Jay Leno has a vidjeo of an electric car of that time in youtube.
It's worth noting that EVs have been pushing gasoline engines to be more efficient in order to stay relevant. In particular, the use of the Atkinson cycle has increased dramatically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle#Vehicles_using_Atkinson-cycle_engines
The Atkinson cycle has only become popular with partial electrification - i.e. hybrids. Its things like SkyactiveX which have moved the efficiency of general purpose combustion engines forwards.

I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2329 on: December 01, 2018, 09:50:51 am »
I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
No, not at all. Better efficiency combined with third generation bio-fuels are the way forward. If we really want to move forward right now then there should be a ban on ICE cars which emit more than 100 grams of CO2 per km. That will be way more effective compared toying around with EVs and hope these will work somewhere within the next 20 years. Also the changeover to 100% bio-fuels will be much easier with more efficient ICE cars. The solution to getting to zero CO2 emissions from cars is that simple.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2330 on: December 01, 2018, 04:18:34 pm »
I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
No, not at all. Better efficiency combined with third generation bio-fuels are the way forward. If we really want to move forward right now then there should be a ban on ICE cars which emit more than 100 grams of CO2 per km. That will be way more effective compared toying around with EVs and hope these will work somewhere within the next 20 years. Also the changeover to 100% bio-fuels will be much easier with more efficient ICE cars. The solution to getting to zero CO2 emissions from cars is that simple.

Latest news on hird gen bio fuels is we have run into a severe technological stumbling block we don’t know how to solve.  Maybe one day we might be able to figure it out, but right now it doens’t look promising.  As a result I thought research money looking into third gen bio fuels was scaled way back making it less likely we will find a solution any time soon.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2331 on: December 01, 2018, 04:29:23 pm »
In a nutshell, what happened is that gasoline cars were better. And still are, today. Jay Leno has a vidjeo of an electric car of that time in youtube.
It's worth noting that EVs have been pushing gasoline engines to be more efficient in order to stay relevant. In particular, the use of the Atkinson cycle has increased dramatically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle#Vehicles_using_Atkinson-cycle_engines
The Atkinson cycle has only become popular with partial electrification - i.e. hybrids. Its things like SkyactiveX which have moved the efficiency of general purpose combustion engines forwards.

I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
I think you are missing the bigger picture. We aren't going to be able to eliminate ICE cars very quickly. Forms of ICE which are a lot more efficient are an important way to minimise the effects of ICE cars during the transition.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2332 on: December 01, 2018, 04:37:26 pm »
I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
No, not at all. Better efficiency combined with third generation bio-fuels are the way forward. If we really want to move forward right now then there should be a ban on ICE cars which emit more than 100 grams of CO2 per km. That will be way more effective compared toying around with EVs and hope these will work somewhere within the next 20 years. Also the changeover to 100% bio-fuels will be much easier with more efficient ICE cars. The solution to getting to zero CO2 emissions from cars is that simple.

Latest news on hird gen bio fuels is we have run into a severe technological stumbling block we don’t know how to solve.  Maybe one day we might be able to figure it out, but right now it doens’t look promising.  As a result I thought research money looking into third gen bio fuels was scaled way back making it less likely we will find a solution any time soon.
DSM is moving ahead and no mentioning of any cut backs in financing:
https://annualreport.dsm.com/ar2017/en_US/7-3-innovation-center.html#H4794108691
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2333 on: December 01, 2018, 05:10:31 pm »
In a nutshell, what happened is that gasoline cars were better. And still are, today. Jay Leno has a vidjeo of an electric car of that time in youtube.
It's worth noting that EVs have been pushing gasoline engines to be more efficient in order to stay relevant. In particular, the use of the Atkinson cycle has increased dramatically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle#Vehicles_using_Atkinson-cycle_engines
The Atkinson cycle has only become popular with partial electrification - i.e. hybrids. Its things like SkyactiveX which have moved the efficiency of general purpose combustion engines forwards.

