Cerwin Vega 280 SE crossover recap !

[guizmo1967]

Hello,

I want to recap my CV 280 SE crossover but I have a question ! I supposed the three big yellow components are capacitors but why the markings 5K 250V or 3.5K 200V ??

Usually capacitors are in microfarad ?? What are they if not capacitors ?

Thanks for your help !

[zerowatts]

Nope, those are resistors! 5K and 3K are the resistance values, 5000 and 3000 ohms respectively.

But yes, Farad is the unit used to measure capacitance.

200 and 250 V are of course the rated voltages for the resistors.

Hope it helps, good luck!

[floobydust]

Those are (yellow) mylar film capacitors and don't dry out like electrolytics, I would not replace them unless they are cracked. TBH the crossover looks fine and I would leave it alone.
I believe K here means uF, so there are two of 5uF 250V and 3.3uF 250V and not sure of the markings on the smaller ones. The power resistors are square and cement coloured.
Solen Quebec has a very good film cap lineup for crossover networks but their prices might be a bit crazy now.
Mouser offerings.
Polypropylene: Nichicon MPH series, Kemet C4G. I never liked Panasonic ECQ.
But these are all bigger and a PITA to mount so they don't fall off and buzz and rattle. A 400V part is way overkill.

[guizmo1967]

Well guys you got me confuse !!

zerowatts says they are resistors and floobydust says they are capacitors ??

resistors have resistance value and sometime wattage marking on them.

Capacitors have capacitance values, usually in microfarad and voltage marking on them.

So which one of you guys is right

[beatman]

yellow ones is film capacitors.the white one rectangular is resistor.

[floobydust]

You need capacitors in a crossover network and... spot them. Two for the midrange, one for the tweeter...

[Electro Detective]

I'm betting those components are still near new and up to spec.

I would leave the circuit as is, and gently heat up that glue and pick away gently, and remove all of it.

There is a good chance the amber glue acts as bridge between the components

The speakers don't know what's going on    due to shifting crossover frequencies and other headaches
as the glue changes characteristics due to tempreature and the load (audio) pumped through

Lose the glue and use a neutral rubber silicone or anything stable and not conductive

A few zip ties or cable ties can't hurt, especially to secure the flapping wires 


If it was mine and the components are solid on the board once the glue is gone, I would not bother and call it job done. 

Your speakers will thank you for freeing them from classic 'idiot glue' slavery and serve you happily! 

[Haenk]

I'd say there is likely one bipolar electrolytic, which might or might not went dry. Without LCR meter, replacing it cannot hurt. Leave the other parts alone, they are really unlikely to need replacement.
(yellow foiled aluminium can on the right PCB, middle/right, brighter yellow than the film caps)

[CaptDon]

ZeroWatts, you are so wrong, they are not resistors!! Ever seen a resistor with a voltage rating printed on it? Those are standard mylar caps non-polarized and found in nearly every passive crossover. Really?

[Gyro]

I'd say there is likely one bipolar electrolytic, which might or might not went dry. Without LCR meter, replacing it cannot hurt. Leave the other parts alone, they are really unlikely to need replacement.
(yellow foiled aluminium can on the right PCB, middle/right, brighter yellow than the film caps)

No, I think that's a film one too. I suspect that it is relying on the natural HF roll-off of the bass driver rather than electrically crossing it over (there's no heavy inductor either, just the small air cored ones).

Cerwin Vega are one of those US brands that favour in your face bass over sublety.

[themadhippy]

I always thought K on a capacitor meant 1000pf,but 5000pf  seems a bit low unless your crossing over for bats

A few zip ties or cable ties can't hurt,

make sure the locking tongue aint metal though as it may upset the delicate magnetic fields,ive tied  the compounds on my crossovers down with string to avoid such issues

[coromonadalix]

the yellow are capacitors the grayish rectangle ones are resistor

You dont need to recap theses crossovers     i was an audio tech

cerwin vega are basic speakers,  done tons of voice coils kits / and redo the speakers / supension foams  etc ... in them, they are easy to saturate and get voice coils problems

If you need to test speakers, you need an amplifier with an audio generator, you test the resonances frequencies and he full bandwith passing thru the crossover

i satrt at very low frequency like 1 hz or lower to see the sub woofer movement and hear if it scratch in a way and frequency up  ....

some members here are totally wrong

[guizmo1967]

Thank you for all your feedbacks !!

The reason why I wanted to recap those crossover is because one of the tweeter (left speaker) seems weaker than the other !! To rule out the amp as the problem, I switch speakers and now the weaker tweeter is the left one, so definitely speaker related !

I removed all tweeters, mids and woofers to measure resistance and the tweeters are equal, mids are equal and woofer are equal in resistance !!

There are two pots, one to adjust the tweeter and one for the midrange.

What do you think could be the problem ? Potentiometer, capacitor or the glue between components ? Where would you start ?

5K and 3.5K on those capacitors means what ?   5000 micro or nano or pico farad ??

