Author Topic: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?  (Read 459915 times)

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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3525 on: March 06, 2019, 10:59:59 am »
You are correct about nctnico.  He has a long history of posting false and misleading information.  The sad part is he doen’t learn.  When people point out what’s wrong with his post he just continues to insist he’s correct without proving any proof.
 

Offline apis

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3526 on: March 06, 2019, 11:04:50 am »
According to this graph electricity is even more expensive in the UK compared to the Netherlands:
<snip>
From: http://euanmearns.com/energy-prices-in-europe/
That website looks like a pro-oil blog, or at least not particularly reliable, so I wouldn't trust that graph.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3527 on: March 06, 2019, 11:17:50 am »
According to this graph electricity is even more expensive in the UK compared to the Netherlands:
<snip>
From: http://euanmearns.com/energy-prices-in-europe/
That website looks like a pro-oil blog, or at least not particularly reliable, so I wouldn't trust that graph.
It is a random pick from Google which at least had some recent data. There are probably other (even more recent) graphs out there but I doubt they will show something different.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 11:20:46 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3528 on: March 06, 2019, 11:21:04 am »
Just check your bill. I'm paying around 23 eurocents (17p) per kWh (which is about average for the NL) and all lists I can find show electricity is more expensive in the UK. Something isn't right.

I pay 18p/KWh because I use a more expensive supplier (my choice), i know what i pay. You are just peddaling BS to make a non argument. Infact i pay way less than that because I generate my own anyway and once the cost went over 12p/KWh the battery systems become viable. Daily connection charges which you will pay anyway because your house needs power anyway are under 20p/day.
So you are not paying 8p per kWh then and get electricity for free out of thin air? Who is peddaling BS here?

Show use how your battery system can be cost effective at that price point. I ran some numbers on Tesla's powerwall and came to the conclusion that it costs around 30 eurocents to store 1kWh in it.

I TOLD YOU THE PRICES! there are different tariffs. If you want to charge a car you go on economy 7 and pay 8-9p/KWh. You are the one telling lies.

just go here and try it: https://www.moneysupermarket.com/gas-and-electricity/gas-and-electricity/?p=0&cicp1=&source=GOO-00003A73&mckv=sBILE2p3G|dc_pcrid_219283378075_mtype_e_kword_electricity%20costs_2764ri918980_slid__pgrid_3412251394_ptaid_aud-457883188026:kwd-41251250&uuid=11111111-1111-1111-1111-111111111111&Device=c&engine=google&ptaid=aud-457883188026%3Akwd-41251250&gclid=CjwKCAiA_P3jBRAqEiwAZyWWaFJXWHjlmaK8snUcto-D8c_obzdQIwhMJdIaTD9DZR5RADRaABYk3RoC8JYQAvD_BwE&adloc=1007208&pgrid=3412251394
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3529 on: March 06, 2019, 11:22:34 am »
According to this graph electricity is even more expensive in the UK compared to the Netherlands:
<snip>
From: http://euanmearns.com/energy-prices-in-europe/
That website looks like a pro-oil blog, or at least not particularly reliable, so I wouldn't trust that graph.
It is a random pick from Google which at least had some recent data. There are probably other (even more recent) graphs out there but I doubt they will show something different.

So now you arguments are based on some random information on the internet? Do you know who the last person was that said: "All i know is what i read on the internet" as though it was an excuse for telling lies? yes Donald Trump!
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3530 on: March 06, 2019, 11:28:20 am »
No, I'm offering a reference to back my story. Feel free to come up with another source. These kind of graphs aren't hard to find and they are based on numbers provided by statistics bureaus. There isn't anything un-scientific about them.\

By the way I tried the energy comparison website with a random address in London. This is the cheapest I can get:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 11:34:52 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3531 on: March 06, 2019, 11:32:40 am »
You are telling me that I am lying about the price of electricity in the UK. I told you that you can use the internet properly and go and look at the prices of a UK energy supplier! but ypou are too lazy and "what you found on the internet" conveniently suits your narrative. Same old tactics used by certain politicians!
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3532 on: March 06, 2019, 11:36:59 am »
You are telling me that I am lying about the price of electricity in the UK. I told you that you can use the internet properly and go and look at the prices of a UK energy supplier! but ypou are too lazy and "what you found on the internet" conveniently suits your narrative. Same old tactics used by certain politicians!
Putting up a smoke screen by name calling isn't a very good tactic to make a good argument for your case. Not saying you are lying. I'm just saying that I'm missing the numbers which back your claim.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3533 on: March 06, 2019, 11:50:13 am »
Just check your bill. I'm paying around 23 eurocents (17p) per kWh (which is about average for the NL) and all lists I can find show electricity is more expensive in the UK. Something isn't right.
I pay 18p/KWh because I use a more expensive supplier (my choice), i know what i pay. You are just peddaling BS to make a non argument. Infact i pay way less than that because I generate my own anyway and once the cost went over 12p/KWh the battery systems become viable. Daily connection charges which you will pay anyway because your house needs power anyway are under 20p/day.
I don't know where you are buying your electricity from Simon, I am also in the UK (Norfolk) and use Ebico one of the cheapest available and its 20p/Kwh FACT! If I chose a dual tariff for cheaper overnight charging my daytime costs rise in proportion so I save nothing. Alternatively I could go for a standing charge free tariff that gives me a lower cost per Kwh but then I would have to use an awful lot of Kwh to get back to square one.

