### Author Topic: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?  (Read 177289 times)

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#### george80

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3700 on: March 09, 2019, 02:39:35 am »

A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=20kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*20kWh=4600kWh just for one person to go to work.

According to the energy use comparison chart from my power company which services about 5 million people, The average power consumption for a 2 person home is about 16 KWH a day and a 4 person is about 22 KWH/ day.

Statistics also show like the US and Canada, average home ownership is about 2.4 cars per household.

But lets  take 20 Km as a number. Someone in the UK will say they travel a 10/th of that and someone in the US will say it's 10 times that but I think 10 KM each way is on the short side here but we'll go with it. In the US the figure is 16 miles which is 20 KM and that adds up with what I can find for oz as a minimum.

IF the average house is using 20KWh a day and the average EV is going to use 20KWh day, you just doubled the domestic power consumption levels. For one car.  No one I know has just one car or resident going to work each day.  Mimimum is 2, average would be 4 Max whom I visited yesterday is 7.

The average says 2 so we just tripled the house hold consumption and that is if people are only going 20 KM.  Thinking of my friends and associates, no one lives that close to work. Even before we moved here and my wife worked in the same council area as which we lived, her commute was 12 Km each way and everyone would say wasn't it good she lives so close? When my kids were at school the trip was 14 Km each way for primary and 11 when they went to high school.

The amount of power EV's are going to require is constantly downplayed but here were we can't even turn on the AC on hot days when the solar generation is at it's highest without blackouts, being able to support triple at least the donmestic power consumption is going to be a miracle.  Yes, it will come in gradualy but I was reading a report by an industry body the other night that said there is no planned significan't increase in power generation planned atm and even if there was, from concept through approval to construction to completeion is 5 years minimum.

Yeah, there are a bunch of unreliables planned and in the process but as Impressive as they sound on their own, are another half drop of water in the swimming pool let alone the bucket.

I have been telling a few people about my Home generators I have been working on of late and much to my great surprise, even those whom I was sure would ridicule it as another of my hair brained ideas and muching around have had nothing but compliments and sad agreement that it's more than a worthwhile thing and a good idea.  Main comment has been can you came and put one in at my house when you have finished yours?
I'm very surprised at how many people are aware of the problems here with power and are due far more credit than I gave them.

Most also see that we are heading in opposing directions. Taking dependable  thermal power generation out of the equation to replace it with more unreliables at the same time we are planning to go down a road which will require massively more power.
There is going to be a BIG shortfall and it's coming quick.  We are already starting behind the 8 ball and playing catch up but then again I don't know a lot of places other than a couple that have power to spare before we start down the EV road.

Quote
I also disagree about low maintenance costs. A lot of the charging points will be public and subject to weather and abuse.

While I am not against Hydrogen I don't see it as a competitor on a mainstream scale.
That said, reading through several comments here going on about the amount and cost of infrastructure to get it to common use is funny as Fk in it's hypocrisy.

I can't tell if people are really that stupid, ignorant or just kidding themselves and trying it on with others that the transition to EVs is going to be simple and such a walk up start. Pretty much for every objection they level at hydrogen the same could be leveled at electric. Just because we have power generators or whatever type and poles and wires coming to our homes does not mean they are OK or will automaticaly support EV's.

Clearly as usualy, people are completely ignorant to electrical principals and whats involved.
I spose if you don't know how to Run a new power circuit for an outlet in your own home and thing that's a job only a professional should handle, then it is easy to see how people can be ignorant and not have a clue of what is involved with changing over the domestic fleet or any significan't part of it to EV's.

But Ill just wait for the retorts about how cheap, easy straight forward is all going to be and sit back and have a laugh.

It will be really amusing to come back to these threads in 5 years time and read all about how cheap batteries are going to become and how ev's will be cheaper to drive and there will be plenty of power for them and recharging will never be a problem and all these things people are so adamant about. Maybe by then we will have all been educated in practical knowledge to a lot of things none of us have thought of.  I'm sure some of my thoughts will be proven wrong but I'm damned sure a lot of the EV evangelists are going to have egg laid by elephants on their faces with the things they are trying to push which will be shown up as fallacy.

#### DougSpindler

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3701 on: March 09, 2019, 04:19:30 am »
Found a video about filling/ putting 1kg of hydrogen in a car in around one minute.

