Zappi 7kW EV Charger Installation

[EEVblog]

Installing and testing the 7kW Myenrgi Zappi EV charger with the home solar system and the IONIQ.

[Monkeh]

The 10% minimum is from J1772 - <5% you must disconnect, I think, obviously you want a little wiggle room around that. Car must respond to duty cycle changes within 5s.

[FyKnight]

Yep 10% PWM duty cycle = 6 A current limit, the minimum per spec.
But 5% = use HomePlug GreenPHY powerline comms over the control pilot (on top of the PWM) to negotiate charging rate, including potentially DC fast charge.
I think below 2-3% = disconnect.

[Monkeh]

Yep 10% PWM duty cycle = 6 A current limit, the minimum per spec.
But 5% = use HomePlug GreenPHY powerline comms over the control pilot (on top of the PWM) to negotiate charging rate, including potentially DC fast charge.
I think below 2-3% = disconnect.

That'll be a newer addition from the IEC standards. The intention is to be able to communicate with smart meters and the like, which I reckon will never actually happen. On the sidelines, well, I'd be curious who has fingers in the Homeplug pie.

[EEVblog]

This is how well it matches the solar production. Very impressive.




And you can see it automatically resume charging when the sun comes back out.

[EEVblog]

Yep 10% PWM duty cycle = 6 A current limit, the minimum per spec.

It must be under that because the IONIQ can still charge at 1.2kW, which at 240V is only 5A. And that seems to be about the cutout.

[Monkeh]

Yep 10% PWM duty cycle = 6 A current limit, the minimum per spec.

It must be under that because the IONIQ can still charge at 1.2kW, which at 240V is only 5A. And that seems to be about the cutout.

That will be the car remaining below the limit. The Zappi will be cutting off charging in Eco+ when grid consumption is too high at that point.

[EEVblog]

Ramping back up after automatically coming back on.
Just did a run entirely in Eco+ mode with shading coming and going and it showed 98% solar used.

[sandalcandal]

Yep 10% PWM duty cycle = 6 A current limit, the minimum per spec.
But 5% = use HomePlug GreenPHY powerline comms over the control pilot (on top of the PWM) to negotiate charging rate, including potentially DC fast charge.
I think below 2-3% = disconnect.

That'll be a newer addition from the IEC standards. The intention is to be able to communicate with smart meters and the like, which I reckon will never actually happen. On the sidelines, well, I'd be curious who has fingers in the Homeplug pie.

[For CCS] the EVSE needs to output 5% PWM on the control pilot to get the EV to enter digital communication mode and go through the digitally communicated protocols to do DC charging. The smart metering and V2G communication is part of the digital communication functionality but the "primary" use is to perform DC fast charging in general.

[Monkeh]

Yep 10% PWM duty cycle = 6 A current limit, the minimum per spec.
But 5% = use HomePlug GreenPHY powerline comms over the control pilot (on top of the PWM) to negotiate charging rate, including potentially DC fast charge.
I think below 2-3% = disconnect.

That'll be a newer addition from the IEC standards. The intention is to be able to communicate with smart meters and the like, which I reckon will never actually happen. On the sidelines, well, I'd be curious who has fingers in the Homeplug pie.

[For CCS] the EVSE needs to output 5% PWM on the control pilot to get the EV to enter digital communication mode and go through the digitally communicated protocols to do DC charging. The smart metering and V2G communication is part of the digital communication functionality but the "primary" use is to perform DC fast charging in general.

J1772 already had support for DC charging using an independent, low cost serial interface for comms, instead of an expensive proprietary PLC standard which won't ever get leveraged.

[Faringdon]

I think if you buy the Hub you can reprogram, or look at, the zappi, on your phone. Ditto the Eddi, the water heater which allows you to heat water from only solar or solar/grid, whatever you choose....and indeed , choose between Zappi and Eddi if you want. I also think if you buy another current clamp off Myenergi,  you can integrate a battery storeage system. The Zappi  can also work with  night time grid electricity rates to charge car cheaply when theres no solar etc

[langwadt]

turning the outlet 90 degrees and mounting it on the side of the post instead of next to it you wouldn't have the big plug sticking out

[EEVblog]

turning the outlet 90 degrees and mounting it on the side of the post instead of next to it you wouldn't have the big plug sticking out

Yeah, didn't even think of that.