There is no point in quoting unrealistically low electricity prices the same as there is no point in quoting manufacturers consumption/efficiency figures as most of us have long learnt to ignore them!
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3534 on: March 06, 2019, 12:04:47 pm »
I'm paying 18p with ecotricity. I just left a supplier that was messing me about that just put their prices up to 14p, you can always check the ecotricity website.......
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3535 on: March 06, 2019, 12:08:01 pm »
Just check your bill. I'm paying around 23 eurocents (17p) per kWh (which is about average for the NL) and all lists I can find show electricity is more expensive in the UK. Something isn't right.
I pay 18p/KWh because I use a more expensive supplier (my choice), i know what i pay. You are just peddaling BS to make a non argument. Infact i pay way less than that because I generate my own anyway and once the cost went over 12p/KWh the battery systems become viable. Daily connection charges which you will pay anyway because your house needs power anyway are under 20p/day.
I don't know where you are buying your electricity from Simon, I am also in the UK (Norfolk) and use Ebico one of the cheapest available and its 20p/Kwh FACT! If I chose a dual tariff for cheaper overnight charging my daytime costs rise in proportion so I save nothing. Alternatively I could go for a standing charge free tariff that gives me a lower cost per Kwh but then I would have to use an awful lot of Kwh to get back to square one.

There is no point in quoting unrealistically low electricity prices the same as there is no point in quoting manufacturers consumption/efficiency figures as most of us have long learnt to ignore them!

Yes day rates do increase but whe do you use.your electricity?  If you would save $50-$75 per month on electricty would you change when you use electricty?  That’s what we did, and I know many others who have done the same.

We now buy 75%-80% of our electricty at the low rate.

 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3536 on: March 06, 2019, 12:09:55 pm »
You are telling me that I am lying about the price of electricity in the UK. I told you that you can use the internet properly and go and look at the prices of a UK energy supplier! but ypou are too lazy and "what you found on the internet" conveniently suits your narrative. Same old tactics used by certain politicians!
Perhaps you could post your evidence including taxes to get a step further instead of rejecting the other parties quotes ?
BTW, I find your use of language in the last couple of posts not suiting your status of a moderator Simon, I will R2M to Dave because this is really setting the wrong tone IMO.
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3537 on: March 06, 2019, 12:13:15 pm »
You are telling me that I am lying about the price of electricity in the UK. I told you that you can use the internet properly and go and look at the prices of a UK energy supplier! but ypou are too lazy and "what you found on the internet" conveniently suits your narrative. Same old tactics used by certain politicians!
Perhaps you could post your evidence including taxes to get a step further instead of rejecting the other parties quotes ?
BTW, I find your use of language in the last couple of posts not suiting your status of a moderator Simon, I will R2M to Dave because this is really setting the wrong tone IMO.

I was not the one making repeated false statements. So now I have to prove myself? like i said just look at any UK supplier website and you will find out the truth! if I had the time to waste I'd blank out my address on my bill and post a copy because apparently I can't read my own bills now!
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3538 on: March 06, 2019, 12:16:11 pm »
That was not my real point, it was that you are shouting and ranting and that sets a bad example for other users since you are a moderator of this forum.
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3539 on: March 06, 2019, 12:21:45 pm »
No, I am calling a liar a liar! nctnico is a liar! fact. He has repeatedly stated that what he says is correct despite me explaining that his prices are wrong ond i know they are because I pay for electricity in the UK! He has refused to say he is wrong and took a long time to drop the matter after many challenges and his excuse is that he found this data on the internet. We know what misinformation breeds and it will not be tolerated here!
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3540 on: March 06, 2019, 12:33:31 pm »
Part of my bill, and as I said I am using an expensive supplier.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3541 on: March 06, 2019, 12:39:56 pm »
How do I read this then ? For electricity it says 44kWh 17 pounds that would be 38p / kWh. ?
It says 17p per kWh and a standing charge of 27p
Aren't you looking at the gas price instead of electricity?

 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3542 on: March 06, 2019, 12:44:16 pm »
I said my electricity is 18p, add 5% tax to that 17p and you get the 18p. Standing charges are irrilevant here. We are talking about the price of electricity to charge a car. You already have your house connected to the grid and have to pay the standing charge before you worry about an electric car. Again I am using an expensive supplier, others charge way less like 18p.

My bill looks expensive because I have used nearly nothing and there is more in standing charges, this is because I have just got solar and now the sun is out. I will use 2MWh per year but I will generate 5.3MWh per year.
 