And then there's the truth about Hydrogen cars nctinco intentionally doesn't mention.

https://youtu.be/f7MzFfuNOtY

#### george80

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3702 on: March 09, 2019, 04:38:33 am »
There is a ton of scientific studies out there. The world health organisation has a page about air-pollution you can take a look at to begin with: https://www.who.int/news-room/air-pollution

They prove exactly what I said perfectly.

When I look at the first link the sub headlines on the first page are:

Air pollution levels remain dangerously high in many parts of the world. New data from WHO shows that 9 out of 10 people breathe air containing high levels of pollutants.
WHO estimates that around 7 million people die every year from exposure to polluted air.
Ambient air pollution alone caused some 4.2 million deaths in 2016, while household air pollution from cooking with polluting fuels and technologies caused an estimated 3.8 million deaths in the same period.

They Bundle coal in with industry ( which by extrapolation including the building of EV's and filthy proces for components like battery chemistry) and they make mention of Cooking with biomass in the 3rd world but I could NOT find anything that specifically and uniquely pointed to coal even after doing a site search. The closest match was again using it as a fuel source in the 3rd world which closing power plants in the first wold is not going to affect in any way.

I can only assume if coal were such a terrible killer it would be a headline with the numbers for the 3rd world cooking.
As there was nothing I could find unique to Coal, at very least I have to call into question the measuring process and the parroted mantras it is so bad. If they had specific and verifiable numbers, I have no doubt they would be right there.

If you know of parts of that site that specifically address coal from power station generation, I'd be interested to read it.

The second link again proves my point.
All ESTIMATES from various ( green biased) organisations that state something as irrefutable gospel but no explanation of how these ESTIMATES were calculated nor the source .
Tobacco industry once said smoking was not harmful as well so forgive me if I just take things which logic and experience tell me is questionable with blind and unquestionable faith.

Sorry, ZERO credibility in my book. Like I said, If I put up a link that said unreliables killed so many people per year, the first thing would be what's the source, how did they calculate it?  where were the surveys done, what safety procedures were in place and so it would go so it cuts both ways.

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For example, Iaea estimated less than 4000 premature deaths from Chernobyl, while a more commonly cited figure is 30000. In either case it's peanuts compared to premature deaths caused by air-pollution from coal power _every year_.

My points proven again!
1, figures from biased sources cannot be trusted without verification,
2. You are saying one number is  insignificant to the other when the number you favour is also an estimate from a biased source with no explanation of how it was calculated !

Why are nuke deaths peanuts compared to coal power when we haven't even established a credible figure, just "estimates".

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If you look at the civilian nuclear energy industry as a whole, and calculate the average deaths per kWh produced, nuclear is even safer than solar power according to some:

Yep, there is always a way to spin numbers and statistics to say what you want.
How about we crunch the numbers for the cost of cleanup and the lives lost in doing so for coal plant accidents and Nuke accidents.
Lets give the Nuke side a head start and we'll just include Chernobyl, Fukishima and 3 Mile island.  You can heap together all the accidents on record for coal.

Lets look at all the radiation released into the oceans  directly attributable to coal through unique isotopes  that could have come from no where else as against those that are only found in nuke reactors and are not naturally occurring.
Lets have a look at the amount of people evacuated and displaced by nuke accidents  as against those evacuated, displaces and never allowed to return to their homes from coal  accidents .  How about how many towns and citys are permanently off limits due  to the accidents and emissions from coal plants compared to nuke plants.

The old "air travel is the safest form of transport" crap won't wash with me.  You can shoot that down just by changing the parameters from miles traveled to number of journeys taken and then planes don't looks so hot.  Clearly the same with the nuke debate.

Maybe we could look at how many tons of coal ash lies in unuseable stockpiles of containers and is buried in mountains  for eternity because a drum of the stuff could potentialy wipe out thousands of acres of land, poison water tables and lay waste to everything it contaminated.  Coal is used in concrete, roads and other building materials and can easily not only be disposed of but put to practical use.

Yes, coal ash IS radio active but so are bananas and just like bananas, coal ash does not contain hot particles that if ingested have a 99% of causing a cancer that will kill you in a painful and indignant  death.

I really don't know why people try to defend something like nuke. The green washed are always going on about " The children and future generations" Crap yet  no regard is paid to this in the nuke support.

I'd rather only have power during the day when the sun was shining than have a Nuke plant anywhere in the country giving free power 24/7.

#### DougSpindler

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3703 on: March 09, 2019, 04:56:58 am »
Something else nctnico isn't saying about hydrogen cars.... The money.

