Author Topic: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red  (Read 1813 times)

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Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2020, 05:10:53 pm »
Do you mean C20 on the 24VDC power supply? It's an 1uF across the output, not critical, put in anything 1-2.2uF.
Original is 25V running at 25V  :palm: so put in a 50V part for less smoke.

Hi Floobydust thanks for the reply. Correct, here is a pic of the blown cap:



Great i'll have a look in my caps box to see if I have one within this range of values, if not I'll order it and hopefully it will be back to normal again!
 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2020, 05:50:31 pm »
Do you mean C20 on the 24VDC power supply? It's an 1uF across the output, not critical, put in anything 1-2.2uF.
Original is 25V running at 25V  :palm: so put in a 50V part for less smoke.

Hi Floobydust thanks for the reply. Correct, here is a pic of the blown cap:

Great i'll have a look in my caps box to see if I have one within this range of values, if not I'll order it and hopefully it will be back to normal again!

I replaced the cap with a 1uf 50v but the problem still occurs. It shows as ~348 degrees celcius at all times no matter what I set it to (but the iron is cold). If I set it to 350 or higher, the iron will start to heat up, but won't stop and glow orange.

The problem must be else where causing this... I checked the MOSFET as per earlier in the thread, and only the pins highlighted in green are shorted to '+' i suppose that is normal ?

 

Offline wraper

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2020, 06:20:31 pm »
Do you mean C20 on the 24VDC power supply? It's an 1uF across the output, not critical, put in anything 1-2.2uF.
Original is 25V running at 25V  :palm: so put in a 50V part for less smoke.
How do you even know it's voltage rating? There are no markings.
I replaced the cap with a 1uf 50v but the problem still occurs. It shows as ~348 degrees celcius at all times no matter what I set it to (but the iron is cold). If I set it to 350 or higher, the iron will start to heat up, but won't stop and glow orange.
IMHO there is something wrong with temperature sensing circuit. Apparently it reads about 350oC regardless of actual temperature. Thus when set above it, iron heats up uncontrollably not being able to reach the set-point, when set below, there is no heating as temperature readout is above the set-point. You need to check the circuit where temperature reading happens. Does it continue to do so even when cartridge is disconnected?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 06:31:38 pm by wraper »
 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2020, 06:26:04 pm »
I replaced the cap with a 1uf 50v but the problem still occurs. It shows as ~348 degrees celcius at all times no matter what I set it to (but the iron is cold). If I set it to 350 or higher, the iron will start to heat up, but won't stop and glow orange.
IMHO there is something wrong with temperature reading. Apparently it reads about 350oC regardless of actual temperature. Thus when set above it, iron heats up uncontrollably, when set below, there is no heating as temperature readout is above set-point.

I see. It must be something on the temperature control board, or maybe the iron itself? I'm not sure but I'd guess the former. I think that MOSFET which the OP had the problem with is OK for me (see prev post) so I'm not really sure where to look next, I'm only a tinkerer so not that experienced. I hoped it would be a quick fix  |O

You need to check the circuit where temperature reading happens. Does it continue to do so even when cartridge is disconnected?

What do you mean by the cartridge?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 06:27:35 pm by wf789 »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2020, 06:29:16 pm »
What do you mean by the cartridge?

 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2020, 06:39:31 pm »
What do you mean by the cartridge?



Ah, yes. I tried 3 different tips, the problem still occured  :palm:

I just tried without. Instead of 350 degrees it says 320 degrees, but when I adjust the temperature, it won't move -- just stays at 320.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 06:43:56 pm by wf789 »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2020, 07:25:07 pm »
Check (depends on your F/W rev) Setup Menu 04. or Settings Menu 05. "Cold End" is not scrambled or reading a silly temperature. Wand plugged in, it should read room temperature if the CJC thermistor bead in the wand is wired properly, regardless if a tip is plugged in.
Unplugged wand: The controller should display ERROR and the LED will only be lit if a shorted MOSFET.
Since the thermocouple input is floating and picking up noise, the controllers freak out and display ERROR or flicker between run/error mode, this is normal.

Otherwise I would suspect the thermocouple op-amp is not working.
You can unplug the wand and connect a 10k resistor to GND from heater connector pin at the top T12+ or pin 5 on the GX12. With that very low mV input, a low temperature should be displayed and the controller will think it's ok to run and turn on the heater (which is all unplugged).
If you still get that silly high temperature reading, check the SGM8551XN op-amp input (pin 3/LED) is around 0V and the output pin 1 is low under say 250mV.
edit: op-amp output is about 5mV/°C so 350°C is about 1.74V to the A/D. Room temp 25°C should be about 125mV

"OLED-V3.0" schematic is basically the same circuit as V2.1S, with a different 6-pin OLED, no pump control mosfets, different reference designators etc.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 02:54:11 am by floobydust »
 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2020, 09:55:52 pm »
Check (depends on your F/W rev) Setup Menu 04. or Settings Menu 05. "Cold End" is not scrambled or reading a silly temperature. Wand plugged in, it should read room temperature if the CJC thermistor bead in the wand is wired properly, regardless if a tip is plugged in.
Unplugged wand: The controller should display ERROR and the LED will only be lit if a shorted MOSFET.
Since the thermocouple input is floating and picking up noise, the controllers freak out and display ERROR or flicker between run/error mode, this is normal.

