Author Topic: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?  (Read 162217 times)

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Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3775 on: March 10, 2019, 09:29:23 am »
And she speaks alot about the less wasteful way of life that america does not have. Because america is all about big consumption and big waste, - make america great again.
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3776 on: March 10, 2019, 10:15:02 am »
It's not about how much practice you get and if you .pass first time. I think most issues are culture and personality related. I hate driving in italy. I recently went back there on holiday and friends were surprised at some of what they saw as they were from the UK and i was like, yea? I did warn you they drive like this. My Italian friend that is a nervous driver did not even want to drive.
Fair point. I must say that In those practice hours you do get driving ethics, the correct way how to drive. Most important you get to get a feel about traffic.
Even in my country if I would drive 100% within the law at max allowed speed at the semi highways I would be overtaken by trucks that are not even allowed so fast. So yeah there is some fuzzy logic that needs to be mixed into the 100% correct driving in order to drive with the crowd.

Italy I had no problems after the first day. It gets used to egocentric drivers that brake for you at the very last second, perhaps because the foreign number plate. No big issues though.
Paris city centre, Naples centre, good luck keeping your car scratch free  :)
 

Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3777 on: March 10, 2019, 10:25:29 am »
the problem with italy is that every maneuver is done bumper to bumper with no margin for error because they are arrogant cocks that take pleasure in thoir self created near misses.

All I learnt in driving lessons was to manipulate a car to a fashion. I learnt to drive after the test. It's common sense really, be safe and respectful. As pointed out a car is 1-+2 tonnes of metal that if not controlled properly will cause harm and suffering. The UK is getting worse though and i get very fearful of driving without my dash cam.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3778 on: March 10, 2019, 10:33:24 am »
the problem with italy is that every maneuver is done bumper to bumper with no margin for error because they are arrogant cocks that take pleasure in thoir self created near misses.

All I learnt in driving lessons was to manipulate a car to a fashion.
Rule number one of driving a car: don't hit any other car. Nobody wants a dent. Keep that in mind and driving in cities like Rome, Paris and Jakarta becomes much easier.
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Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3779 on: March 10, 2019, 12:46:46 pm »
Yes the problem is many don't know that rule. When i went to Italy because i took out fully comprehensive insurance they gave me the car with all the dents because they assumed i would treat it badly being fully comprehensive and therefore would not have to pay for any damage.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 12:48:18 pm by Simon »
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Online coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3780 on: March 10, 2019, 01:15:01 pm »
I would expect more in the way of hybrids and engine optimizations like Atkinson cycle, as well as aerodynamics tweaks. 30 MPG highway is by no means a hard target and many existing cars already do that or better. What gets trickier is raising the requirement over time to prevent stagnation, since there will be some point where it would no longer be economical to continue.

Hybrids are what are being discontinued.  VW stopped making there's a couple of years ago.  And Chevy announced end of production for their car.  It appears the car manufactures are giving up on hybrids.  Didn't Volvo say they are only going to make BEV and NOT hybrids?
I just watched someone's walkaround at the Geneva Motor Show. There are a lot of fresh new plug in hybrids there. BMW is showing pretty much every car in their range in plug in hybrid form. The existence of most of these vehicles has little to do with their practical effectiveness, though. Its all about taxation rules.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3781 on: March 10, 2019, 01:32:14 pm »
This is my problem. Much of the emergence of new technology is governed by government policy and silly tax breaks. The government pushed deisel, now they have changed their minds. Years ago they gave away 50p/KWh feed in tariff for solar systems. So the rich that could afford them went oooh that's a good investment - get my money back in 5 years. Well now that the rich have all had their go and are rolling in it they have reduced the feed in price and muggins may just see the system pay for itself. I put solar up because i wanted to, not because i was going to make a load of money out of it. And now that the "money has run out" because they gave it all away to the rich no one will put up solar panels anymore because end of this month the feed in tariff goes to almost 0. Now the energy companies could pay a fair price if they wanted to but in law they don't have to.....
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3782 on: March 10, 2019, 06:14:24 pm »
As an American I have to say the worst drivers in all of Europe have to be the Brits.  They honk there horns at me yelling you silly bloke.  They put the road signs on the wrong side of the street making thenm nearly impossible to read.  And then they drive on the wrong side of the road.  Only way I can avoid getting into an accident is if I drive on the wrong side of the road. 