The State of California is spending $200 million to get the development of Hydrogen cars moving along. Want some free government funding? Just hold out your hand, smile and say the magic word, "Hydrogen powered car" and money will shower upon you. But only if you ignore the science. Really wish nctnico would do a bit of research and thinking before posting. https://youtu.be/r5b6SthDbsE #### george80 • Regular Contributor • Banned! • Posts: 214 • Country: ##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream? « Reply #3704 on: March 09, 2019, 04:58:24 am » A video by a tesla owner bagging out Hydrogen. YA! That would be fair and unbiased with a very balanced assessment of the pros and cons of the technology wouldn't it.? Again, I don't have anything for or against hydrogen but the biggest bullshit there is the video itself and the obvious bias of the person producing it. Not really relevant to the producer, more contrevery it creates the more views he gets the more revenue he makes. Good luck to him. He''s certainly smart enough to appeal to a huge and supportive audience. I should do some similar clickbait vids and watch people hold them out as creditable. Let me find a vid of a guy with a souped up F-350 Diesel that's done a vid on why EV's are bullshit and watch the fireworks and screaming protests from the EV crowd. -IF- hydrogen ever gets any legs, and it's far from a better or worse than EV contest, we could very well have another Beta VHS quandry. Difference this time will the there will be some VERY big fingers in the pie making it more of a corporate global war than anything else. Wont matter which one is better or worse, the winner will be the one whom makes the advertising agency's the richest. #### george80 • Regular Contributor • Banned! • Posts: 214 • Country: ##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream? « Reply #3705 on: March 09, 2019, 05:15:14 am » The State of California is spending$200 million to get the development of Hydrogen cars moving along.

How much have they spent on EV subsidies and infrastructure?

Wasn't  there a federal subsidy @ $7500 per car till dec 18 then another at$3750 till July then 1850 till dec '19.
What is the all up cost of that going to be?
I don't know but given the amount of vehicles coming out and what Tesla alone has already sold, i'd say it kinda makes $200M look like a bargain in comparison doesn't it? #### boffin • Supporter • Posts: 917 • Country: ##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream? « Reply #3706 on: March 09, 2019, 05:36:33 am » A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=20kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*20kWh=4600kWh just for one person to go to work. No wonder you guys don't get it. You don't understand basic math. Perhaps you can find a 4th grader and have them help you with your multiplication. #### GeorgeOfTheJungle • Super Contributor • Posts: 2279 • Country: ##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream? « Reply #3707 on: March 09, 2019, 10:09:14 am » Boffin many of your posts and your own website is (was?) full of silly mistakes like that, last time I checked. *** SERIOUSLY, GENTLEMEN, TRY BRAVE *** https://brave.com/ #### DougSpindler • Super Contributor • Posts: 1157 • Country: ##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream? « Reply #3708 on: March 09, 2019, 10:42:31 am » The State of California is spending$200 million to get the development of Hydrogen cars moving along.

How much have they spent on EV subsidies and infrastructure?

Wasn't  there a federal subsidy @ $7500 per car till dec 18 then another at$3750 till July then 1850 till dec '19.
What is the all up cost of that going to be?
I don't know but given the amount of vehicles coming out and what Tesla alone has already sold, i'd say it kinda makes $200M look like a bargain in comparison doesn't it? You are right about the fed, but it was not a subsidy it was/is a tax credit. The state did have a$2,500 cash rebate on EVs plus another $500 from the power company. The state, not the feds are in vesting the$200 million to build 100 hydrogen refueling stations.  I guess the thought is with one state having 100 hydrogen fueling stations all of the car manufacturers will start producing hydrogen cars.  Silly politicians they think spending money to build refueling stations can change the laws of physics.

#### nctnico

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3709 on: March 09, 2019, 11:08:48 am »

A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=20kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*20kWh=4600kWh just for one person to go to work.

No wonder you guys don't get it.  You don't understand basic math.  Perhaps you can find a 4th grader and have them help you with your multiplication.
Sorry you are right. Well spotted. In my defense: It was late. With the right numbers it looks at lot more doable:

A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=2kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*2kWh=460kWh just for one person to go to work. It still is a big chunk of the electricity usage of one person and as Goerge80 mentioned this number is on the low side.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 11:11:27 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

#### Simon

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3710 on: March 09, 2019, 11:18:41 am »

A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=20kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*20kWh=4600kWh just for one person to go to work.