[EEVblog]

I think if you buy the Hub you can reprogram, or look at, the zappi, on your phone. Ditto the Eddi, the water heater which allows you to heat water from only solar or solar/grid, whatever you choose....and indeed , choose between Zappi and Eddi if you want. I also think if you buy another current clamp off Myenergi,  you can integrate a battery storeage system. The Zappi  can also work with  night time grid electricity rates to charge car cheaply when theres no solar etc

Yeah, I have desire for yet another phone app, don't see the point for this application. Should never need a firmware update. Works now, should work forever.
I don't have night time rates.
Have ordered the 2nd clamp so I can see production.

[NiHaoMike]

I wonder how that automatic adaptation will handle other devices also trying to adjust their demand to match production. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some combo that causes the devices to oscillate. There really needs to be a standard for a centralized power management controller based on open source software and hardware, it should be simple enough to do based on an ESP32 broadcasting UDP packets on the home network.

[EEVblog]

Possible bug:



UPDATE: Came home and checked the CT, no problem. Discovered it now worked fine. It might have been that I jiggled the CT, but I doubt it those things are robust. And it wasn't an intermittent connection as that would show up as an X I think. Then I found out that Mrs EEVblog had switched off the mains to stop the charging to take the car out in a hurry, she didn't know about the Stop mode. It now works fine displaying  the import values coming from the grid. Nighttime so I can't test further. I'm still thinking bug.

[Faringdon]

Hi, yes i am seeing it now though. When you have a Zappi, you can actually use it with a Harvi...no need for 35m twisted pair cable. You can  read all your currents (Solar and/or  Grid) into the Harvi.   the Harvi is pretty cheap, and you wont need that long cable if you buy a Harvi.
https://myenergi.com/product/harvi/

The Harvi can also connect to the Hub  but only if you wish. (The  Harvi  doesnt need "powering" as it draws power from the wires themselves).

So you have your solar current clamp coming  into the Zappi over that twisted pair cable?...coming 35 Metres?
I think you can take the grid and solar current clamps to the Harvi, and do it like that.

Are you sure yours isn't  set up to be using the little coil antenna on the Zappi?....and without the antenna being  attached on yours(?), then its not receiving well?..possibly?
Have you tried it using the little antenna instead of the long twisted pair cable?

I have a mate who has a mate who works at Myenergi. They have multiple  Zappi's  installed in their car park...none of them go wrong.
Most of the staff have been given Zappis to use at home...they don't go wrong  ,and they do check over them thoroughly.
Isn't that an old version Zappi you installed there?
They've brought PCB assembly in house now and its much finer tuned.
Have you contacted them to get the latest software download? (its free  to do so).
I dont think any company  has zero failure rate in the early stages. Myenergi will immediately replace any product. They are superb about that.
Ask them for another one...i gaurantee you'll receive it in no time and it will work.

The one thing i can say is that these chargepoints are all the rage in UK now......there's a budding chargepoint company coming out on every streetcorner, jumping on the bandwagon....though it was Myenergi's idea in the first place.

Myenergi also have a forum so you can report stuff there too. Myenergi, i have heard, have a large and very highly competent hardware/software engineering team...i am sure they'd make light work of solving the situation in no time.

[EEVblog]

Hi, yes i am seeing it now though. When you have a Zappi, you can actually use it with a Harvi...no need for 35m twisted pair cable. You can  read all your currents (Solar and/or  Grid) into the Harvi.   the Harvi is pretty cheap, and you wont need that long cable if you buy a Harvi.
https://myenergi.com/product/harvi/

I am well aware of that, but there was a question over whether it would do the range though metal and several walls.
The cable is guaranteed bullet proof, the length does not really matter, and it's already proven to be spot-on numerically, so noise caused by the long run is negligable.

Are you sure yours isn't  set up to be using the little coil antenna on the Zappi?....and without the antenna being  attached on yours(?), then its not receiving well?..possibly?
Have you tried it using the little antenna instead of the long twisted pair cable?

I have nothing wireless

I have a mate who has a mate who works at Myenergi. They have multiple  Zappi's  installed in their car park...none of them go wrong.

Well I had an owner on twitter with two units respond:

"Yep, got 2 zappis at home for approx 2 years now, and continue to have bugs like these. Tech support is great if you have issues, but yeah new bugs keep on being introduced on each and every sw update. They sent me at least 3 replacement units actually, so yeah naa."

And another user also confirmed they have encountered the exact same bug.

Isn't that an old version Zappi you installed there?

No it's the v2.
Might not be the latest firmware.

Have you contacted them to get the latest software download? (its free  to do so).

How do you do that without the hub?