I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
I think you are missing the bigger picture. We aren't going to be able to eliminate ICE cars very quickly. Forms of ICE which are a lot more efficient are an important way to minimise the effects of ICE cars during the transition.

Agreeded.  In addition, hen refining crude oil there is always going to be some gasoline. 
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2334 on: December 01, 2018, 05:23:15 pm »
I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
No, not at all. Better efficiency combined with third generation bio-fuels are the way forward. If we really want to move forward right now then there should be a ban on ICE cars which emit more than 100 grams of CO2 per km. That will be way more effective compared toying around with EVs and hope these will work somewhere within the next 20 years. Also the changeover to 100% bio-fuels will be much easier with more efficient ICE cars. The solution to getting to zero CO2 emissions from cars is that simple.

Latest news on hird gen bio fuels is we have run into a severe technological stumbling block we don’t know how to solve.  Maybe one day we might be able to figure it out, but right now it doens’t look promising.  As a result I thought research money looking into third gen bio fuels was scaled way back making it less likely we will find a solution any time soon.
DSM is moving ahead and no mentioning of any cut backs in financing:
https://annualreport.dsm.com/ar2017/en_US/7-3-innovation-center.html#H4794108691

That’s just one data point.
Not seeing any specutacular growth in that area with this company either.
Appears what they are doing is developing yeats and enzymes to sell to biomass production companies to increase yields.  Not on next gen bio mass production.  (But then this is all marketing fluff anyway, so hard to tell).  This company is into solar and a bunch of other technologies and just not focused on Net Gen Bio. 

DSM Bio-based Products & Services

As the world increasingly seeks alternatives to fossil resources and progresses toward a more sustainable, bio-renewable economy, significant commercial opportunities are presenting themselves in advanced biofuels and renewable chemical building blocks such as bio-based succinic acid.

DSM Bio-based Products & Services pioneers advances in biomass conversion and seeks to demonstrate the commercial viability of sustainable, renewable technologies in collaboration with strategic partners in the value chain. In particular, DSM has developed patented bioconversion technologies (yeast and enzymes) for various feedstocks and processes (including starch-based and cellulosic) in the biofuels industry. DSM's strategy is to deliver unique and differentiating technologies that enable biofuel plant operators to optimize their processes and maximize their yield and co-product creation. This helps make the production of biofuels even more sustainable.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2335 on: December 01, 2018, 05:35:45 pm »
I think you are missin the bigger picture.....  Goal is to eliminate combustion engines which produce CO2 and green house gasses caused by man which is causing climate change.  Greater efficiency is nice, but what we need to do is try and eliminate it.
No, not at all. Better efficiency combined with third generation bio-fuels are the way forward. If we really want to move forward right now then there should be a ban on ICE cars which emit more than 100 grams of CO2 per km. That will be way more effective compared toying around with EVs and hope these will work somewhere within the next 20 years. Also the changeover to 100% bio-fuels will be much easier with more efficient ICE cars. The solution to getting to zero CO2 emissions from cars is that simple.

Latest news on hird gen bio fuels is we have run into a severe technological stumbling block we don’t know how to solve.  Maybe one day we might be able to figure it out, but right now it doens’t look promising.  As a result I thought research money looking into third gen bio fuels was scaled way back making it less likely we will find a solution any time soon.
DSM is moving ahead and no mentioning of any cut backs in financing:
https://annualreport.dsm.com/ar2017/en_US/7-3-innovation-center.html#H4794108691
That’s just one data point.
So if one fails then all should fail?  :palm:
Quote
Not seeing any specutacular growth in that area with this company either.
But they are definitely not pulling the plug like you suggested. Quite the opposite: they have invested more. And sure DSM is involved in more industries. It is a multi-billion euro company. Not the kind of guys that hold out their hands for some money and go of chasing after a pipe dream.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 05:41:13 pm by nctnico »
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2336 on: December 01, 2018, 10:52:59 pm »
This is just one of their many business.  What about Shell, BP, Cheveron and the others.  are they investing?  Or defunding?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2337 on: December 01, 2018, 11:18:44 pm »
This is just one of their many business.  What about Shell, BP, Cheveron and the others.  are they investing?  Or defunding?
Shell has started a factory in 2017 to turn waste into fuel so it seems they are also investing:
https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/the-energy-future/future-transport/biofuels.html
But you could have found this through Google yourself. The fact is bio-fuel production and use are showing a steady increase for over 10 years. During that period I've noticed more and more gas stations offer the E10 blend for example (besides the standard E5 blend which has been available for IIRC over a decade). However unlike Musk bio-fuel isn't sexy enough to hit the news every day. Kind of a silent revolution but it is happening.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2338 on: December 02, 2018, 07:02:22 am »
And the EV beat goes on.