No wonder you guys don't get it.  You don't understand basic math.  Perhaps you can find a 4th grader and have them help you with your multiplication.
Sorry you are right. Well spotted. In my defense: It was late. With the right numbers it looks at lot more doable:

A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=2kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*2kWh=460kWh just for one person to go to work. It still is a big chunk of the electricity usage of one person and as Goerge80 mentioned this number is on the low side.

My annual usage is 2MW, about 4 times that, my annul self generation is estimated at 5.3MW, since the beginning of the year I have already generated 600KW. As we already know ICE vehicles will use more power per mile/Km. If cost was not an object i could be self sufficient. My 13 mile round trip to work each day would use 5.2KWh, anually (assuming i drive the same every day I don't go to work too) I would use sub 2MWh.
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#### nctnico

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3711 on: March 09, 2019, 11:54:07 am »
There is a ton of scientific studies out there. The world health organisation has a page about air-pollution you can take a look at to begin with: https://www.who.int/news-room/air-pollution

They prove exactly what I said perfectly.

When I look at the first link the sub headlines on the first page are:

Air pollution levels remain dangerously high in many parts of the world. New data from WHO shows that 9 out of 10 people breathe air containing high levels of pollutants.
WHO estimates that around 7 million people die every year from exposure to polluted air.
Ambient air pollution alone caused some 4.2 million deaths in 2016, while household air pollution from cooking with polluting fuels and technologies caused an estimated 3.8 million deaths in the same period.

They Bundle coal in with industry ( which by extrapolation including the building of EV's and filthy proces for components like battery chemistry) and they make mention of Cooking with biomass in the 3rd world but I could NOT find anything that specifically and uniquely pointed to coal even after doing a site search. The closest match was again using it as a fuel source in the 3rd world which closing power plants in the first wold is not going to affect in any way.
Apis linked to a more scientific report earlier. Also other sources underwrite these conclusions. I guess it is like smoking: it has been accepted for such a long time that it is hard to convince people it is very bad for your health.

The Dutch government doesn't deny coal causes premature deaths but basically says it is an acceptable risk (in Dutch):
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/binaries/rijksoverheid/documenten/kamerstukken/2019/02/21/beantwoording-kamervragen-over-het-rapport-%E2%80%98last-gasp-the-coal-companies-making-europe-sick%E2%80%99/beantwoording-kamervragen-over-het-rapport-%E2%80%98last-gasp-the-coal-companies-making-europe-sick%E2%80%99.pdf

I find it interesting Greenpeace et al don't focus on this more. But that would probably force them to say nuclear is the best option after all
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

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#### Simon

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3712 on: March 09, 2019, 12:08:27 pm »
I find it interesting that all politicians including local one that make stupid infrastructure decisions that cause traffic jams don't thing of mugs like me sitting in traffic breathing in fumes! and yes i know i am i can smell it when it's a calm day and half the town is grid loked. i usually drive around with the air on re-circ but have to tun the air con on to stop the car misting up so i make even more fumes.....
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#### DougSpindler

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3713 on: March 09, 2019, 01:57:44 pm »
As for the accidental death and heath risks anyone done a comparison for the different energy sources?

Coal is at the top of the list for accidental death.  Mining accidents have killed tens of thousand.  Mining companies that do not maintain there slag heaps have caused numerous floods killing thousands and wiping out towns.  Then there's black lung disease and heath issues from the particulate in diesel fumes.  Estimated 3 million deaths per year.  There are many accidents which claimed the life of over 1,000 people.

Solar and Wind kills  Around 75 - 85 deaths per year.  Solar kills more people every year than all nuclear accidents over the past 60 years.  Most of the deaths are people fall off of roofs.  Wind kills 10 to 20 people per year.  They either fall off the turbine or clothing gets tangled in the spinning blades.

Hydro kills 2 to 5 people per year.

Nuclear - All of the nuclear power accidents combined over the last 60 years have killed just under 75 people.  The long term heath risk from the Chernobyl accident is 3,000 to 5,000 unexpected cancers.  Compare that to coal and it's trivial.

Fossil liquid mining and processing - Can't find any numbers but suspect it's around 50 per year.

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#### ahbushnell

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3714 on: March 09, 2019, 02:24:55 pm »

A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=20kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*20kWh=4600kWh just for one person to go to work.

No wonder you guys don't get it.  You don't understand basic math.  Perhaps you can find a 4th grader and have them help you with your multiplication.
Sorry you are right. Well spotted. In my defense: It was late. With the right numbers it looks at lot more doable:

A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=2kWh per day. With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*2kWh=460kWh just for one person to go to work. It still is a big chunk of the electricity usage of one person and as Goerge80 mentioned this number is on the low side.

