16 pin dip Ic information.

[jerb]

I have this IC that isn't working and i can't find any information on anything about it or where i could find a replacement. Just seeing if anyone can help me out I'm at my wits end . thanks, Also it's used in a camera if that helps any.

[Andy Watson]

What! What camera uses DIP ICs?

It might help if you could narrow-down its area of operation - is it digital, or is it in the signal path?

Could it be a NJM2795 ?
http://www.njr.com/semicon/PDF/NJM2795_E.pdf
scratch that - not enough pins!

[Chris56000]

Hi!

Is it a Vidicon tube camera?

They were certainly old enough to use DIP ICs - can you post more details or pictures of what the IC came out of?

Chris Williams

[jerb]

Thanks for getting back to me guys, Not sure that it helps much but it came from a nimslo 3D camera, this one in the photos. There's a complete reference repair guide when searching nimslo repair guide.

link here:  http://www.cameramanuals.org/pdf_files/nimslo_guide_to_the_3d_camera.pdf

Edit: As included is a picture of the pcb it comes off of. In reference to pcb 606 of the manual. Sorry about the image issues, it's hard to get a good picture of this.

[amyk]

It's from 1983, if I'm reading the datecode correctly.

[jerb]

That should be correct, The nimslo was released in 1982 and had a short run until about 88 when it completely closed shop and was bought out by nishika.

Edit reply: It operates the entire camera. Shutter speed is controlled based off the photo resistor, It also controls a magnetic coil that controls the release of the shutter mechanism That has a variable resistor tied into it at 26-30k ohms, There's also some sort of led driver inside it that controls 3 separate led's.

[martinator]

You're probably going to have to draw a schematic to make more sense of what it does. Could it be an NE558?

[jerb]

These are the schematics for the page. I did write up a small schematic based off a working chip i have from another camera but only so far as a continuity test from ground to each pin of the ic.

Edit: I've included the poorly drawn Diode continuity test, None of this is engineering standard as i have no background in engineering just self taught. ~~~ squiggles means resistor, = Means two points are connected, cap= capacitor between two points. Basically any values that are pretty close should be connected to each other, so 898, 900, 901 are somehow connected for example.

Also as a side note, those in the 898-901 range are 4.5V input directly from the battery. There's a spring switch that's activated by a half press of the shutter.

[amyk]

According to the parts list in the manual posted it's a "CS3016" but I can't find any reference to that elsewhere on the Internet, so it is likely to be a custom and unfortunately, unobtanium, ASIC.

[SMdude]

Any chance you could post a higher resolution image of the schematic?
It seems to have an IR receiver, so I wonder if this is a micro-controller?
Are you sure that the IC is dead? Can you swap another one in its place just to be really sure?

[martinator]

One of the pins on the schematic does look like it says pgm so maybe it is a micro?

[jerb]

100% dead. It gates out 4.5V to the coil instead of the 1.5-1.7V it should be getting and all other pins show no signal on the diode test. I was afraid it would be some sort of custom ic chip which would really suck, As i need about 100+ such chips for what i'm working on. If i could do a resistance, continuity and load test on a properly working one would that help? I've been looking around at SOIC package chips as i know things moved from dip to Surface mount. Just hoping there's some sort of solution here. Not sure if there's commissions are allowed on this forum but this is definitely something i would be willing to pay to get help with.

Edit: i think the IR receiver you're seeing is the photo resistor. This is how the camera knows how to adjust the aperture of the lens and shutter speed.

[Nusa]

Odds are that IC is unobtainium, other than from other parts cameras. If you can reverse-engineer what the IC (and/or the board as a whole) DOES, it may not be that hard to replace with a microprocessor.

Not sure if there's commissions are allowed on this forum but this is definitely something i would be willing to pay to get help with.

There's a jobs section on this forum if you want to advertise for someone.

[jerb]

I could definitely figure out what everything goes to and does. The only problem with getting the part off another camera is that it's just too expensive to do it that way. And thanks for letting me know about the job sections. I don't want people to just be spending their time for my own benefit. Unfortunately with the micro controllers i'm not too well versed with them and know very little programming. I really appreciate all the help everyone's given so far though it means a lot.

[DC1MC]

I had a look, it's definitely a custom ASIC and if there are no old-new stock somewhere, you won't get them anymore.
I'm also pretty sure that what kills them is the Blitz control via that thyristor or flash-ready input, they could have avoided that shit by using one diode in series with the gate, but hey 20c less it's not that bad coupled with planned obsolescence.  A Little piggy-back board with whatever PIC/STM that has an analogue input and a couple of bipolar tranzistors should do the trick.
At a first glance the functionality it's like that (please correct me where I'm wrong):

S1 is the Power-Switch.
S2 is the Picture-Trigger switch.
LED1 is the weird green dot marker on the film for their weird photo-printers.
LED2 is LowLight condition.
LED3 is  Power-OK/Light-OK.
With VR1 one adjust the shutter pulse vs light intensity.
The MG thing is either the aperture control (proportional voltage to light intensity) or shutter speed control (proportional pulse duration to light intensity).
Most likely the shutter speed is determined by the film sensitivity and the aperture opening is controlled by this chip.

