| Electronics > Repair |
| Charging by the hour is unfair! |
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| SteveThackery:
--- Quote from: Smokey on July 06, 2024, 08:54:49 pm --- --- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 05:33:22 pm ---... Well, guys, I think I'm about talked out... ... Nothing more to say, is there? --- End quote --- .... then immediately makes three more posts... --- End quote --- 😄😄 Touche! I felt it would be discourteous to ignore those posts. |
| David_AVD:
--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 06:44:31 pm ---The idea that even when you get things wrong, it's the customer that takes the hit, never the repairer. That just ain't right. --- End quote --- Hmmm... Your take on "things go wrong" seems to include "repair is not viable / possible". How is this the repairers fault? It's your item and you asked someone to look at it. |
| fzabkar:
--- Quote from: David_AVD on July 06, 2024, 10:18:36 pm --- --- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 06:44:31 pm ---The idea that even when you get things wrong, it's the customer that takes the hit, never the repairer. That just ain't right. --- End quote --- Hmmm... Your take on "things go wrong" seems to include "repair is not viable / possible". How is this the repairers fault? It's your item and you asked someone to look at it. --- End quote --- I don't think I've ever been asked to "look" at a faulty item except with a view to providing a quote for its repair. So far I haven't charged for quotes, and I can't foresee a situation where I might need to. There have been occasions where I've overestimated the amount of labour and cost of parts, and I have actually reduced the final invoice by a corresponding amount. But I don't ever recall asking the customer to eat the cost of my underestimates, and there have been plenty. As for non-viable repairs, how is that the client's fault? You are the expert, so it's up to you to assess whether something is repairable, otherwise you should take the hit if it turns out not to be. Personally, my self-esteem would prevent me from accepting payment for a repair that wasn't finalised, unless the client was fully aware that this was a possibility. |
| David_AVD:
--- Quote from: fzabkar on July 06, 2024, 11:38:07 pm ---I don't think I've ever been asked to "look" at a faulty item except with a view as to providing a quote for its repair. So far I haven't charged for quotes, and I can't foresee a situation where I might need to. --- End quote --- Many years ago I never charged an upfront fee. Some people brought in their items and despite me advising them of the costs involved, they didn't collect their item (fixed or not) because they'd changed their mind in the meantime and bought a new one. Others would backtrack on our verbal agreement and not want to pay for my time. This was despite me advising them upfront about the costs involved. The upfront fee has filtered out most of the time wasters. I still get people who ask (mostly via phone) about repairing an item and once I tell them about my fees, they go no further. That's fine too. I'm not twisting their arm to book their item in and pay me. --- Quote from: fzabkar on July 06, 2024, 11:38:07 pm ---There have been occasions where I've overestimated the amount of labour and cost of parts, and I have actually reduced the final invoice by a corresponding amount. But I don't ever recall asking the customer to eat the cost of my underestimates, and there have been plenty. --- End quote --- I will often err on the high side of the range when some asks for an estimate, but I don't take that as an invitation to charge that if it ended up taking less time (or parts). I have charged customers a little more than estimated (remember I didn't quote a firm price) when things took a little longer or the job needed extra parts. You have to use common sense of course and the discussion that takes place at booking in time comes into it. It's very rare for someone to be upset at that and I do explain why the end price was higher than estimated. Sometimes it's a result of finding something else that needs doing to make the item reliable, and almost every customer has appreciated me doing that for them. --- Quote from: fzabkar on July 06, 2024, 11:38:07 pm ---As for non-viable repairs, how is that the client's fault? You are the expert, so it's up to you to assess whether something is repairable, otherwise you should take the hit if it turns out not to be. --- End quote --- I can only think that the items you work on are pretty straightforward. I work on a lot of equipment that can be difficult to diagnose, or is part of a larger system. I've been repairing electronics for over 40 years and I still don't have a crystal ball insight into every issue presented to me. See my point above about wasted time. --- Quote from: fzabkar on July 06, 2024, 11:38:07 pm ---Personally, my self-esteem would prevent me from accepting payment for a repair that wasn't finalised, unless the client was fully aware that this was a possibility. --- End quote --- That's been what I've talked about many times in this thread. Repairers need to proactively communicate with their customers. However, there are customers that simply don't listen to what you say and I've had a few over the years. Luckily it's a tiny percentage though. I've gotten better at sussing out potential trouble customers and will sometimes decline to do work for them. |