Otherwise I would suspect the thermocouple op-amp is not working.
You can unplug the wand and connect a 10k resistor to GND from heater connector pin at the top T12+ or pin 5 on the GX12. With that very low mV input, a low temperature should be displayed and the controller will think it's ok to run and turn on the heater (which is all unplugged).
If you still get that silly high temperature reading, check the SGM8551XN op-amp input (pin 3/LED) is around 0V and the output pin 1 is low under say 250mV.

"OLED-V3.0" schematic is basically the same circuit as V2.1S, with a different 6-pin OLED, no pump control mosfets, different reference designators etc.

When the wand is plugged in with no tip, it shows the room temp (24-25 degrees).
When the wand is not plugged in, it does not show "ERROR" but just "325C". The room temp stays at 23 degrees and has a "!" instead of the thermometer symbol next to the degrees.

I will try the rest of what you have said tomorrow. Just to make sure I've got it right (or not), is the heater pin the "+" pin on the 5-pin heater connector?

The pic of the OLED-V3.0 board in my previous posts was just one I took from the main OP's post to highlight the pins that I previously tested with my multimeter to the "+" pin on the heater.

The pic attached below is the board from my solder station. The main board rev is V2.01

Thanks  :)
 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2020, 01:56:58 pm »
Otherwise I would suspect the thermocouple op-amp is not working.
You can unplug the wand and connect a 10k resistor to GND from heater connector pin at the top T12+ or pin 5 on the GX12. With that very low mV input, a low temperature should be displayed and the controller will think it's ok to run and turn on the heater (which is all unplugged).
If you still get that silly high temperature reading, check the SGM8551XN op-amp input (pin 3/LED) is around 0V and the output pin 1 is low under say 250mV.

"OLED-V3.0" schematic is basically the same circuit as V2.1S, with a different 6-pin OLED, no pump control mosfets, different reference designators etc.

I put a 10k resistor between GND and the heater connector pin at the top and the temperature was still high and not changing. (345-350c)
I think the op-amp you are referring to is U3 on my board? I measured it and pin-3 (input) measured 0V but the pin-1 (output) was 1.74V. I assume this op-amp is the problem then? Since you are saying it should be ~250mV.

I looked at your schematic and saw OPA336NA, can I use that as a replacement part? I'm ordering some parts for something else really soon from Mouser so could grab one of those as well.
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/OPA336NA-3K?qs=7nS3%252BbEUL6vwF%252Byt2%2F21Rw%3D%3D

Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 02:15:32 pm by wf789 »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2020, 01:51:12 am »
From those measurements, the thermocouple op-amp U3 is not working properly.
The T12 controller has a few odd requirements for the thermocouple amp.
I'm hesitant to give substitute op-amp numbers because I have not tried them and datasheet shopping can still get it wrong. OPA336NA known to work too. Maybe look at OPA376 if you can't find that.
SGM8551XN has good specs:
rail-rail in and out, 12uV offset, 13pA IB, 0.1msec overload recovery time, 0.84V/usec slew rate and noisy 53nV/sqrt(Hz). It runs off 3.3V with 4k7 to the thermocouple. The op-amp gets saturated while the heater is on, then it has to recover and give the correct TC voltage, which is the trap for phase-reversal as well.
The op-amp input has to float high when the tip is disconnected because somebody saved $0.01 omitting a 1MEG pullup resistor. Or else it will not properly detect a disconnected wand/heater.

I forgot to say, be careful when attaching the 10k to the heater output, if you short it to ground when the mosfet is on, it can damage it.
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2020, 04:57:37 pm »
From those measurements, the thermocouple op-amp U3 is not working properly.
The T12 controller has a few odd requirements for the thermocouple amp.

I appear to have the same PCB here, with same Op-amp on it. This opamp must be replaced, for sure. This Russian guy already has tried...

Information Source:

https://radiokot.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3753771&sid=6d6a79087d7d8bd346c6b744de8b10bc#p3753771

Translated:

Quote
User: Kst26

Tue Dec 03, 2019 01:27:36 p.m.

Yes, in it. I also bought a blue Ve2.12S controller with a 61LJV opamp, the difference between the temperature on the display and on the sting was 50-53 degrees. The difference was almost constant in the temperature range of 150-350 degrees and decreased at a temperature close to 450. Moreover, if you try to calibrate the difference decreases to 30-33 degrees and on a cold sting the controller instead of room temperature starts to show 9-13 degrees (although in room 22) .
The op was replaced by the AD8605ARTZ-REEL7, without calibration, the difference became 3-10 degrees, and with calibration + -2 degrees.
All temperature measurements were made with a thermocouple multimeter.

Unfortunately he does not mention which tip / handle. If it's T12 or JBC. Which I guess then require more digging. There are other discussions on the same Russian thread, which is much longer. More little details like this over there. Unfortunately it's a bit difficult to search / find.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 05:02:54 pm by dreamcat4 »
 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2020, 02:08:17 am »
Sorry I'm a bit late to reply but thanks for your responses.