Sorry but it makes you wonder,  is there somebody, (possibly a Zappi competitor), doing something with the Zappi, then sending it to yourself to look at, without telling you.

That's just insane. I purchased it from the major Australian dealer.

[EEVblog]

5 second sampling live data, very impressive tracking.

[Faringdon]

OK thanks its interesting.
Sorry Yes you do need the Hub to do a software update, but its free when you do it.
People who have the Hub can get printouts over time of their performace, and the particular operation which you showed hasnt been shown by any person for significant periods.
At least not on the latest software, and im not aware before that.
The region_in_question that you show is a pretty short period....if it was shown to go on longer then would make me look my head up.
The point is that over the course of a year, how much extra electricity would have been "spent" like this?.......and i bet its very very small.

So all i think from looking at the video, is that there is a temporary "thing" going on there, but over the course of a year, maybe a few extra pennies of electricity would have been drawn
from the grid when it should have been coming only from solar. In your video , It seems a shame that  the car was removed when it was...it would have been interesting to see if that operation continued....i doubt that it would have. I am  pretty sure they have a watchdog which clears these kind of things, and lets not forget that all items are susceptible to noise interference at times....so unless prooven otherwise, i reckon the watchdog would have cleared that situation, and over the course of a year, just a  few extra pennies of electricity would have gone into your car from the grid.
It would also be interesting if you got a new unit with the latest software and it happened again, but i doubt it would.
The chargepoint market in UK at the moment is festooned with chargepoint startups, and if there were significant problems with Zappi, you can bet youtube would  be stuffed full of people demo'ing any significant  fault that they found...but  that isnt the case.

I am only being honest in saying....Myenergi have sold many thousands of Zappis, and have many thousands of satisfied customers. And many are the sort of curious, or even "fussy" customers who are hovering over their power meters  throughout the day, and looking for anything unusual..and even these types of people are well happy with Zappi.
The entire “renewable energy optimisation” space (ie what Zappi/Eddi/Harvi/Hub/App do) is pretty well originated by Myenergi...and their founders were in this game even long  before they created Myenergi.
And as discussed, Myenergi have brought PCB assembly in house now, and its much finer tuned now.

Also, i thank you for telling that it is quite an old software version that you have there. You also kindly tell that  the unit was not provided from Myenergi Australia. Also that your distributor did not put the latest software on for you at the time of sale. (its a little concerning that the distributor  hasnt got a Hub in so they can quickly shovel the latest code version in before shipping the product off. (it doesnt take long to up-code it, and it is not hard to do)  I'm not certain, but i think the Zappi can actually be programmed to go into "Max charge" for the first hour or so of ECO mode, and this when its just recently come out of stop mode.....this is because say in non-sunny UK eg, if you just use ECO mode alone and you suddenly need the car......it might not have enough charge....so if stop mode is followed pretty soon by ECO mode, then it can be programmed to actually go on Max charge for a while so as to get some decent charge level into the car battery before settling back into ECO mode proper.......i'm not totally certain, but i  have an inkling that Zappi can be programmed to do that...(well i'm pretty certain that it could be programmed to do that) and i wonder if thats whats going on here, but i dont know.

(i'm taking "ECO" mode as that mode that changes only from excess solar....i couldnt be sure thats what "ECO" mode really is)

The Myenergi Eddi is  good for many situations....including eg, if  the family are all out in the daytime, and the EV's are'nt there either, then your house would be using very little electricity during daytime, and so your solar would simply be exporting. But you can then set the Eddi to divert that solar export into your boiler, so you can heat your water up with that otherwise "wasted" solar energy. You couldnt just do this with say just  a cheap timer, as in UK, sometimes its not very sunny at all, so a cheap  timer would be heating your boiler from the grid during  those non-sunny days....and you wouldnt want that....in that situation, you would rather wait till cheap night rate electricity  started and then heat your boiler water...and the Eddi will sort all this out for you.

That's just insane. I purchased it from the major Australian dealer.

OK sorry about that, i really do enjoy your teardowns and stuff,  and am grateful for them, and hope to see many many more....must admit i dont agree about the Zappi, which i think is a great product, but no probs about that.

[EEVblog]

The chargepoint market in UK at the moment is festooned with chargepoint startups, and if there were significant problems with Zappi, you can bet youtube would  be stuffed full of people demo'ing any significant  fault that they found...but  that isnt the case.