| David Aurora:
--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 05:33:22 pm --- --- Quote from: MK14 on July 06, 2024, 03:41:07 pm --- --- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 03:36:54 pm ---I've got a theory. My theory is that almost all the respondents on this thread are American. If so, it suggests that the concepts of honour and fair play don't extend across the Atlantic from my country (UK). --- End quote --- At this point, it looks like you are Troll Baiting, in the quoted section, or whatever it should be called. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_bait --- End quote --- Don't be boring by banging on about trolling. It's very tedious. If you've got nothing constructive to say, then please don't say anything. The grown-ups are having a conversation, so don't interrupt. I actually do think there is a cultural difference between the US and the UK when it comes to business practices. I am not being facetious. I think there is a much clearer and simpler attitude to profit in the US. Making a profit is considered honourable and reasonable, and even laudable. In the UK there is still a hint of "dishonour" or "greedy" about it. We are just slightly uncomfortable with the idea of profit. The distinction between making a profit and profiteering is paper-thin on this side of the pond. I think there is another cultural difference, too, around individualism. The US is far ahead of the UK in terms of individualism, and individuals looking out primarily for themselves. Making a profit from failure (as I've been talking about above) seems to be morally OK in the US, because the culture is all about putting yourself first. Others are responsible for their own success and well-being. It's not your job to look after someone who struggles to look after themselves. Since 1979 (when Thatcher was made Prime Minister) Britain has been on a journey away from collectivism, towards individualism. We've a way to go before we catch up with the US, but we are certainly going that way. Old bastards like me remember the time before Thatcher and regret the growth of individualism. Maybe this is why I might be instinctively more reluctant to make a customer pay when I haven't repaired their product. I don't know, maybe I'm talking crap. ---- Well, guys, I think I'm about talked out, and I have learned a lot from you all and taken on board many of your arguments. The one I simply cannot move on with a clear conscience is this (which I still find astonishing and hard to believe): "I am being paid to work on the customer's product, not to repair it. If it does get repaired, great, we're both happy. But if not, I'm still going to charge the same amount because it's my labour that is being paid for, not the fruits of my labour." To which my response is BULLSHIT! The customer doesn't want your labour, they want the fruits of your labour. Your business model is outrageously unfair on the customer, because you can fail, and fail, and fail again, and still go home every day with another $1,600 in your pocket. It's "Heads I win, tails you lose". Your argument that "market forces" will weed out the numpties isn't much help to those poor customers, though, is it? And if repairers are in short supply, market forces don't come into play. It is also astonishingly arrogant to believe that your time is worth $200 per hour even when you've no clue what you're doing. That's what happens when a computer expert gets an audio amp to fix. You'll still charge $200 per hour, won't you? We both know you will. Anyway, we've hit the buffers on this debate and I've come away saddened by the arrogance some people have expressed ("I'm worth $200 per hour whether I know what I'm doing or not") and some people's lack of empathy for the customer ("Fix or no fix, you owe me $1600 for the day I spent poking at your audio amp and hoping for the best"). Nothing more to say, is there? --- End quote --- At the end of the day it's this simple- your entire point is based on arguments and situations you've made up in your own mind. You've worked yourself up over imaginary events that never happened and then spent 6 pages screaming at people about how unfair the conditions in your hallucinations are. Seek help. Also, how do you not understand that every repairer who has responded to you also uses the services of other professionals? Whether it's mechanics or doctors or HVAC technicians or whatever, does it actually register in that thing inside your skull that we as repairers are also customers and therefore understand both sides of this? |
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