My annual usage is 2MW, about 4 times that, my annul self generation is estimated at 5.3MW, since the beginning of the year I have already generated 600KW. As we already know ICE vehicles will use more power per mile/Km. If cost was not an object i could be self sufficient. My 13 mile round trip to work each day would use 5.2KWh, anually (assuming i drive the same every day I don't go to work too) I would use sub 2MWh.

Do you mean 2 MW-hr?

#### george80

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3715 on: March 09, 2019, 02:37:28 pm »
A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=2kWh per day.

I took the figures at face value, should have paid more attention.  None the less, the 200 figure at the risk, no certainty, of being labeled a denier or what ever, is unrealistically low.  I looked on a bunch of sites and while the smallest cars can get this, the reports I read for things bigger than a sardine car all said in real world driving their usage was a fair bit higher over all depending on the vehicle.  200 Wh is less than double the power in my electric Drill battery. The battery in my camera flash is 120 Wh. No one is going to tell me there is enough power in 200wh to propel a ton and a half of mid size EV 1KM down the road unless it's all down hill.

Another thing I didn't consider  with these figures is the use of a heater, AC, stereo, wipers and lights at night.  They would have to add significantly in real world conditions as the reports I mentioned outlined.  AC seems to give a big hit as do heaters which would be expected.

Quote
With 46 work weeks in a year that adds up to 46*5*2kWh=460kWh just for one person to go to work. It still is a big chunk of the electricity usage of one person and as Goerge80 mentioned this number is on the low side.

Yes but I concede that is still a lot less than I figured although I didn't pick up on it because that was the number I came up with before in another discussion but I can't remember the calc now of the distances and consumption. Pretty sure it was for a tesla though.
The main error I see is that realisticaly you might be doing closer to 4 Kwh for real world year round driving and have 2 cars in the house.  At that figure the number is higher but  not 3 times average household use.

You would be looking at 50% added consumption which is significant but not crushing -if- you only travel and use that much power per day.  Yeah, I do think it is well on the low side for here but that's the numbers we went with and the correct assumption for them.

#### nctnico

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3716 on: March 09, 2019, 03:13:15 pm »
The numbers are conservative but what needs to be factored in is when the EVs will charge. Most of them when people get home and if there is an off-peak tariff when that tariff starts. BTW I would assume the off-peak tariff will cease to exist if the demand during that time is getting huge. Either way the load from the EVs is likely to be concentrated over a short period of the day so the grid will need upgrades to deal with it.
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#### Simon

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3717 on: March 09, 2019, 03:55:48 pm »
A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=2kWh per day.

I took the figures at face value, should have paid more attention.  None the less, the 200 figure at the risk, no certainty, of being labeled a denier or what ever, is unrealistically low.  I looked on a bunch of sites and while the smallest cars can get this, the reports I read for things bigger than a sardine car all said in real world driving their usage was a fair bit higher over all depending on the vehicle.  200 Wh is less than double the power in my electric Drill battery. The battery in my camera flash is 120 Wh. No one is going to tell me there is enough power in 200wh to propel a ton and a half of mid size EV 1KM down the road unless it's all down hill.

So i use the same figures as those arguing against and now I'm wrong. You really can't win can you? I am comparing to a small car yes, like the one i own, a "cheap" runaround. I don't care how much power your drill battery has the comparison is irrelevant. How long does the drill last? more than a minute or two and does it do regenerative breaking?
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#### Simon

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3718 on: March 09, 2019, 03:56:37 pm »
when an EV goes down hill it does not use 200Wh/m, more like -200Wh/m that is what you fail to grasp. the power used is that used to get the vehicle to speed and to overcome frictions, breaking/slowing down is done by recovering the kinetic energy back into the battery. This is the bit i missed when I originally opposed EV's
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#### nctnico

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3719 on: March 09, 2019, 04:03:52 pm »
A quick sum: if you drive 20km to work every day in a small EV which needs 200Wh/km. That means 40*0.2=2kWh per day.
I took the figures at face value, should have paid more attention.  None the less, the 200 figure at the risk, no certainty, of being labeled a denier or what ever, is unrealistically low.  I looked on a bunch of sites and while the smallest cars can get this, the reports I read for things bigger than a sardine car all said in real world driving their usage was a fair bit higher over all depending on the vehicle.  200 Wh is less than double the power in my electric Drill battery. The battery in my camera flash is 120 Wh. No one is going to tell me there is enough power in 200wh to propel a ton and a half of mid size EV 1KM down the road unless it's all down hill.
You can do a crude estimation. An efficient ICE needs about 50ml of gas/petrol to drive one km (20km/litre). That 50ml has 2.2MJ of energy. Say 40% of that energy gets converted you end up with needing 880kJ. 200Wh is 720kJ (=200*3600). All in all these numbers seem to be in the same order of magnitude.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