A lot of the consumer buying and conservation habits stems from World War II.  Germany had latterly nothing so conserving was the only way to survive.  UK was in better shape but not by much.  Rationing continued until the late 1950s if I am not mistaken.  In the UK the 1960s was celebrated as being able to spend lavishly on things free of rationing and the economy and business had recovered from WWII.

Now compare that to the US.  We only lost about a half million Americans to the war and compared to other countries a large ready to work work force.  We had manufacturing facilities for the war that are now idle, a raw material pipeline ready for consumer products, and Most important the technology improvements which were developed as a result of the war.  And let’s not forget we took the advanced technology the Germans.  The technology the Germans had was so advanced it resulted in the creation of many multi-billion dollar American companies. 

Unlike our counterparts in Europe and Japan WWII which were decimated by the war America and Americans were ready to build, work, buy and have a wonderful life and forget the memories of the battles and horrors of war.  While folks in Europe were searching for food to eat we were living in a country where bigger and more was better.  And this gave America a way to show the world a democracy is better than communion a dictator.  We had the freedom to buy in excess after winning a war to free oppressed people.  We just left out the part that we fought a war so people could have freedom and liberties while not mentioning we were oppressing Americans who were not of European ancestory.  (Blacks and Native Americans.)

Just as Germany had lured the top scientists of the world to come to Germany in the late 1800s, it was America’s turn.  This was our chance to show our highly refined European neighbors we could be as cultural as they were. 

All of this went will until 1957 when the Soviets launched Sputnik.  Followed by fist animal in space.  First man in space, first probe to back side of the moon, and fist probe to Venus. 

That generation is dying off and we are now living in a global economy.  Young folk like that women in the video are releasing what our European neighbors knew for a long time bigger and waste is not better.  Just look at the amount of money and labor it takes to keep a castle or British manor house in good shape. 

 

Online coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3783 on: March 10, 2019, 06:25:28 pm »
As an American I have to say the worst drivers in all of Europe have to be the Brits.  They honk there horns at me yelling you silly bloke.
A typical 10 year old car in the UK will have had its horn honked 8 times - once in every annual MoT test, that is required by law after a car passes its third year.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3784 on: March 10, 2019, 06:40:11 pm »
As an American I have to say the worst drivers in all of Europe have to be the Brits.  They honk there horns at me yelling you silly bloke.
A typical 10 year old car in the UK will have had its horn honked 8 times - once in every annual MoT test, that is required by law after a car passes its third year.

They exceed there yearly quoted when I visit.

I will say the Brits are very polite and quit civil when as they drive chaotically.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3785 on: March 10, 2019, 06:53:27 pm »
Driving here is not what it used to be, lots of drivers are ok but the usual now correct stereotype here is that all BMW and Audi drivers are selfish assholes.
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3786 on: March 10, 2019, 09:10:25 pm »
Ahhhh Just like in America.  But add to the list Mercedes, young boys with VWs or rice rockets with no or modified mufflers.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 03:24:35 am by DougSpindler »
 

Offline MadScientist

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3787 on: March 14, 2019, 10:51:06 pm »
To me it seems every car manufacturer has a different idea on what the future of cars is. Therefore it is no surprise they go in different directions, usually based on their strong and weak points.