I'm betting those components are still near new and up to spec.

I would leave the circuit as is, and gently heat up that glue and pick away gently, and remove all of it.

There is a good chance the amber glue acts as bridge between the components

The speakers don't know what's going on    due to shifting crossover frequencies and other headaches
as the glue changes characteristics due to tempreature and the load (audio) pumped through

Lose the glue and use a neutral rubber silicone or anything stable and not conductive

A few zip ties or cable ties can't hurt, especially to secure the flapping wires 


If it was mine and the components are solid on the board once the glue is gone, I would not bother and call it job done. 

Your speakers will thank you for freeing them from classic 'idiot glue' slavery and serve you happily! 

I will remove the glue, good advise

[zerowatts]

  I'm sorry, stupid mistake. Please ignore my comment above. Those are capacitors indeed.

Voltage rating are for capacitors, resistors have wattage/power ratings.

As mentioned, those are film capacitors. I do not have much experience with those. And a crossover circuit has to have capacitors (reactive element) in them, so it could never be resistors as I previosly mentioned.

guizmo1967 please disregard what I have said above, I was indeed wrong, rookie mistake

I am still learning, sorry guys

Cheers!

[floobydust]

The rheostat control is likely for adjusting the tweeter level, check how it is set compared to the other channel. It might be set lower in the left speaker. These can get oxidized too, so rotating the control back and forth a few times can fix that.

Otherwise I would leave the crossovers alone, don't blame the capacitors.

[themadhippy]

And a crossover circuit has to have capacitors

theoretically   you could just use inductors

[guizmo1967]

The rheostat control is likely for adjusting the tweeter level, check how it is set compared to the other channel. It might be set lower in the left speaker. These can get oxidized too, so rotating the control back and forth a few times can fix that.

Do you mean when both tweeter knobs are in the middle and then measuring resistance directly at the rheostat with a multimeter, to check if they have the same value ??

If you look at the picture, the potentiometer for the tweeter has a resistor and a capacitor across it. Do you think the cap may be faulty, that's why the difference between both tweeter ??

I did rotate the control back and forth a few times but did not Deoxit them yet !

5K and 3.5K on those capacitors means what ?   5000 micro or nano or pico farad ??

No one answered this question yet !!!

[beatman]

it looks like  5μf.

[floobydust]

I said in Post #2 they are 5uF and 3.3uF. Quit blaming the capacitors lol.
For the tweeter which seems quieter than the other, also check polarity of the tweeter and midrange is correct or at least the speakers match. If one is out of phase, the sound field will be weird, stereo image off to one side and freq. response not so great. I'd check DC resistance of just the tweeter to see if matches the other as well.

[Electro Detective]

I will remove the glue, good advise

I count 5 capacitors, 3 brick style resistors, 2 coils/inductors, 1 variable resistor/rheostat,

and what looks like a small black switch = does everyone concur?   

Again, ALL the glue has to go, or it can stay but at the least cut away where the glue joins components,
this will save time and stress, and no one will see (or care about) the cuts once back in the speaker box

Next is to check all the soldering by tugging/pulling on joins gently to see if they just snap off, or changes in sound

The solder may look great, but usually the assembly line people do not clean to prep the components
and just overheat and pray the flux 'grips'.
Add to this dirty crust on the soldering iron tips that are not sponge wiped, crap  that goes into those bulky solder joints.

Over time all this unnecessary rush rush halfassed assembly procedure are a FAIL waiting to happen over time,
and does no favors to people that appreciate a decent balanced audio sound. 

I have had issues like this with cheap and big dollar crossovers in the past,
and pulled and jiggled the wiring whilst running audio and constant and swept frequencies, 
listening to the speakers etc for 'changes'.

One time, the best looking shiniest solder joint on an expensive pro crossover board, just broke off with no force at all.
The flux underneath was holding it together and before that the sound was changing as the wires were moved or by tapping on the board etc

Other times the wire/s just pull out of the joints, or wire strands burnt to oblivion, or tarnished and 'fluxified' (?!!) under the joint and not obvious.

It's quite likely many great sounding passive speakers past and present, regardless of price (and audiofool bs),
were wired and soldered correctly, and polarities checked and verified, especially the tweeters and high midrange etc
or some got it right by chance. 

Manufacturers balls about with designs and marketing, and yes some mean well because they like audio and want the company to get a rep and make money etc, 
but drop the ball with clumsy dumbass assembly practices,
policies usually driven by company buyout merge-tards and their clueless math junkie bean counters

Maybe I should thank such corporat clowns, for the unwanted encouragement to learn electronics
to fix their 'get it out the door..' arrogant production attitudes, for products I paid good money for,
so once sorted properly by me, I could finally crack a beer, relax and listen to the audio
without figuring what's not right, or maybe wrong purchase decisions, issues with my hearing,
left is louder or right is quieter, or vice versa 

failing speaker drivers, the CD player and amp are rooted,

perhaps mice and cockroaches have set up shop via the speaker ports,

or perhaps the recording people blundered the mixdown (unlikely..) 

maybe I should sell the car or refinance to buy a couple of meters of audiofool grade cable too 
so I don't lose any more nano-Bells of sound   

 
 

[Gyro]

I will remove the glue, good advise

I count 5 capacitors, 3 brick style resistors, 2 coils/inductors, 1 variable resistor/rheostat,

and what looks like a small black switch = does everyone concur?   

