agilent 54845A project ( REOPENED )

[charlyd]

so i think my Hybrid in ch1 looks broken… in the selftest...let see what the Calibration does... and see how the hybrids respond.

         vertical            trigger
Ch1   failed               failed
Ch2   failed               failed
Ch3   failed               failed
Ch4   failed               failed

of course this is like a real MULE is.. 

back to the selftest i got  ch1 bitstuck in hybrid and also some warning from the attentuators. the contact value were really out limited. 4 very long numbers..? really strange..
So status:  ch1 no signal (it was somewhere out of LCD).  and all calls are failling.

yeah and what is the next step...
i decided to look if it is possible to reset the attentuators because the restored image 4.3 doesn t have my contact count ( fingers crossed if the attentuators are also not mule parts..)
But first i take the hybrid from ch4 and put it on socket ch1 so when i do the call again it could go for 6x passed before crashing..

Meanwhile i do ask here for 1 hybrid for sale 1NB7-8348 .. (please PM )   then i can go through the selftest withour errors anymore, i hope.

next step was to reset the contact count and see what happens.
i missed the ATT SET in the extension service menu so i remember when you start the scope  and change the /autostart in the shortcut to /service  you get some extra option and are able to reset the count.

after that i went back to the call menu. to see what happens.

         vertical            trigger

Ch1   failed               PASSED
Ch2   PASSED           PASSED
Ch3   failed               PASSED
Ch4   ------               -------[not installed]

so it is time to figure out what causes the vertical cals to fail…? assuming that 4 ch will also pass the trigger site after being installed.



 

[charlyd]

Hello ok i will post a picture from the hybrid i am looking for.
so if you have 1 hybrid for sale  please PM me.
as soon as i have one then i can go on with the Mule project and see if all my selftests will pass...to start with.

any suggestion about the failing vertical Cal. 

why they are failing on CH1 and CH3 ?

[dzseki]

Previously you mentioned that the relay counters were way over the top. Perhaps those really need some care?

[charlyd]

those were over the top because on the earlier restored image they were way to high.. for a reason. ( maybe because on the init moment of that image my scope was half dead. )

but on the Original disk the count were way under the limits..  but i will check this soon by feeding the output from the attentuators 2 to hybrid 1 with the sma jumper pigtail.

but i doubt that is the problem but i will come back on this one.

[charlyd]

hi ok the Mule project continues….
i got a new Hybrid because my hybrid in channel 1 gave me a triggered line in the bottom of the screen...( not in the middle ) and from what i saw it is a hybrid thing..

meanwhile a i resetted the contact count already of the attentuators (who are installed swapped at this moment ) and place my hybrid 4 to channel 1.
i placed the new received hybrid on ch 4. and now i can do the selftest.

most of this was passed..except:

i got Self Test invoked cal executed.
Error in self test invoked cal - DLL cal.
Error in self test invoked cal - Clk 100Mhz cal.
Error in self test invoked cal - Data Acq cal.
Error in self test invoked cal - Fiso Redundancy cal.
 Test FAILED on channel 1
Fiso data bit error not correctable

let start a Calibration 

        VERTICAL    TRIGGER

CH1   FAILED         PASSED
CH2   PASSED        PASSED
CH3   PASSED        PASSED
CH4   PASSED        PASSED

mmmmm  this looks good.  but ok a CH1 problem.    bit stuck error    ( will copy the exact error later here).
but it looks like it can by dangeres to put my new received hybrid on CH1 and kill it maybe…  no way..!

uuh what can i do....  because all my triggers are passed in the CAL i got all channels a nice colored line in the centre.

NEXT STEP:
let s put back the ( broken )  hybrid with the failed trigger line back on CH1 and put the CH4 hybrid back in its empty place on Ch4. and swap both attentuators back to its Original place…

RESULT:
calibration…

        VERTICAL    TRIGGER

CH1   FAILED         FAILED
CH2   FAILED         FAILED
CH3   FAILED         FAILED
CH4   FAILED         FAILED

pfffffffff………

tonight i rollback to the ch2,ch3,ch4 working situation. and move one by one. see what happens when...


 

[charlyd]

ok..... the story continues……

after rollback the hybrids and went back to the working config.  it was again in the ch1 with result…. vertical fail… trigger pass.  (like in the post above)

lets start from here:

selftest fails with both hybrids placed on ch 1 same error.....i know from one hybrid it is really failing but the last one were the trigger shows passed i would say the hybrid was the ch 4 hybrid..

i managed to test the hybrid on a different channel and 2 times passed…   So the mule still has a channel one issue.

this looks like i still having an error in the channel 1 circuit.

i will come back on this one after the deep dive into channel 1.

when i calibrate in the end when you look at details your are pointed to the error section. if you turn it arround if all channels fail on both vertical en trigger. you will see nearly all section from the repair diagram shown in details.

that will point you to the solution one way or another...

i also did a deeper dive into the hidden options of the scope and went in with the commandlines :

just create 2 batch files with a command from below in the c:\scope\bin directory