I was surprised to see that EV sales reached 10% of all auto sales in California in August. And that was before the Tesla Model 3 ramp up!
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2339 on: December 02, 2018, 11:09:15 am »
And the EV beat goes on.

I was surprised to see that EV sales reached 10% of all auto sales in California in August. And that was before the Tesla Model 3 ramp up!
Does that include or exclude plug-in hybrids? Those don't count as an EV.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2340 on: December 02, 2018, 04:23:41 pm »
You may opt may not like Elon or Tesla, but give credit where credit is due.  Elon is changing, no HAS CHANGED our world.    Talk about disruption.... 

With Ford in talks with merging with Volks Wagon and GM closing manufacturing facilities and cutting jobs
 
Model 3 - World Record: 1643 miles in 24 hours (including recharge)

Yet we're led to believe electric cars can't cover long distances in a short amount of time -
@Tesla
 #Model3 - World Record: 1,643 miles in 24 hours (including recharge) ->(link: https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/model-3-world-record-1643-miles-in-24-hours-including-recharge.3866/) insideevsforum.com/community/inde…


Today, my husband and I are thankful for
@elonmusk
. We were saved by our Tesla from a driver going over 60mph. Thank you
@elonmusk
 for making a vehicle safe for our family including our puppy dog Mr.Riley. We’re here with non life threatening injuries. #ElonMusk #teslax #tesla


Tesla just acquired trucking capacity to ensure Model 3 can be delivered in US by Dec 31 if ordered by Nov 30
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2341 on: December 02, 2018, 04:39:05 pm »
But wait, there’s more.....
“What Tesla did is truly astonishin, seats Porche.”
https://electrek.co/2018/12/01/tesla-astonishing-porsche/

And Holden motors in Australia is going change the world by supporting a university class to teach studnets how to write software for self driving cars.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/holden-supports-self-driving-car-university-course/

Do Australians even buy Holden cars?
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2342 on: December 02, 2018, 04:58:57 pm »
And Holden motors in Australia is going change the world by supporting a university class to teach studnets how to write software for self driving cars.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/holden-supports-self-driving-car-university-course/

Do Australians even buy Holden cars?
Australians still buy a steadily falling number of Holden cars, but none are made in Australia these days. The self driving car course seems to be a marketing stunt.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2343 on: December 02, 2018, 05:05:24 pm »
And Holden motors in Australia is going change the world by supporting a university class to teach studnets how to write software for self driving cars.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/holden-supports-self-driving-car-university-course/

Do Australians even buy Holden cars?
Australians still buy a steadily falling number of Holden cars, but none are made in Australia these days. The self driving car course seems to be a marketing stunt.

Where are they made now?
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2344 on: December 02, 2018, 05:09:48 pm »
And Holden motors in Australia is going change the world by supporting a university class to teach studnets how to write software for self driving cars.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/holden-supports-self-driving-car-university-course/

Do Australians even buy Holden cars?
Australians still buy a steadily falling number of Holden cars, but none are made in Australia these days. The self driving car course seems to be a marketing stunt.