@dreamcat4, although mine is 2.01 not 2.1S, the problem sounds a bit similar to mine. Hopefully replacing this chip will work.

@floobydust Well... I've ordered some replacement of the SGM8551XN chip. They will arrive in 1-2 weeks hopefully. I'll replace it and return with the result! & yes I did check when I tested what you previously mentioned and there was no shorts to GND :)

Cheers
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 02:16:22 am by wf789 »
 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2020, 06:35:44 pm »
From those measurements, the thermocouple op-amp U3 is not working properly.
The T12 controller has a few odd requirements for the thermocouple amp.
I'm hesitant to give substitute op-amp numbers because I have not tried them and datasheet shopping can still get it wrong. OPA336NA known to work too. Maybe look at OPA376 if you can't find that.
SGM8551XN has good specs:
rail-rail in and out, 12uV offset, 13pA IB, 0.1msec overload recovery time, 0.84V/usec slew rate and noisy 53nV/sqrt(Hz). It runs off 3.3V with 4k7 to the thermocouple. The op-amp gets saturated while the heater is on, then it has to recover and give the correct TC voltage, which is the trap for phase-reversal as well.
The op-amp input has to float high when the tip is disconnected because somebody saved $0.01 omitting a 1MEG pullup resistor. Or else it will not properly detect a disconnected wand/heater.

I forgot to say, be careful when attaching the 10k to the heater output, if you short it to ground when the mosfet is on, it can damage it.

Hey, just want to say that the replacement chip arrived today. I replaced U3 and its now working perfectly!
Thanks for the help. Here is a link for anyone else who may need to replace it if they are experiencing the same problem: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000859866686.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1bb324c3qw1YFN&algo_pvid=2e58b573-f1eb-4526-bd83-cd44cdf76914&algo_expid=2e58b573-f1eb-4526-bd83-cd44cdf76914-0&btsid=0b0a3f8115942332811715809ebd8a&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
I will say that the temperature reading "jitters a lot" i.e. moves around very often but only up and down by 10C, whereas my new one doesn't really do that. But it's not a problem, at least I can use this soldering station now.
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2020, 07:05:18 pm »
I will say that the temperature reading "jitters a lot" i.e. moves around very often but only up and down by 10C

[EDITED, corrected]

That might be 3.3v regulator / 3.3v rail, which (generally speaking) is something depended upon by bother the op-amp and the ADC. Which seems to be U2 (a jw5026). And yep... these 'jw5026' are a switching regulator. So indeed.... that may be the reason. Actually I am not sure (myself) if that is the reason. Still gathering information. However that is what other people seem to have remarked elsewhere.

Source: https://github.com/dreamcat4/t12-t245-controllers-docs/blob/master/controllers/stm32-t12-oled/v2.1s-and-Ve2.1S/KSGER%20STM32%20Ver2_1S%20schematic%20rev%201_floobydust.pdf

What we do know for certain is that the 3v3 rail on the *known good quality* 'v2.1' original hardware. Which is not what you have (I know because I have the exact same). The original 3v3 regulator is a different one. Before they started meddling around changing things. You would think a subsequent PCB revision would result in an improved end product, wouldn't you eh? Well not here.

This schematic indicates an ST LD117 (ld117as18tr to be exact).

Source: https://github.com/dreamcat4/t12-t245-controllers-docs/blob/master/controllers/stm32-t12-oled/v2.0-and-v2.1-original/r1/iron.pdf

However photos show instead of that a MaxLinear SPX2954. Which seem to be a similar type of device (LDO with similar characteristics).

It is a different sized package and with more heatsinking around it. Which suggests that it's a liner style VRM. Generates more heat? IDK how much. I includes in the datasheet a schematic, and looks quite simple design. It also advertises 'reject 75db from input supply'. So that might also be a reason why it was originally selected to begin with. IDK.

Your PCB might not be designed to cope with these other type of 3.3v regulator. Might need to be be an 'off board' mod. Still... fairly easy though. I suggest also that maybe these original component are not so easy to source / get ahold of? Maybe an older design?

Well if those cannot be sourced so easily then there may now be other suitable (not switching) 3v3 regulators, with a large enough drop-down from '24v' to '3v3'. That can be used instead of that one.


BTW @floobydust please get me your original .sch file for your schematic. At least 3 known hardware variants have been identified. And they are slightly different from each other. So really it would be nice to edit your schematic to fully document those variants. Especially this is useful for help identifying any smaller differences which might affect compatibility (or not) with the v2.1s branch of the Open Source Firmware (PTDreamer fork).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 07:21:34 pm by dreamcat4 »
 

Offline wf789

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Re: Brand New KSGER T12 Glowing Red
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2020, 05:25:57 pm »
I will say that the temperature reading "jitters a lot" i.e. moves around very often but only up and down by 10C

[EDITED, corrected]


Thanks for the infos. Well I've been using it for a few hours and the temperature is fine now. It's not jumping around but is stable! I think I will leave it as is, as it's working great.
 


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