#### Simon

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3720 on: March 09, 2019, 04:13:45 pm »
my car does 9.5m/L that is 15Km/L, that is a little fiesta. why do you throw the 40% efficiency in, don't you want to count the fuel you throw away as part of the input, with 36MJ/L that is 10KWh/L that is 666Wh/Km, you were the one that says that electric does 200Wh/Km, your mate was doubting the 200Wh/Km and 666*0.4 = 266Wh/m but that 40% is err, very optimistic..... my car does not do that because every day I drive 6.5 (10.5) miles (Km) and in winter just as i approach the end of the journey my engine has warmed up and might be becoming efficient. i have been down at 6.6m/L in winter. I forget to mention that I leave home 1 hour before i start work to miss the traffic so don't side around with an idling engine.
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#### Simon

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3721 on: March 09, 2019, 04:15:55 pm »
And my journey to work is up a hill and then down again so i use all that fuel to climb up and then have to burn off the kinetic energy going down.....
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#### george80

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3722 on: March 09, 2019, 04:16:24 pm »

Nuclear - All of the nuclear power accidents combined over the last 60 years have killed just under 75 people.

I'm sorry but if you believe that you are an absolute fool and a pathetic human being.

You also insult and disparage the memory of the THOUSANDS whom have lost their lives in nuclear accidents by repeating such unforgivable lies.

Google the Chernobyl  accident clean up and the liquidators and see how many of the 3828 died horrific death's soon after going up on that roof to throw the graphite and fuel rods back into the reactor void before it was sealed up. They were but a small fraction of the people that have as a direct result died since and tens of thousands more that have become sick, ill and painfully incapacitated from it.

It's one thing for us to sit here in our comfy chairs on our fat arses filling in the too much time some of us clearly have over shit that does not matter and is out of our control,  but to pretend the loss, suffering and deaths of so many didn't actually happen just to try and win an argument, Crosses a line that I won't let go uncrossed without calling those who knowingly cross it pieces of garbage.

The lie of what happened at Chernobyl and is still happening and Fukushima and other places that have had accidents and kept covered up is exactly why all Nukes should be shut down soon as possible before there is another accident that wipes out half the planet like Chernobyl and Fukushima both came so close to doing.

Saying only 75 people have died as a result of nuke accidents is the most disgusting thing I have seen written in any online argument in as long as I can remember.  May not be your figure but you aren't that moronically stupid to believe it,  so to even repeat it just to win points in an online pissing contest is just stooping to a new level of low which is offensive as it is repulsive.

#### Simon

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3723 on: March 09, 2019, 04:25:43 pm »
I thought the numbers a bit low but calm down.

Nuclear is not a good idea, our current new station is being built by a conglomerate of private companies including the chinese and why the British need a french company to build them a nuclear power station using a Chinese contractor baffles and scars me. These companies are in it for one reason only - money. And once built, if they do not build more of something this too will over run on it's intended life and become a danger.
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#### george80

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##### Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3724 on: March 09, 2019, 04:34:21 pm »

So i use the same figures as those arguing against and now I'm wrong. You really can't win can you? I am comparing to a small car yes, like the one i own, a "cheap" runaround. I don't care how much power your drill battery has the comparison is irrelevant. How long does the drill last? more than a minute or two and does it do regenerative breaking?

Maybe you should think about going and getting a second job so you can afford a cheap POS EV that you drool over so much instead of spending so much time here trying to tell us all how great they are when you can't even afford  the few grand one would cost.
I'm guessing by the tone of your posts you are not in a professional  or esteemed occupation so a 2nd job would no doubt return a lot of benefits for you and your family.

If you are so hell bent on saving the world and Ev's WTF aren't you at least driving a Hybrid?  You drive a fiesta, what's the other car in the household?

Beggars belief that someone could go out and spend money on a Home battery that they will never see a return on no matter how badly they kid themselves, then sit round arguing how cheap an ev is to run when they don't even have the means to buy a cheap used one!!

Greenwashing has a LOT to answer for but is sure attracts some interesting disciples into their cult.

Smf