Any examination of current car makers pronouncements will lead you to the conclusion they see the future as all electric , even if some of them are reluctant to go there
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Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3788 on: March 14, 2019, 11:04:37 pm »
You know that is a contradiction in itself. Sure there is a market for electric cars but it isn't infinite hence the reluctance. The Dutch government just released calculations on which future government decissions to reduce CO2 emissions are going to be based. Two important conclusions about electric cars: the necessary production volumes cannot be achieved due to material shortages and people can't pay for electric cars. Ergo: the majority of the cars sold in the Netherlands will not be electric for at least the next decade. The same will apply for every European country so rest assured that the majority of the cars being produced for sale in Europe will be ICEs. So any significant reduction in CO2 emission from cars will not be from using electric cars but have to be achieved through optimising ICEs and switching to renewable fuels.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 12:26:42 am by nctnico »
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3789 on: March 15, 2019, 01:53:25 am »
You know that is a contradiction in itself. Sure there is a market for electric cars but it isn't infinite hence the reluctance. The Dutch government just released calculations on which future government decissions to reduce CO2 emissions are going to be based. Two important conclusions about electric cars: the necessary production volumes cannot be achieved due to material shortages and people can't pay for electric cars. Ergo: the majority of the cars sold in the Netherlands will not be electric for at least the next decade. The same will apply for every European country so rest assured that the majority of the cars being produced for sale in Europe will be ICEs. So any significant reduction in CO2 emission from cars will not be from using electric cars but have to be achieved through optimising ICEs and switching to renewable fuels.

In many of your posts you have misunderstood what governments and companies are doing.  Your references are marketing hype which has been proven to be wrong.  Is this time any different?  You don't believe in using science and critical thinking skills, so not sure why what you say should be trusted. 
 

Offline george80

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3790 on: March 15, 2019, 10:37:49 am »
Ergo: the majority of the cars sold in the Netherlands will not be electric for at least the next decade.

Only thing I don't trust with that statement is I think it's overly optomistic.
Predictions I have seen say the majority of vehicles won't be electric for 20 years at least.
 

Online GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3791 on: March 15, 2019, 11:04:59 am »
https://youtu.be/lZWIXwSY_Yk

MotoE: Fire destroys entire fleet of electric bikes - CNN
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=jerez+electric+bikes+fire&t=hp&ia=web

LOL EVs are safer LOL
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 12:26:16 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
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Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3792 on: March 15, 2019, 11:06:25 am »
You know that is a contradiction in itself. Sure there is a market for electric cars but it isn't infinite hence the reluctance. The Dutch government just released calculations on which future government decissions to reduce CO2 emissions are going to be based. Two important conclusions about electric cars: the necessary production volumes cannot be achieved due to material shortages and people can't pay for electric cars. Ergo: the majority of the cars sold in the Netherlands will not be electric for at least the next decade. The same will apply for every European country so rest assured that the majority of the cars being produced for sale in Europe will be ICEs. So any significant reduction in CO2 emission from cars will not be from using electric cars but have to be achieved through optimising ICEs and switching to renewable fuels.

Why do you keep banging on about ICE's becoming more efficient like they are new developing technology? they will never be efficient, the clue is in the name. The motive power is a byproduct of combustion. If you want o reduce CO2 emissions you have to add filtering which restricts the engine and reduces efficiency. You live in cloud cookoo land I am afraid.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3793 on: March 15, 2019, 11:12:42 am »
You know that is a contradiction in itself. Sure there is a market for electric cars but it isn't infinite hence the reluctance. The Dutch government just released calculations on which future government decissions to reduce CO2 emissions are going to be based. Two important conclusions about electric cars: the necessary production volumes cannot be achieved due to material shortages and people can't pay for electric cars. Ergo: the majority of the cars sold in the Netherlands will not be electric for at least the next decade. The same will apply for every European country so rest assured that the majority of the cars being produced for sale in Europe will be ICEs. So any significant reduction in CO2 emission from cars will not be from using electric cars but have to be achieved through optimising ICEs and switching to renewable fuels.
Why do you keep banging on about ICE's becoming more efficient like they are new developing technology? they will never be efficient, the clue is in the name. The motive power is a byproduct of combustion. If you want o reduce CO2 emissions you have to add filtering which restricts the engine and reduces efficiency. You live in cloud cookoo land I am afraid.
Looking at efficiency is the wrong way of looking at CO2 reduction. Bio-fuels and synthetic fuels can replace a significant part of the fossil fuels. ICE cars don't need to become radically more efficient for that to work. Also filtering CO2 won't do you any good. Where do you store it? I guess you mean NOx and HCs but these are already dealt with using EGR and catalytic converters for decades.