Again, ALL the glue has to go, or it can stay but at the least cut away where the glue joins components,
this will save time and stress, and no one will see (or care about) the cuts once back in the speaker box

Next is to check all the soldering by tugging/pulling on joins gently to see if they just snap off, or changes in sound

The solder may look great, but usually the assembly line people do not clean to prep the components
and just overheat and pray the flux 'grips'.
Add to this dirty crust on the soldering iron tips that are not sponge wiped, crap  that goes into those bulky solder joints.

Over time all this unnecessary rush rush halfassed assembly procedure are a FAIL waiting to happen over time,
and does no favors to people that appreciate a decent balanced audio sound. 

I have had issues like this with cheap and big dollar crossovers in the past,
and pulled and jiggled the wiring whilst running audio and constant and swept frequencies, 
listening to the speakers etc for 'changes'.

One time, the best looking shiniest solder joint on an expensive pro crossover board, just broke off with no force at all.
The flux underneath was holding it together and before that the sound was changing as the wires were moved or by tapping on the board etc

Other times the wire/s just pull out of the joints, or wire strands burnt to oblivion, or tarnished and 'fluxified' (?!!) under the joint and not obvious.

It's quite likely many great sounding passive speakers past and present, regardless of price (and audiofool bs),
were wired and soldered correctly, and polarities checked and verified, especially the tweeters and high midrange etc
or some got it right by chance. 

Manufacturers balls about with designs and marketing, and yes some mean well because they like audio and want the company to get a rep and make money etc, 
but drop the ball with clumsy dumbass assembly practices,
policies usually driven by company buyout merge-tards and their clueless math junkie bean counters

Maybe I should thank such corporat clowns, for the unwanted encouragement to learn electronics
to fix their 'get it out the door..' arrogant production attitudes, for products I paid good money for,
so once sorted properly by me, I could finally crack a beer, relax and listen to the audio
without figuring what's not right, or maybe wrong purchase decisions, issues with my hearing,
left is louder or right is quieter, or vice versa 

failing speaker drivers, the CD player and amp are rooted,

perhaps mice and cockroaches have set up shop via the speaker ports,

or perhaps the recording people blundered the mixdown (unlikely..) 

maybe I should sell the car or refinance to buy a couple of meters of audiofool grade cable too 
so I don't lose any more nano-Bells of sound   

 
 

Wow, where did all that come from? 

The glue is there to stop the components rattling. Those crossovers are almost air wired, just a few rivets in the fibreboard. I can't see it noticably bridging  any connections and as for it not bridging the insulated packaging bodies of components!   Even then, it's a speaker crossover, not a preamp or an electrometer!

If you remove all the glue, you'll inevitably damage the outer plastic of the capacitors by pulling it or scraping it off. You'll only have to replace it with more glue anyway to keep the assembly structurally sound enough to be inside a speaker cabinet. You can check the solder joints without removing the glue.

This no-glue thing is just more audiophoolery!


EDIT:

I count 5 capacitors, 3 brick style resistors, 2 coils/inductors, 1 variable resistor/rheostat, and what looks like a small black switch = does everyone concur?   

No, there's another pot hiding under the 15R resistor on the left or the picture.

[jonpaul]

As audio designer since 1970s, I can say that the capacitors are the yellow cylenders, values not pf but between  100nf...100 uF.
Wirewound resistors are gray square crossed section parts.

tweeters often get damaged by overloaded power, transients and excessive low frequency
This is a low end consumer Cerwin Vega, mass production not audiophile

99% chance all capacitors and resistance are fine. Xover is not the issue.
Buy, or borrow a  VOM and test the resistance, some VOM also  have a capacity test.

The tweeters can be checked with an audio oscillator, just sweep freq 1 kHz..20 kHz listen for clear or weak, distorted tone.

Jon

[Jeff eelcr]

The brown glue used does not look like the type that becomes conductive.
An ohmmeter can test the glue to find out.
Jeff

[james_s]

What fault are you experiencing that you think replacing capacitors will solve? I would more likely suspect one of the drivers themselves as I don't see any electrolytic capacitors in the crossovers.

[srb1954]

Those are (yellow) mylar film capacitors and don't dry out like electrolytics, I would not replace them unless they are cracked. TBH the crossover looks fine and I would leave it alone.
I believe K here means uF, so there are two of 5uF 250V and 3.3uF 250V and not sure of the markings on the smaller ones. The power resistors are square and cement coloured.

The value is assumed to be in uF but the manufacturers could have been slightly less lazy and actually printed a 'u' after the number to remove any doubt.

The K stands for the tolerance - 10%.