So when the board is powered on via S1, it starts measuring the light and dynamically setting the aperture opening, when S2 is pressed, it pulses the film marker led and depending on the light intensity it triggers the blitz or not, it could be that the second pin going to the blitz shoe it selects in between two lamps on their also weird blitz.

If you have some working camera on a tripod, a good calibrated exponometer (light intensity measuring device), some adjustable light sources, a room to be used as testing studio, a good DMM and eventually a simple scope, I think it takes 2-3 hours of testing to clearly determine how the chip works, 1 week to concept the best and cheapest way to replace the chip and then either do a small PCB piggyback instead of the chip or just put on some breadboard and wires.

See, simple , now where should I send you my PayPal for this analysis  ?

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
 

[DC1MC]

Also, OP why did you post those crappy pictures/screenshots of the schematic, a full user and service manual with calibration procedure can be loaded from here:

http://www.cameramanuals.org/pdf_files/nimslo_guide_to_the_3d_camera.pdf

95.6% of my analysis still holds  , with this manual, there is an 100% chance of fully replacing the asic, either with a small MCU or, just for nostalgia, with analogue parts.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[jerb]

Oh yes, I posted them because another person asked me to lol. Although i had already linked the only repair manual i could find. Sorry it's a bit late here in the states and my brain is a little delirious. I'd like to be able to talk a little more about this on tomorrow. unfortunately i do not have an oscilloscope so i border on being useless in that regard. Anyway when my brain decides to turn back on in the morning i'll go back over the information you posted, and i still do hold true to what i said. I would very much be willing to pay anyone who is able to lead me to a viable replacement solution for this "unobtanium" IC. I just hope Unobtanium breaks against stubbortanium. 

[DC1MC]

Oh yes, I posted them because another person asked me to lol. Although i had already linked the only repair manual i could find. Sorry it's a bit late here in the states and my brain is a little delirious. I'd like to be able to talk a little more about this on tomorrow. unfortunately i do not have an oscilloscope so i border on being useless in that regard. Anyway when my brain decides to turn back on in the morning i'll go back over the information you posted, and i still do hold true to what i said. I would very much be willing to pay anyone who is able to lead me to a viable replacement solution for this "unobtanium" IC. I just hope Unobtanium breaks against stubbortanium.

Heh, it's the same manual, my bad  , anyway if you have some working camera the rest of test equipment can be obtained for not too much effort, the scope isn't mandatory, was just usesd to see if the electro-magnet control is in DC current or some kind of pulse width modulation.
Sleep well, and we'll see what can be done latter.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

   

[jerb]

Okay, So i decided to take a look inside the ic, and seems like it's just a single silicon die that everything goes to. I mangled it a bit but i'll post some pictures shortly, if it would help at all.

[DC1MC]

Okay, So i decided to take a look inside the ic, and seems like it's just a single silicon die that everything goes to. I mangled it a bit but i'll post some pictures shortly, if it would help at all.

This is definitely a bit of a wasted effort, if you really want to devise a replacement for "100+" devices , don't waste your time with cracking open ICs, and find a device with a working one and start measuring as instructed.
Unless Superman is reading theses topics, nobody can get any information from inside an IC  .

 So, come and tell us that you found a working camera and you're ready to do some measuremtns.

  Cheers,
  DC1MC

[jerb]

I do have some with working IC. i'll get on it tonight and get what information i can over with better pictures of the circuit boards, as well as voltage read out, resistance and diode tests.

[DC1MC]

Jerb, seriously, you don't have to do that, there is NO of the shelf replacement for this custom IC.
You need to measure a working camera, while working to see how the electro-magnet there is driven ( in DC current or pulses) and then produce a replacement.

No amount of measuring the resistance, diode or anything else will help you.

If you don't have tools or skills to do it, find somebody in the US to help you, post a message in the Jobs board, many of the people here are passionate and they won't charge you a lot.

If you want to learn for yourself, you need to start paying attention of what we are telling you, and ask about details on how to do it practically and cheaply.

Good luck,
DC1MC

[jerb]

I know i won't find an off the shelf replacement for what i'm doing. I'm just looking for a solution, So if that comes in the form of soldering multiple IC's resistors and mosfets together i can do that. I also want to make it as easy as possible for anyone who's helping me with it. This whole system is a lot trickier and for being a 35 year old IC they sure figured out how to pack a lot of features into something so many years ago. i'll post this and just tell me if i'm heading in the right direction with what i'm doing but in the mean time i'll post over in the jobs section and see if anyone will take up my offer there.