Besides that: which part of 'material shortage' and 'too expensive' didn't you understand? It all comes down to costs for the owner. Say your government taxes you out of your car. How do you get to your job? Or are you even going to work if that means having less money to spend compared to living of a social security check? That is the reality. The numbers of the Dutch government report clearly indicate that the people with the least income are getting hit the hardest when taxes on CO2 emitting activities are raised.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 11:16:50 am by nctnico »
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Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3794 on: March 15, 2019, 11:16:44 am »
Ergo: the majority of the cars sold in the Netherlands will not be electric for at least the next decade.

Only thing I don't trust with that statement is I think it's overly optomistic.
Predictions I have seen say the majority of vehicles won't be electric for 20 years at least.

It's going to vary by country. You need the infrastructure for starters and that is a long term government plan. In the UK at least we are terrible at infrastructure because every government kicks the can down the road for the next administration or they privatise it at which point the multitude of private providers argue about who should pay and nothing gets done. In the UK we are still arguing about who pays for smart meters. 20 years ago Italy's nationalised electric company just installed them.
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Offline Simon

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3795 on: March 15, 2019, 11:18:17 am »
You know that is a contradiction in itself. Sure there is a market for electric cars but it isn't infinite hence the reluctance. The Dutch government just released calculations on which future government decissions to reduce CO2 emissions are going to be based. Two important conclusions about electric cars: the necessary production volumes cannot be achieved due to material shortages and people can't pay for electric cars. Ergo: the majority of the cars sold in the Netherlands will not be electric for at least the next decade. The same will apply for every European country so rest assured that the majority of the cars being produced for sale in Europe will be ICEs. So any significant reduction in CO2 emission from cars will not be from using electric cars but have to be achieved through optimising ICEs and switching to renewable fuels.
Why do you keep banging on about ICE's becoming more efficient like they are new developing technology? they will never be efficient, the clue is in the name. The motive power is a byproduct of combustion. If you want o reduce CO2 emissions you have to add filtering which restricts the engine and reduces efficiency. You live in cloud cookoo land I am afraid.
Looking at efficiency is the wrong way of looking at CO2 reduction. Bio-fuels and synthetic fuels can replace a significant part of the fossil fuels. ICE cars don't need to become radically more efficient for that to work. Also filtering CO2 won't do you any good. Where do you store it? I guess you mean NOx and HCs but these are already dealt with using EGR and catalytic converters for decades.

Besides that: which part of 'material shortage' and 'too expensive' didn't you understand? It all comes down to costs for the owner. Say your government taxes you out of your car. How do you get to your job? Or are you even going to work if that means having less money to spend compared to living of a social security check? That is the reality. The numbers of the Dutch government report clearly indicate that the people with the least income are getting hit the hardest when taxes on CO2 emitting activities are raised.

ICE's burn fuel, burning fuel makes CO2. How are you planning to spirit it away?
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Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3796 on: March 15, 2019, 11:22:23 am »
Plants turn CO2 into hydrocarbons. Use these to make fuel from and the circle is closed. Bio-fuels are already a very large contributor to renewables. BTW the Dutch government just announced not to make using an ICE vehicle more expensive.
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Offline george80

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3797 on: March 15, 2019, 11:39:40 am »

Why do you keep banging on about ICE's becoming more efficient like they are new developing technology? they will never be efficient, the clue is in the name.

By the same token i'd ask why you endlessly prattle on about efficency.
Efficiency isn't going to sell shit in the show room. It's not about the best or most efficent or the cleanest, it's about what people like.
Make the most efficent car ever built but if people don't like it..... they will still be driving their old ICE's and sending the green/ EV zealots into a conniption.