For scopes that use the hp5484X.exe executable:
hp5484X.exe scope /scope /hpib /service (for service mode)  i did not see anything yet apart from ATT SET in the selftest menu for resetting the contacts.
hp5484X.exe scope /scope /hpib /internal (for some very interesting stuff) for this option it gives you an extra option at the bottom of the CALIBRATION /SELFTEST dropdown menu. where you can choose different options.


ok what can this error all mean: in the selftest with service extension checked.
--------------------------------------------
Self Test invoked executed
Error in self test invoked cal - DLL cal.
Error in self test invoked cal - Clk 100Mhz cal.
Error in self test invoked cal - Data Acq cal.
Error in self test invoked cal - Fiso Redundancy cal.
FISO test failed on channel 1
FISO data bit error not correctable.
Test FISO FAILED.
---------------------------------------------

It is all pointing to a sort of cal.  or pre-cal state which is not in place, knowing the hybrid used on CH1 is working 100% . The attentuators swapped also doesn t make any difference..
-> it has to be with CH1.

clicking on details after calibration it only says: "FISO REDUND"  for the rest nothing.

does anybody know what i could diagnose extra by connecting the scope to my laptop with GPIB/HPIB.

new update i think the last time the FISO was not really seated ok. because channel 1 is working after i swapped ch4 <-> ch1 ch4 has the failed error. really strange. because i saw it working…..
but one way or an other the FISO needs to be replaced it think. so i am looking for a second FISO.. for this real mule.

just a tip before putting the connection pipe between the attentuators and the FISO. be aware to fit and tighten the FISO first completely with out the cooler then put the connection in between en tighten the screws and at last place the cooler on the FISO. that way the contact are 100% ok to the FISO and not a bit lifted.





 

[charlyd]

to finish the Scope i need

[1] 3x spacers/standoffs set like in the picture below. 
containing:
3 PROTECTOR CAP .234 ID .3125 DEPTH
3 BOLT M3X.05MM 35 MM LG PANHD
3 SPACER M3X25 MM


[2] and still looking for a FISO as well.

EDIT: Got these 3 parts already...

[charlyd]

to finish the project i ordered the last FISO this weekend i will close the complete topic with a picture of the result as soon as it arrives and the calibration is done.

[analogRF]

today i went into the faults again  i have 3 failed situations in my tests so i decided to drill down into there to see if there is a common component.

Hi charlyd

where did you get these attached documents in post #35?

[charlyd]

a good tip for anybody who is struggling arround with the Hybrid & failed calibration. This weekend i received a just bought FISO to finish the job but this FISO was not ok.
It failed both on vertical and trigger, after placement i did a new calibration. This time even the CH2 FiSO advertised as complete failed. So what i mean to say is the channel 1&2  and 3&4 a sort of go together. after the newly bought broken Fiso was taken out,  CH2 was ok again.

So take in mind:  If for CH1&2  / CH3&4 one of the FISO fail it can also take down the companion as a false positive.


Still looking for a working Agilent 1NB7 - 8348

[analogRF]

a good tip for anybody who is struggling arround with the Hybrid & failed calibration. This weekend i received a just bought FISO to finish the job but this FISO was not ok.
It failed both on vertica and on trigger and after placement i did a new calibration. This time even the CH2 FiSO advertised as failed. So what i mean to say is the channel 1&2  and 3&4 a sort of go together. after the newly bought broken Fiso was taken out CH2 was ok again.

So take in mind:  If the FISO from CH1 is failed it can show in calibration that FISO CH2 is also failed this is a false positive.


Still looking for a working Agilent 1NB7 - 8348

Hi charlyd

where did you get these attached documents in post #35?

[charlyd]

Hi analogRF in the scope itself  look for a file named: HP4XS.HLP  and open it in the W98 machine because it is an version help format, for sure not recognized extension in WIN10 or so.

you could try win7 if i remember well.

[rickells]

hi Charlyd,

I was told by TRN(?) that you are an HP 54845a expert:

I have continued Trigger Self-Test Failures( All Trigger self-tests fail for all 4 Ch's) in an otherwise working HP 54845a scope ( VIN 33, latest).
Since I cannot pass the Trigger self-tests, I can Not preform a Cal.  Otherwise, The scope works fine on all 4 CH's !!

See: for the details.
   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/agilent-hp-54845a-1-5-ghz-scope-trigger-self-test-failures/msg2346717/#msg2346717

Wondering if you have any insight ?

thank you,
rikels

[charlyd]

It is time to reopen this post.
after a long time i got the last hybrid. for a reasonable price.
so today i thought lets place this last hybrid in CH1  the one which had a vertical "failed".

so hybrid swap and test again.  and at this point the lights went out.  CH1 passed passed.  But now CH4  has the vertical "failed"  as if the error is moved from CH1 >> CH4.

anybody here who recognizes this behaviour.  next weekend i will investigste further why this happens. 

For my feeling i have 5 100% working hybrids but still an issue in the vertical part. unless i am wrong.

[charlyd]

i did a full self-test after i clear the logs and that was passed on all steps.
then i did a calibration which failed on channel 4 with a detailed message: "muxing 1x mux ofst"

so what could be part of this last step?

still really weird that with the other hybrid in CH1.   CH4. was 100% passed. ?