Where are they made now?
They seem to be a bunch of GM cars made in various parts of Asia, badged up as Holdens.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2345 on: December 02, 2018, 05:21:07 pm »
You may opt may not like Elon or Tesla, but give credit where credit is due.  Elon is changing, no HAS CHANGED our world.    Talk about disruption.... 

With Ford in talks with merging with Volks Wagon and GM closing manufacturing facilities and cutting jobs
 
Model 3 - World Record: 1643 miles in 24 hours (including recharge)

Yet we're led to believe electric cars can't cover long distances in a short amount of time -
They can't. That is an average speed of 109km/h in a country where there is no speed limit.  :palm: FFS! My wife & I cruise at 150km/h through Germany and at 130km/h through other countries. My wife and I would need less than 18 hours to cover the same distance @ 150km/h through Germany.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 05:23:31 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2346 on: December 02, 2018, 05:25:32 pm »
And Holden motors in Australia is going change the world by supporting a university class to teach studnets how to write software for self driving cars.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/holden-supports-self-driving-car-university-course/

Do Australians even buy Holden cars?
Australians still buy a steadily falling number of Holden cars, but none are made in Australia these days. The self driving car course seems to be a marketing stunt.

Where are they made now?
They seem to be a bunch of GM cars made in various parts of Asia, badged up as Holdens.

Sounds like what the Chinese do.  They sell a product with the name of a well known defunct or bankrupt American company when really it’s a Chinese product.   Polaroid, Westinghouse, Kodak are just a few that come to mind.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2347 on: December 02, 2018, 05:28:43 pm »
You may opt may not like Elon or Tesla, but give credit where credit is due.  Elon is changing, no HAS CHANGED our world.    Talk about disruption.... 

With Ford in talks with merging with Volks Wagon and GM closing manufacturing facilities and cutting jobs
 
Model 3 - World Record: 1643 miles in 24 hours (including recharge)

Yet we're led to believe electric cars can't cover long distances in a short amount of time -
They can't. That is an average speed of 109km/h in a country where there is no speed limit.  :palm: FFS! My wife & I cruise at 150km/h through Germany and at 130km/h through other countries. My wife and I would need less than 18 hours to cover the same distance @ 150km/h through Germany.

Guess I’m not understanding you.  They claim to have done it, yet you say they can’t?  Can you explain?
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2348 on: December 02, 2018, 05:34:46 pm »
Sounds like what the Chinese do.  They sell a product with the name of a well known defunct or bankrupt American company when really it’s a Chinese product.   Polaroid, Westinghouse, Kodak are just a few that come to mind.
Its not just the Chinese. Defunct names have been bought up in bulk by various growing economies, and often used in odd ways. For example Grundig never made kitchen appliances, but Grundig is now a name on fridges and washing machines made in Turkey. You also see names which are still being used for their original purpose by the original company, but licenced out for adjunct products. e.g. Kenwood is still a food mixer maker, now owned by DeLonghi, but they have licenced out the name Kenwood for the UK retailer Currys to put on the front of some Asian fridges.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2349 on: December 02, 2018, 05:48:15 pm »
You may opt may not like Elon or Tesla, but give credit where credit is due.  Elon is changing, no HAS CHANGED our world.    Talk about disruption.... 

With Ford in talks with merging with Volks Wagon and GM closing manufacturing facilities and cutting jobs
 
Model 3 - World Record: 1643 miles in 24 hours (including recharge)

Yet we're led to believe electric cars can't cover long distances in a short amount of time -
They can't. That is an average speed of 109km/h in a country where there is no speed limit.  :palm: FFS! My wife & I cruise at 150km/h through Germany and at 130km/h through other countries. My wife and I would need less than 18 hours to cover the same distance @ 150km/h through Germany.
Guess I’m not understanding you.  They claim to have done it, yet you say they can’t?  Can you explain?
Emphasis added. Either way your post about the 'world record' clearly underlines why EVs don't work well for long distances because the time needed for charging makes the effective speed go down a lot. There is also a world record for the fastest snail: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/70393-fastest-snail-racing An equally useful record.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 05:53:22 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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