Online coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3543 on: March 06, 2019, 12:44:55 pm »
How do I read this then ? For electricity it says 44kWh 17 pounds that would be 38p / kWh. ?
It says 17p per kWh and a standing charge of 27p
Aren't you looking at the gas price instead of electricity?
His statement shows you the price per kWh - 17.42 pence + 5% VAT. His final bill looks high because he uses very little electricity, so his daily 27.75p + 5% VAT standing charge really biases the final bill up. For people who use a more typical amount of electricity, the daily standing charge wouldn't distort things so much
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3544 on: March 06, 2019, 01:06:44 pm »
No, I am calling a liar a liar! nctnico is a liar! fact. He has repeatedly stated that what he says is correct despite me explaining that his prices are wrong ond i know they are because I pay for electricity in the UK! He has refused to say he is wrong and took a long time to drop the matter after many challenges and his excuse is that he found this data on the internet. We know what misinformation breeds and it will not be tolerated here!

Thank you for for your post.  I have given nctnico the benefit of the doubt for being uneducated, but you are right he’s nothing more than a liar.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3545 on: March 06, 2019, 01:12:29 pm »
Part of my bill, and as I said I am using an expensive supplier.
Sorry but I'm still waiting to see the 8p/kWh number... and while you are at it: how & where that applies. Perhaps only for people (like Boffin) living near a hydro plant so transportation costs and CO2 taxes are near zero.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:17:32 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3546 on: March 06, 2019, 01:26:42 pm »
Part of my bill, and as I said I am using an expensive supplier.
Sorry but I'm still waiting to see the 8p/kWh number... and while you are at it: how & where that applies. Perhaps only for people (like Boffin) living near a hydro plant so transportation costs and CO2 taxes are near zero.

I said 8-9p and i said that is on economy 7, which is a tariff I am not on. And you con still go look up the tariffs if you want but you refuse. If i was on economy 7 I would pay more by day. People on economy 7 usually have something big to power at night like a car or heating. I am on solar so i just take the standard tariff. If I wanted I could charge my house battery at night if the difference was big enough.

If I had an electric car which I would struggle to charge on solar I would got economy 7 and I would pay 8-9p which if the claims for EV are true of 250Wh/mile is 2-3p/mile.
 

Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3547 on: March 06, 2019, 01:34:12 pm »
Standing charges are irrilevant here. We are talking about the price of electricity to charge a car. You already have your house connected to the grid and have to pay the standing charge before you worry about an electric car.
Sorry I disagree, the standing charge is part of the cost of energy and if you are paying it separately should be accounted for by adding it to the cost per Kwh. If you choose a tariff like me without standing charge then it is not true to say it was present before I started charging a car.  The choice of tariff style (with/without standing charge) comes down to how much energy you use, my style is energy saving hence it is cheaper for me to do without the standing charge.

As for overnight use I had to smile at the suggestion I should use most of my energy at night, I can only assume the poster is nocturnal, as for me I prefer to sleep at night and work and cook during the day :)

I don't know if the figure quoted for energy consumption includes battery and charger efficiency, in any case the idea of adding 60Kw/h to my present 3Kw/h per day is eye watering! BUT I am happy to admit each for his own and it may work for some people :)
 

Online Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3548 on: March 06, 2019, 01:40:14 pm »
most people have a fixed standing charge and they are using electricity anfway. This means that if you choose to also put electricity in a car that is just more use. Rarely is it that a tariff has no charge.

For me a car and economy 7 would be perfect because in the day I do not need grid power with my batteries and a car could be charged overnight. Ultimately my car which is a little 1.25L fiesta costs me 15p per mile in petrol so there is ample difference to pay for the battery lease and I once did some rough calculations that put my break even annual mileage at 7000 miles and I would start to save 10+p/mile. The othor thing to consider in running costs is servicing and in principle an electric car is simpler.
 

Offline george80

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3549 on: March 06, 2019, 03:29:24 pm »
Rarely is it that a tariff has no charge.

This is a good point I hadn't thought of or factored in to my calculations.

Here virtually everyone that has put on solar in the last few years ( and converted beyond that as I have) heats their hot water with it through the day instead of feeding back to the grid and getting less as a FIT than they would pay for Off peak hot water.

To be able to charge a car at night, You would have to put the off peak back on which depending in the retailer is ballpark $200 and then you have to pay the Offpeak  supply charge as well. You would have to pay for a charging point to be installed which would require a special high amp circuit to be run from the meter box.  Depending on what you already have hooked up to the home, You would then either have to go to 3 phase which is thousands to have connected as they have to run new wires from the pole OR you would have to have a high amp single phase supply connected and the Meter box and meters ( which the home owner in most cases now pays for ) upgraded as well as the cost of the connection being run to the garage.

Either way you cut it, it's several thousand  bux PLUS the charging unit itself.  there is also the additional off peak supply charge to be added in.

It IS more exy to run an EV here but all this is even more added expense I hadn't thought of.
Come to think of it, pretty sure offpeak is current limited and the high current supply is different and more exy again.  I also have an inkling that there are KWH limitations and as you use more ( in large blocks) the price goes UP rather than down. Might seem odd to some but our water here works the same way.
 


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