Someone has said they have encourntered this exact same problem.
I looked at the Myenergi forum and it's full of software bugs reports, fixes and updates. They clearly have a long track record of software issues.
The known issues pages is extensive:
https://myenergi.info/known-issues-zappi-v2-f47/

[EEVblog]

FYI my firmware is 3.103
That's 4 releases behind the current version.
I can't see any mention of my issue in those release notes.
I should have bought it direct from Myenergi Australia, I just noticed they sell direct. The dealer obviously had old stock and does not update firmware before shipping.
Now it'll cost me $150 to get the hub in order to update the firmware if needed.

[EEVblog]

[ahbushnell]

Are there heatsink fins on the back of the charger?
Thanks
Andy

[EEVblog]

Are there heatsink fins on the back of the charger?

Nope. It doesn't do much internally, just switches the power through some relays. But traces and connectors heat up.

[EEVblog]

Hub now installed.
https://twitter.com/posnoski/status/1465572683131674624

I really don't get the hub at all, why use it?
Sure it now allows you to look at your charge rate and solar production on your phone. But anyone who buys a Zappi already has solar, and almost certainly an energy monitoring system along with it (I have 3 systems!, Zappi makes it 4). So, 

And tracking your charge on your phone is kinda pointless, why would you bother?

I see zero benefit in keeping it installed. Might as well just put it in a draw and only use again if I need a firmware update. They should have added Ethenet and/or Wifi directly into the Zappi.

[Ed.Kloonk]

If you're worried about the 6 mil copper, what's the power factor like on that thing?

I'd be sticking a current probe on the red one and having a look at the waveform: slow charge, fast charge, charging from the grid vs the inverter. We can work out how hot the wire will get once we know the extent of amperage due to a wonky waveform not just rely on the wattage values.

[Faringdon]

There is some of the reasoning behind the Hub here..
https://myenergi.com/product/hub/

[Red Squirrel]

It's really great to learn that this is something that is possible, to control the charge rate from the charger itself, opens lot of doors for renewable energy use like in this case with the solar.  I plan to build an off grid homestead and was kind of wondering if it's possible to control how much power the car draws, and the fact that it's a simple PWM signal makes it very simple if I wanted to design my own charger even.  I suppose this works with level 1 charging to with 120v right?  Can you get it down to like say, 100w if you really wanted to, or is there a hard minimum?  Maybe not with that particular charger, but like with the standard in general?

I don't have an EV yet myself but that will probably be my next major purchase.  I just need to pay off my land first...  and then save up.  Hopefully the prices come down in the next couple years.  I really want a truck, but I will settle for a SUV if it can tow a small trailer. 

[uer166]

If you're worried about the 6 mil copper, what's the power factor like on that thing?

I'd be sticking a current probe on the red one and having a look at the waveform: slow charge, fast charge, charging from the grid vs the inverter. We can work out how hot the wire will get once we know the extent of amperage due to a wonky waveform not just rely on the wattage values.

Pretty close to 1, all on board chargers in vehicles have pretty good PFC with hard limits on harmonic content, so it wouldn't be a problem. Isn't daves' inverter grid tied? I.e. "charging from inverter" doesn't make any sense in context, it's always "charging from grid"..

[f4eru]

except the Zoé, most EV chargers have near 1 power factor.

[uer166]

except the Zoé, most EV chargers have near 1 power factor.

Ah, the one car that fucked up the French standards for all other international EVSE manufacturers, what an embarrassment.

[f4eru]

Why ?
The french standards are fucked up, but not because of the zoe I think

[uer166]

Why ?
The french standards are fucked up, but not because of the zoe I think

Might have been an unfounded assumption on my part, based on how many issues Zoe causes with fully standards-compliant EVSEs, whether they are DC or AC. Don't get me started on EV-Ready requirements (like shuttered sockets etc), whoever wrote those is either a knucklehead, or lives in a total vacuum.

[EEVblog]

I.e. "charging from inverter" doesn't make any sense in context, it's always "charging from grid"..

Correct, I have 15 inverters that connect to the grid. The Zappi connects to the grid as well. The Zappi just know ho much the solar invereters output and only pulls that amount from the "grid", whcih just happens to match the invereter output into the grid.

[EEVblog]

There is some of the reasoning behind the Hub here..
https://myenergi.com/product/hub/

Mrs EEVblog is waiting for our gas hot water system to die so it can be placed with electric. In that case there may be some benefit to Eddi hot water controller, in not having an electric system coming on over night (after we have had our showers at night), and only coming on during the day with solar. But that can mostly be done with a simple dumb timer controller as well.