Quote
If you want o reduce CO2 emissions

Nope, couldn't give a flying damn about it or the whole Globull warming scam and all the C02 bullshit.
The reality is, neither do Big biz and gubbermints other than where they can make a buck out of it.
 C02 reduction is a fantasy and while there will be lots of guilt tripping and lip service paid to it, the reality is it will increase not decrease no matter how much sooking and crying is done over it. 

If we are on the road to damnation, may as well make the most of the ride before we go over the cliff! 

I'm living up to that. Putting in a nice new fire pit in the back yard. Got started on it today and should have it finished in a few weeks.
Don't want to frig around with wood, this one will be oil burning so it can run all night and I never have to stoke it up or anything else.
Got onto a supply of engine oil which I don't like burning in the vehicle or engines but will save the veg oil for that and just burn the WMO in the fire pit.  Should be a nice warm winter outside entertaining and I predict my FF fueled fire will make not one scrap of difference to the air quality.

Probably get a load of the typical whingers on my YT channel sooking about it though. Not to worry, any view and any comment is a good one.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3798 on: March 15, 2019, 02:15:51 pm »
Plants turn CO2 into hydrocarbons.

Is this what you were taught in school?  Or were you smoking pot in your chemistry and biology classes?  Do you live in a country where you only taught bull shit?

Do you even know what a hydrocarbon is?  Were you not taught about the Calvin Cycle in school?  Silly boy, plants use light energy, water and C02 to produce sugar and oxygen and energy.  If it were not for plants producing O2 you would be dead.

Crud man, when will you stop posting FALSE and incorrect information.

Stop with the biofuel misinformation.  Over 100 of your country's scientists say it's a FALSE solution.
Why do you keep believing and posting marketing hype BS and ignore the science? 


Dutch scientists call crop-based biofuels a ‘false solution’

The use of crop-based biofuels is a ‘false solution’ to climate problems, the scientists say, adding that: ‘we urgently implore you to acknowledge that blending food crops into fuel causes severe damage to climate, nature and communities.’ They point out that research carried out for the European Commission shows the mixture leads to increased greenhouse gas emissions and that biodiesel from food crops emits on average 1.8 times as much carbon dioxide as fossil fuels. This increases to three times more in the case of biodiesel made from palm oil.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2017/12/dutch-scientists-call-crop-based-biofuels-a-false-solution/
 
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #3799 on: March 15, 2019, 02:42:55 pm »
Plants turn CO2 into hydrocarbons.

Is this what you were taught in school?  Or were you smoking pot in your chemistry and biology classes?  Do you live in a country where you only taught bull shit?

Do you even know what a hydrocarbon is?  Were you not taught about the Calvin Cycle in school?  Silly boy, plants use light energy, water and C02 to produce sugar and oxygen and energy.  If it were not for plants producing O2 you would be dead.

Crud man, when will you stop posting FALSE and incorrect information.

Stop with the biofuel misinformation.  Over 100 of your country's scientists say it's a FALSE solution.
Why do you keep believing and posting marketing hype BS and ignore the science? 


Dutch scientists call crop-based biofuels a ‘false solution’

The use of crop-based biofuels is a ‘false solution’ to climate problems, the scientists say, adding that: ‘we urgently implore you to acknowledge that blending food crops into fuel causes severe damage to climate, nature and communities.’ They point out that research carried out for the European Commission shows the mixture leads to increased greenhouse gas emissions and that biodiesel from food crops emits on average 1.8 times as much carbon dioxide as fossil fuels. This increases to three times more in the case of biodiesel made from palm oil.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2017/12/dutch-scientists-call-crop-based-biofuels-a-false-solution/
If you would have read and understood my earlier posts then you'd know I fully agree with that when it comes to using palm oil which the article is about. The article isn't about bio-fuels in general. You should have noted that instead of making such a broad statement that it is false.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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